Display port sound

[Rem4rk4ble]

I'm wondering if I hook up my pc to my AV receiver with a displayport (pc) into an hdmi (receiver) will i be able to get 7.1 sound, and are there any circumstances like specific gpus?

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

Oh but tthat whole "compression" thing does. Back in the early days (1983) of its inception (S/PDIF over TOSLink Fiber cable)...it only transmitted at about 3 Megabits per second, so in the past, audio compression was used to compensate for the transmission speed. It has been updated for use with modern encoding formats. The larger transmission speed allows for uncompressed audio encoding if the reciever supports LPCM.

yes and 2002 it has been updated with another standard to have a higher bandwidth they called HDMI

Optical cables are not susceptible to electrical problems such as ground loops and RF interference.

Try updated in 2009
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/audio/spdif.html

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

yes and 2002 it has been updated with another standard to have a higher bandwidth they called HDMI

Optical cables are not susceptible to electrical problems such as ground loops and RF interference.

Neither is HDMI or DP; they are Digital.
The only real way these are effected is if the actual hardware has issues, which could of course happen with Optical as well. Now sure, HDMI and DP have some issues with length cables, so does USB. But in most scenarios this is not a problem, and there is even better cables and other hardware on the market to combat those issues.

One example of this; do you need ferrite on Digital Cables? Nope.

[tacoshy]

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

yes and 2002 it has been updated with another standard to have a higher bandwidth they called HDMI

Optical cables are not susceptible to electrical problems such as ground loops and RF interference.

yeah thats the only advantage... but if you read the wikipage I posted even with the current 125 Megabiot you cant do what OP wants uncompressed as you need far higher bandwidth for it...


and current HDMI has 385 times the bandwidth of toslink.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

Optical cables are not susceptible to electrical problems such as ground loops and RF interference.

yeah thats the only advantage... but if you read the wikipage I posted even with the current 125 Megabiot you cant do what OP wants uncompressed as you need far higher bandwidth for it...


and current HDMI has 385 times the bandwidth of toslink.

and what is the bitrate for DTS-HD?

DTS-HD MA supports variable bit rates up to 24.5 Mbit/s, with up to 6 channels encoded at up to 192 kHz or 8 channels and nine objects encoded at 96 kHz/24 bit.
DTS (sound system) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_(sound_system)

I thnk 125 Megabits per second of audio alone is good..how about you?

More channels means lower sample rates per channel ====>compressed /s

[tacoshy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

DTS-HD Master Audio may be transported to AV receivers in 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 channels, at lossless quality, in one of three ways depending on player and/or receiver support:[9]

Over 6, 7 or 8 RCA connectors as analog audio (not lossless), using the player's internal decoder and digital-to-analog converter (DAC).
Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6-, 7- or 8-channel linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.
Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver.

apperently not enough if calculate all channels and maximum kHz + bit-standard into account. Thats why all websites even from 2018 say Toslink cant do it and only HDMI can do this.

But feel free to find a single site that will say that toslink can do this.

[tacoshy]

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

yeah thats the only advantage... but if you read the wikipage I posted even with the current 125 Megabiot you cant do what OP wants uncompressed as you need far higher bandwidth for it...


and current HDMI has 385 times the bandwidth of toslink.

and what is the bitrate for DTS-HD?

DTS-HD MA supports variable bit rates up to 24.5 Mbit/s, with up to 6 channels encoded at up to 192 kHz or 8 channels and nine objects encoded at 96 kHz/24 bit.
DTS (sound system) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_(sound_system)

I thnk 125 Megabits per second of audio alone is good..how about you?

24.5 Megabit per channel. for 7.1 you have 8 which is already above 125 Megabit...

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

DTS-HD Master Audio may be transported to AV receivers in 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 channels, at lossless quality, in one of three ways depending on player and/or receiver support:[9]

Over 6, 7 or 8 RCA connectors as analog audio (not lossless), using the player's internal decoder and digital-to-analog converter (DAC).
Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6-, 7- or 8-channel linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.
Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver.

apperently not enough if calculate all channels and maximum kHz + bit-standard into account. Thats why all websites even from 2018 say Toslink cant do it and only HDMI can do this.

But feel free to find a single site that will say that toslink can do this.

Look...That 24.5 Megabits..that is total if you sample all the sound channels at once. It isn't 24.5Mb/s "per channel" because that is not how DTS works at all. Sample rates (KHz) need to be smaller
for 8 channels because it will cause issues invlolving crosstalk if they are any higher than that due to the amount of data being pushed through unshielded equipment (aka speaker wires).

[tacoshy]

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio



apperently not enough if calculate all channels and maximum kHz + bit-standard into account. Thats why all websites even from 2018 say Toslink cant do it and only HDMI can do this.

But feel free to find a single site that will say that toslink can do this.

You just cannot stand being proven wrong can you? lol

Look...That 24.5 Megabits..that is total if you sample all the sound channels at once. It isn't "per channel" becaus ethat is not how DTS works at all. Sample rates shrink for 8 channels because it will cause noise and static...and other issues invlolving crosstalk.

No I can but so far you have failed to prove us a single link that clearly states that toslink can do what you say it can do. Even the wikipages of toslink says that it cant run DTS-HD above 2 channels and the amusing thing is that you as cisco certified should know that enough bandwidth in theory doesnt mean that is possible in the end. you fall for every trick question and so far... We only have linked plenty sites that state that it cant...

If you want to proive me wrong then deliver a proof/link, something I couldnt deny. and unlike you, you'll find many threads where I apolgized when I was wrong.
Even the wikipages of toslink says that it cant run DTS-HD above 2 channels and the amusing thing is that you as cisco certified should know that enough bandwidth in theory doesnt mean that is possible in the end.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

You just cannot stand being proven wrong can you? lol

Look...That 24.5 Megabits..that is total if you sample all the sound channels at once. It isn't "per channel" becaus ethat is not how DTS works at all. Sample rates shrink for 8 channels because it will cause noise and static...and other issues invlolving crosstalk.

No I can but so far you have failed to prove us a single link that clearly states that toslink can do what you say it can do. Even the wikipages of toslink says that it cant run DTS-HD above 2 channels and the amusing thing is that you as cisco certified should know that enough bandwidth in theory doesnt mean that is possible in the end. you fall for every trick question and so far... We only have linked plenty sites that state that it cant...

If you want to proive me wrong then deliver a proof/link, something I couldnt deny. and unlike you, you'll find many threads where I apolgized when I was wrong.
Even the wikipages of toslink says that it cant run DTS-HD above 2 channels and the amusing thing is that you as cisco certified should know that enough bandwidth in theory doesnt mean that is possible in the end.

You provided the Wikipedia link to the TOSLINK page....

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/1693795812290487267/?ctp=13#c1693795812294910540

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

and what is the bitrate for DTS-HD?

DTS-HD MA supports variable bit rates up to 24.5 Mbit/s, with up to 6 channels encoded at up to 192 kHz or 8 channels and nine objects encoded at 96 kHz/24 bit.
DTS (sound system) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_(sound_system)

I thnk 125 Megabits per second of audio alone is good..how about you?

24.5 Megabit per channel. for 7.1 you have 8 which is already above 125 Megabit...

24.5 Megabits is LESS THAN 125 Megabits.

The 24.5 MegaBITs/second is TOTAL Used bandwidth of eith 6 channels (5.1 surround sound) of 192KHz audio at 24 bits wide...or 8 channels (7.1 surround sound) of 96.7KHz audio at 24bits wide...

TOSLINK's Only purpose today is to transmit encoded (aka DTS-HD) audio signals to a decoder (AKA SURROUND SOUND SYSTEM)...so using only 24.5 megabits per second out of the total 125 megabits per second availible....is a drop in the ocean.

SuperhighBandwidthHDMIAudio=/=superior quality because the receiver will be limited to S/PDIF transmission standards for encoded signals.

[Revelene]

Spoopy is clearly going off on a tangent, to sidestep the fact that he is absolutely wrong about being able to send full fat surround with HDMI and still have video. Just because you have video as well does not mean you get stereo only. That was a load of bull, and he knows it. Which is why he is going so hard to defend Toslink.

[tacoshy]

https://scottiestech.info/2012/10/16/hd-home-theater-setup-hdmi-vs-optical-5-1-vs-7-1-and-everything-else

I want the best HD audio possible!

Great. In that case, you CANNOT use an Optical or Coaxial cable for your audio. Well, you can, but you won’t be getting the full HD bitstream. Or, you might – kind of.

Basically, no one knows exactly, because it depends on your equipment and (apparently) the standard implemented for your S/PDIF jacks in your blu-ray player and amplifier.

What we do know is that the bandwidth for S/PDIF Optical and Coax cables is not nearly as high as that of an HDMI cable, and thus if you want the best possible quality, ditch your optical and coax cables for transporting digital audio from your blu-ray player to your amplifier.

Instead, you must use an HDMI cable for the audio connection between the blu-ray and the amp for 7.1 HD audio.

https://www.lifewire.com/dts-hd-master-audio-1846891

In addition, unlike the core DTS surround sound format, DTS-HD Master Audio (either un-decoded or decoded) cannot be transferred by Digital Optical or Digital Coaxial audio connections. The reason for this is that there is too much information, even in compressed form, for those connection options to accommodate the DTS-HD Master Audio signal information.

https://www.engadget.com/2008/01/22/how-to-actually-use-dolby-truehd-and-dts-hd/

So if you want to know how to take advantage of everything on the discs you already own, but don't know why Toslink doesn't cut it anymore (and what's so special about about HDMI 1.3), then read on, will ya?
...
You have three options for connectors that will allow you to take advantage of all the next-gen codecs; HDMI, HDMI 1.3, and discrete analog cables. The benefit of using HDMI over analog cables is obviously the digital transmission, but also, less wires as you can use one cable instead of six (5.1) or eight (7.1).

https://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-vs-optical-which-digital-audio-connection-to-use/

The basics
Both HDMI and optical pass digital audio from one device to another. Both are better than analog (the red and white cables). Both can pass multi-channel audio, like Dolby Digital. Both cables can be had pretty cheap.

The biggest difference is that HDMI can pass higher-resolution audio, including the formats found on Blu-ray: Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio. These formats can't get transmitted across optical.

http://satsun.org/audio/setup.html

SPDIF is capable of outputting either stereo PCM audio or encoded 5.1 audio. To get 5.1 audio through an SPDIF cable, your sound device needs to support Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect. Understand that Dolby and DTS are codecs just like MP3 or OGG; those Dolby and DTS codecs are used to compress lossless audio into lossy audio to save bandwidth and, as a result, costs audio quality. Due to bandwidth limitations, SPDIF cannot send uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1, only uncompressed stereo. I do not recommend using SPDIF unless that is your only option. Also, some games can have difficulty properly recognizing SPDIF devices encoding 5.1 DDL or DTSC streams which results in the game defaulting to stereo output.

HDMI

I don't think I need to post a picture of what HDMI looks like.

I would say that the best feature of HDMI is its expanded audio capabilities and its ability to improve; it is the successor of SPDIF and it can carry 7.1 PCM; no need for Dolby or DTS encoding. I have read that some games, namely those that use Audiokinetic Wwise, seem to have issues with HDMI audio connections, so this may be a reason to stick with analog or at least have the analog option available when a game does not function correctly with HDMI.

HDMI typically needs to be activated by an HDCP-compliant device on the other end (such as a TV or computer monitor) but you may be able to use an HDMI splitter (check eBay) to get HDMI to activate without connecting a monitor to the other end.

____

I could go on with links and quotes but I geuss it will be useless as you know will stake that the entire Internet is wrong... Or at least come up with another story now...

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Escrito originalmente por tacoshy:

https://scottiestech.info/2012/10/16/hd-home-theater-setup-hdmi-vs-optical-5-1-vs-7-1-and-everything-else

I want the best HD audio possible!

Great. In that case, you CANNOT use an Optical or Coaxial cable for your audio. Well, you can, but you won’t be getting the full HD bitstream. Or, you might – kind of.

Basically, no one knows exactly, because it depends on your equipment and (apparently) the standard implemented for your S/PDIF jacks in your blu-ray player and amplifier.

What we do know is that the bandwidth for S/PDIF Optical and Coax cables is not nearly as high as that of an HDMI cable, and thus if you want the best possible quality, ditch your optical and coax cables for transporting digital audio from your blu-ray player to your amplifier.

Instead, you must use an HDMI cable for the audio connection between the blu-ray and the amp for 7.1 HD audio.

https://www.lifewire.com/dts-hd-master-audio-1846891

In addition, unlike the core DTS surround sound format, DTS-HD Master Audio (either un-decoded or decoded) cannot be transferred by Digital Optical or Digital Coaxial audio connections. The reason for this is that there is too much information, even in compressed form, for those connection options to accommodate the DTS-HD Master Audio signal information.

https://www.engadget.com/2008/01/22/how-to-actually-use-dolby-truehd-and-dts-hd/

So if you want to know how to take advantage of everything on the discs you already own, but don't know why Toslink doesn't cut it anymore (and what's so special about about HDMI 1.3), then read on, will ya?
...
You have three options for connectors that will allow you to take advantage of all the next-gen codecs; HDMI, HDMI 1.3, and discrete analog cables. The benefit of using HDMI over analog cables is obviously the digital transmission, but also, less wires as you can use one cable instead of six (5.1) or eight (7.1).

https://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-vs-optical-which-digital-audio-connection-to-use/

The basics
Both HDMI and optical pass digital audio from one device to another. Both are better than analog (the red and white cables). Both can pass multi-channel audio, like Dolby Digital. Both cables can be had pretty cheap.

The biggest difference is that HDMI can pass higher-resolution audio, including the formats found on Blu-ray: Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio. These formats can't get transmitted across optical.

http://satsun.org/audio/setup.html

SPDIF is capable of outputting either stereo PCM audio or encoded 5.1 audio. To get 5.1 audio through an SPDIF cable, your sound device needs to support Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect. Understand that Dolby and DTS are codecs just like MP3 or OGG; those Dolby and DTS codecs are used to compress lossless audio into lossy audio to save bandwidth and, as a result, costs audio quality. Due to bandwidth limitations, SPDIF cannot send uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1, only uncompressed stereo. I do not recommend using SPDIF unless that is your only option. Also, some games can have difficulty properly recognizing SPDIF devices encoding 5.1 DDL or DTSC streams which results in the game defaulting to stereo output.

HDMI

I don't think I need to post a picture of what HDMI looks like.

I would say that the best feature of HDMI is its expanded audio capabilities and its ability to improve; it is the successor of SPDIF and it can carry 7.1 PCM; no need for Dolby or DTS encoding. I have read that some games, namely those that use Audiokinetic Wwise, seem to have issues with HDMI audio connections, so this may be a reason to stick with analog or at least have the analog option available when a game does not function correctly with HDMI.

HDMI typically needs to be activated by an HDCP-compliant device on the other end (such as a TV or computer monitor) but you may be able to use an HDMI splitter (check eBay) to get HDMI to activate without connecting a monitor to the other end.

____

I could go on with links and quotes but I geuss it will be useless as you know will stake that the entire Internet is wrong... Or at least come up with another story now...

Basically, no one knows exactly, because it depends on your equipment and (apparently) the standard implemented for your S/PDIF jacks in your blu-ray player and amplifier.

[Rem4rk4ble]

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

Escrito originalmente por Bad_Motha:

Nope again.

The Receiver will decode all your surround sound and spit it out through Speakers.
WTF you think those receivers cost so dam much for? You think even a $250 Sound Card is better? You're seriously joking.

The speakers I am talking about are the ones that hook into the 3.5mm headphone jacks. Unencoded sounds do not get sent digitally as surround sound. Stereo Recievers DECODE only.

my speakers dont hook into 3.5mm audio jack, I use a copper wire connection to my receiver, there is no way to hhok them directly to my pc

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

Escrito originalmente por Revelene:

The OP is going to use HDMI! Holy crap, you are giving me a headache.

You are missing the point that the only way to use HDMI is to use 1 device (a GPU) to transmit both audio and video. This means that the sound will betransmitted through the TV as a passthrough to the reciever. That will cause the didigtal sound to DOWNSAMPLE to 2.0 Surround sound.

This requires one feed per device. 1 Feed for the audio from the audio chipset or from an audio card, 1 videio feed from the GPU.

It keeps everyhting separated as the OP wants it to be.


They are using HDMI to connect to the TV....for display puroses only....

I would only receive downsampling if I connected my receiver to my tv. That would mean 1 output being used on my GPU. I want 2. I have already used that method to attempt to bypass the black screens but I had already nptioced it was 2 channel so I reverted. I do not plan on using ARC nor will I ever use arc in that way.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Escrito originalmente por Goose Kaboose:

Escrito originalmente por The Spoopy Kitteh:

You are missing the point that the only way to use HDMI is to use 1 device (a GPU) to transmit both audio and video. This means that the sound will betransmitted through the TV as a passthrough to the reciever. That will cause the didigtal sound to DOWNSAMPLE to 2.0 Surround sound.

This requires one feed per device. 1 Feed for the audio from the audio chipset or from an audio card, 1 videio feed from the GPU.

It keeps everyhting separated as the OP wants it to be.


They are using HDMI to connect to the TV....for display puroses only....

I would only receive downsampling if I connected my receiver to my tv. That would mean 1 output being used on my GPU. I want 2. I have already used that method to attempt to bypass the black screens but I had already nptioced it was 2 channel so I reverted. I do not plan on using ARC nor will I ever use arc in that way.

Trust me. I was just talking with Bad_Motha about all this.

For simplicity sake, you are better off using two seprate devices for this. TOSLink is more than caapable to run purely an audio signal through 7.1 surround sound.

This sucker has all the inputs you ever need for the audio connection.
https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-System-Preamp/dp/B004275EO4

This way you can use the speaker (read headphone) 7.1 surround output thorugh digfital encoding.

Furthermore, it has an easy to use interface quite similar to the one I use ffor my Sound Blaster Omni ;-)


You only need 1 input from the GPU and that is for Video. Separating the two out will allow you to have a redundancy if one of them fails. And you only need 1 input from the audio device..that is far simplar to set up.