Best DAC converter up to 150€

[CordisDia]

I would like to enchant my sound, vendor in Sennheiser store suggested me i should consider getting DAC converter .
Is there anything good at 150€ price range ?

[Revelene]

Цитата допису igloosfolly:

You see that high end stereo in the corner with a headphone plug thats your best bet. See if you can connect with a optical cable. Fiio is bottom of the barrel audio better suited to a phone amp. Look up RA1 amp and build your own with a Burr Brown for twenty bucks in a cigar box. If you have money to spend Schiit is pretty good stuff. http://diyaudioprojects.blogspot.com/2007/08/grado-ra1-headphone-amplifier.html

While I definitely agree that getting away from the PC is the best idea for audio quality, it is not a good suggestion for someone on a gaming forum. They are quite literally going to be using the PC. Good idea, but unfortunately impossible for one to entirely get away from.

Why optical specifically? USB can do more. Even HDMI. For a home stereo setup, I'd recommend HDMI, so you can actually get more than 2 channels uncompressed.

FiiO isn't that bad. Great bang for the buck, actually. The E10K is very popular, and for good reason. All the audiophile forum nerds will have it has a recommendation under $100.

That DIY idea covers amplification, which is a great idea, but it isn't a DAC. Sure, he could dive into DIY and make his own DAC/AMP... but I have my doubts on the likelyhood of that happening from these discussion boards.

[igloosfolly]

Optical because it transmits clean and most motherboards have optical out. Optical can transmit multible channels.Headphones use two channels. The DAC chip is built into the motherboard and more than likely into any modern reciever.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Here's my external audio card/amplifier...
600 ohm headphone amplifier and 100db Signal to Noise ratio.
https://g.co/kgs/xhz3QU

[Revelene]

Цитата допису igloosfolly:

Optical because it transmits clean and most motherboards have optical out. Optical can transmit multible channels.Headphones use two channels. The DAC chip is built into the motherboard and more than likely into any modern reciever.

Optical isn't really anything special. Anything more than two channels will be compressed, so for a decent stereo setup, your best bet is HDMI for full uncompressed sound.

Toslink (optical) is fine for stereo, but USB does it better, offering higher bit rates. Instead of just typical SPDIF output, USB is capable of driver interface and allowing for external DAC to support high fidelity file decoding and other features.

For someone with headphones, getting an external DAC/AMP that connects via USB is the best option. Using Toslink would be a disadvantage.

[igloosfolly]

And there you have it one mans opinion. My suggestions work and cost the least amount of money to impliment end of story.

[Revelene]

Цитата допису igloosfolly:

And there you have it one mans opinion. My suggestions work and cost the least amount of money to impliment end of story.

End of story? I can discuss with you on your comments. This is a discussion board. If you don't feel like discussing, then feel free to stop at any time. Nothing wrong with a civil discussion, especially when it is absolutely on topic and helps the OP.

[Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism]

I too think a DAC + AMP is what you want, even though combined.
Fiio E10K has already been mentioned. One could also get something like the Creative AE 5 soundcard.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Цитата допису Revelene:

Цитата допису igloosfolly:

Optical because it transmits clean and most motherboards have optical out. Optical can transmit multible channels.Headphones use two channels. The DAC chip is built into the motherboard and more than likely into any modern reciever.

Optical isn't really anything special. Anything more than two channels will be compressed, so for a decent stereo setup, your best bet is HDMI for full uncompressed sound.

Toslink (optical) is fine for stereo, but USB does it better, offering higher bit rates. Instead of just typical SPDIF output, USB is capable of driver interface and allowing for external DAC to support high fidelity file decoding and other features.

For someone with headphones, getting an external DAC/AMP that connects via USB is the best option. Using Toslink would be a disadvantage.

TOSLink is digital signal. It can channel 7.1 chanel's of 24bit 96Khz Audio. DTS-HD and Dolby Digital Live work natively with it. The signal is clean, travels at the speed of light...and is capable of a wide variety of audio modes.

[Revelene]

Цитата допису The Spoopy Kitteh:

Цитата допису Revelene:

Optical isn't really anything special. Anything more than two channels will be compressed, so for a decent stereo setup, your best bet is HDMI for full uncompressed sound.

Toslink (optical) is fine for stereo, but USB does it better, offering higher bit rates. Instead of just typical SPDIF output, USB is capable of driver interface and allowing for external DAC to support high fidelity file decoding and other features.

For someone with headphones, getting an external DAC/AMP that connects via USB is the best option. Using Toslink would be a disadvantage.

TOSLink is digital signal. It can channel 7.1 chanel's of 24bit 96Khz Audio. DTS-HD and Dolby Digital Live work natively with it. The signal is clean, travels at the speed of light...and is capable of a wide variety of audio modes.

It cannot do it uncompressed. Might want to look into the format that Toslink uses, called S/PDIF. It cannot do anything over 2 channels, without compression.

If you are running a surround sound setup, then HDMI is the way to go for uncompressed audio.

For stereo, it doesn't matter, as Toslink can handle it without compression, but it cannot handle high fidelity format files natively. USB allows for more functionality.

There is a reason why all external DACs are USB first, and might have Toslink on the side as an option with limited feature set.

[Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism]

7 channel 24 bit 96 kHz would be 16 mbps I assume

TOSLINK Wikipedia entry says riginally 3.1 mbps (2*20*48000 = 1.9 mbps) but now 125 mbps but I assume it depend on what the devices are capable of and if one can't assume more than 3.1 mbps / 2 channel 48 kHz 20 bit) then that's how it is.

My understanding of surround into head-phones though is that unless it's something like Dolby Atmos original source it will have the audio already mixed into some specific channels and the same for games if you choose 5.1 or 7.1 but then it's already too late and the sound had already been mixed and trying to blend it into stereo will just be wrong. Alternatively though you can in the case of a game just let the game engine mix it into stereo channel by itself using whatever method it uses.

[Revelene]

Цитата допису Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism:

7 channel 24 bit 96 kHz would be 16 mbps I assume

TOSLINK Wikipedia entry says riginally 3.1 mbps (2*20*48000 = 1.9 mbps) but now 125 mbps but I assume it depend on what the devices are capable of and if one can't assume more than 3.1 mbps / 2 channel 48 kHz 20 bit) then that's how it is.

My understanding of surround into head-phones though is that unless it's something like Dolby Atmos original source it will have the audio already mixed into some specific channels and the same for games if you choose 5.1 or 7.1 but then it's already too late and the sound had already been mixed and trying to blend it into stereo will just be wrong. Alternatively though you can in the case of a game just let the game engine mix it into stereo channel by itself using whatever method it uses.

Toslink still can either do two channel uncompressed, or 5.1/7.1 compressed. It is even in that very same wiki article that you read.

Talking about actual channels, not emulation. Headphones with surround use emulation, which is not the same thing. It is still a stereo signal. In this case, both Toslink and USB can handle the stereo signal uncompressed just fine. But you will not find an external DAC that uses Toslink as primary over USB.

USB also offers more direct control, with native support for formats other than PCM, more direct audio control via driver, etc.

The only advantage over USB that Toslink has is that is doesn't have to possible interference from power draw, but even then, there are many that get power not from the USB and rather from a walwart.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Цитата допису Revelene:

Цитата допису Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism:

7 channel 24 bit 96 kHz would be 16 mbps I assume

TOSLINK Wikipedia entry says riginally 3.1 mbps (2*20*48000 = 1.9 mbps) but now 125 mbps but I assume it depend on what the devices are capable of and if one can't assume more than 3.1 mbps / 2 channel 48 kHz 20 bit) then that's how it is.

My understanding of surround into head-phones though is that unless it's something like Dolby Atmos original source it will have the audio already mixed into some specific channels and the same for games if you choose 5.1 or 7.1 but then it's already too late and the sound had already been mixed and trying to blend it into stereo will just be wrong. Alternatively though you can in the case of a game just let the game engine mix it into stereo channel by itself using whatever method it uses.

Toslink still can either do two channel uncompressed, or 5.1/7.1 compressed. It is even in that very same wiki article that you read.

Talking about actual channels, not emulation. Headphones with surround use emulation, which is not the same thing. It is still a stereo signal. In this case, both Toslink and USB can handle the stereo signal uncompressed just fine. But you will not find an external DAC that uses Toslink as primary over USB.

USB also offers more direct control, with native support for formats other than PCM, more direct audio control via driver, etc.

The only advantage over USB that Toslink has is that is doesn't have to possible interference from power draw, but even then, there are many that get power not from the USB and rather from a walwart.

The Creative Soundblaster Omni is a USB external Audio card and DAC.

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-omni-surround-5-1#buy

[Revelene]

Цитата допису The Spoopy Kitteh:

The Creative Soundblaster Omni is a USB external Audio card and DAC.

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-omni-surround-5-1#buy

Okay. Your point? It had nothing to do with what you quoted.

BTW, DAC and sound card are one in the same, so saying it is a "USB external Audio card and DAC" is redundant.

You've mentioned this DAC/Amp 3 times now. We get it, you like it. But no one looking for quality audio should be looking at anything branded with a gaming brand. Creative caters to gamers, not audio enthusiasts.

[igloosfolly]

Take a good look at higher end DAC/AMP say a Denon DA300SB see those 2 toslinks on the back for input right next to the USB input . Thats a 400 dollar piece of hardware. http://audio.com.pl/pics/newsy/denon_da_300usb_dac_fot1.jpg TOS link can work with 7.1 ,5.1 . Sherwood Newcastle can connect every componet via Tos but hey what do they know they only invented Dolby. One more tidbit Burr Brown is a Dac/Amp now owned by Texas Intruments you can find it in the brands that dont come from best buy. The other high end Chip is Wolfson. You can use more than one Dac chip for a cleaner sound the same way you use two OPA chips to increase output levels. Oh look the soundblaster has optical out I wonder why. Eat your heart out Fiio.

[Revelene]

Цитата допису igloosfolly:

Take a good look at higher end DAC/AMP say a Denon DA300SB see those 2 toslinks on the back for input right next to the USB input . Thats a 400 dollar piece of hardware. http://audio.com.pl/pics/newsy/denon_da_300usb_dac_fot1.jpg TOS link can work with 7.1 ,5.1 . Sherwood Newcastle can connect every componet via Tos but hey what do they know they only invented Dolby. One more tidbit Burr Brown is a Dac/Amp now owned by Texas Intruments you can find it in the brands that dont come from best buy. The other high end Chip is Wolfson. You can use more than one Dac chip for a cleaner sound the same way you use two OPA chips to increase output levels. Oh look the soundblaster has optical out I wonder why. Eat your heart out Fiio.

I never said it didn't work with 5.1/7.1... It just cannot do it uncompressed. If you don't believe me, go look up the Toslink standard yourself.

Burr Brown is a line of DAC and amps, yes. Not sure why you are reiterating on this point again. You already made the suggestion of DIY. Not a bad suggestion, to be honest, just doubtful that would be a viable option for many on these particular forums.

Creative and Fiio both offer options with optical... Not sure your point. Fiio has a wide range of offerings, moreso than Creative. Actual time and effort put into developing a sound signature, unlike Creative. Fiio may be a Chinese company, but they listen to the audiophile forums.

Optical isn't that great. If you knew the standard and what it really was, then you'd understand why USB is better. USB is capable of handling high bit high frequency PCM, DSD, and other high fidelity lossless formats NATIVELY.

Optical has to have the signal carried compressed, so you do not get the benefit of having these higher quality lossless formats.

This is only stereo we are talking about here, as neither are the best for true surround. HDMI is the best way to get all channels uncompressed.

 "can decode two channels of uncompressed lossless PCM audio or compressed 5.1/7.1 surround sound such as Dolby Digital Plus or DTS-HD High Resolution Audio. Unlike HDMI, TOSLINK does not have the bandwidth to carry the lossless versions of Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, or more than two channels of PCM audio."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOSLINK