Do surround headphones actually give convincing surround sound?

[HuesudO_spn]

First and foremost, this question must have been asked before, but I couldn't find it here. I only found this post from a guy who doesn't seem to have actually used surround headphones ever (or maybe he actually did buy some fake ones).

Second, I know how surround headphones are supossed to work, either true or virtual surround. It all boils down to how the shape of the ear changes sounds and how the brain uses those changes to estimate where a sound is coming from. But doesn't a game with a half decent sound design do that already for stereo headphones?

My current stereo headphones sound great, but they are quite old and they are scabby, literally.
I was searching around Amazon the other day and found some surprisingly good deals, like these ones[www.amazon.com]. The reviews are good, the price isn't bad at all... it all just seems too good to be true.

The way pretty much everyone uses stereo headphones and speakers to locate a sound in a 3D game is this: if you can hear it from both sides and can see it on screen, it's coming from the front; if you hear it from both sides but can't see it, it's coming from behind; if you hear it only on your right ear, it's coming from your right side. Pretty simple. You can also turn around and hear how the sound intensity changes on each side.

TL;DR: The big question is: do surround headphones actually give credible, instantaneous, directional sound?

I haven't tried surround headphones before, and I don't really know what to expect. I could buy some cheaper surround headphones to try them out first, but they may end up sounding like garbage and end up being a waste of money. And to buy some like those I linked for them to sound just like glorified stereo, I'd rather keep the ones I already have and save the money for something else.

[pasa]

In the past there were multi-driver headphones. Didn't really work out.
Now the majority have 1 driver. (what is okay, considering the improvements.)

And on 1 driver the "surround" is just a marketing cheat-word. That seem to work fine in practice, all those "7.1" bs sets sell like candy as the target audience is ignorant.

On a different tack, the sound field you experience in headphones does differ a lot -- a closed back design will inevitably compress it more than the open backs.

Those who care about sound quality avoid anything called "headset" or "gaming" like plague.

[FeilDOW]

I'm not an audiophile and find the logitech g933 works great. I find it gives good sound and the surround sound works great in VR and any other game as long as the USB dongle is in a USB 2.0 plug and not 3.0/3.1.

People around here will tell you they are junk because you can get better, unless you have a butt load of money there will likely always be something better to buy.

[Arya]

Surround Sound headphones are a gimmick. The early ones actually tried to shove a full 7.1 speaker system in, that failed because they had to use tiny little speakers - thereby wrecking the audio quality. The modern ones are a gimmick because at core they're using the same positional audio trick as any other stereo headset.

I've owned a set of both. One of the best of the original multi-speaker cans, and a more recent "7.1" "surround" headset. They both delivered worse audio and less immersion than high-quality modern Stereo headsets.

If you want a more immersive feel, try an Audiophile headset with Open Back earcups. It's the closest thing you can get to true surround sound right now.

[HuesudO_spn]

Seeing how opposed the opinions on the replies are, I think I may have expressed myself incorrectly or forgot to add something.

When I speak about headphones, I am refering to the ones with full ear covering cups, like the ones from Amazon I linked.

I know that there aren't any "real" 5.1 or 7.1 headphones, unless someone managed to pack 3 speakers, half a frontal speaker and half a subwoofer inside each ear cup.

Finally, if I wanted true surround sound and had enough money and room, I would go straight for a true 7.1 speaker system. I don't need "the best there is", I can work with something "good enough"; that's why I'm asking whether headphones like the ones I linked give a surround sound that is "good/convincing enough" or I should stick to my good old crusty stereo headphones.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από AustrAlien2010:

I'm still waiting for those headphones that are able to convey whether the sound come from above or below

In real life it's very easy to find out if a sound comes from above or below; just tilt your head. Unfortunately, in most games, your head is almost always stuck on a vertical position and you can't tilt it. Maybe you could do that in VR games?

[pasa]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HuesudO_esp:

Seeing how opposed the opinions on the replies are, I think I may have expressed myself incorrectly or forgot to add something.

Indeed the question is not very clear -- the articles you linked explain stuff pretty well, just not point ot so bluntly that the "virtual" surround is nothing but relabeling a simple lo-Q headphone. Coupled with some magic software processing that you already have in the realtek driver or can find additional software effects without committing to some particular hardware.

If you *only* look for gaming, the linked set will likely do the job just like any other cheap stuff we call "firewood". If you also want is for music and do care about how it sounds, then you have to pay up more -- and any good stereo headphone will work better for gaming too.

[Carlsberg]

Google reviews and buyer reviews, personally i favor turtle beach but i am currently using hyper x cloud 2's and i like them. Headsets that plug directly into soundcard are better then the type that convert thru a usb adapter imo.

Comfort, built in mic or seperate, positional audio, wired or wireless, etc. decide what you want then research what best fits you and your budget.

Convincing sound? The surround and positional audio from the turtle beach set i had last was excellent, in fps gaming there was no mistake in above, below or either side, with the hyper x's i get that but not to the same standard, good quality stereo sets will not give you a mic built in and will not do positional audio to the standard that gaming sets will.

[Kaihekoa]

A good pair of open-back stereo headphones is all you need for good positional audio.

[Talby]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HuesudO_esp:

Seeing how opposed the opinions on the replies are, I think I may have expressed myself incorrectly or forgot to add something.

When I speak about headphones, I am refering to the ones with full ear covering cups, like the ones from Amazon I linked.

I know that there aren't any "real" 5.1 or 7.1 headphones, unless someone managed to pack 3 speakers, half a frontal speaker and half a subwoofer inside each ear cup.

You did't leave anything out, made perfect sense once you read through it in detail.

Virtual surround relies on HRTF[en.wikipedia.org] so your brain can process the positional audio. It does not work for everyone, and for those whom it does not work well for you can tell straight away by their posts. It works very well for me and I enjoy it in games, and I feel quite badly for those that cannot process HRTFs in games and movies with straight stereo cans.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HuesudO_esp:

Finally, if I wanted true surround sound and had enough money and room, I would go straight for a true 7.1 speaker system. I don't need "the best there is", I can work with something "good enough"; that's why I'm asking whether headphones like the ones I linked give a surround sound that is "good/convincing enough" or I should stick to my good old crusty stereo headphones.

You can try software v-surround with your existing cans a few ways: through your on-board sound card control panel software (if the chip supports it), through Windows 10's "sonic" spatial format (easiest to enable), or through a 3rd party software like Razer Surround. Give one of them a try and see how you like it (or try one at a time to compare them).

EDIT - some games even have a v-sound driver built in to the audio options of the game itself, having either surround or headphone output options

Everyone trashes "gaming" branded headsets because there are so many cheap brands that use the worst quality drivers and USB DSPs to process the surround (to the point the software solutions I mentioned actually sound better) so even if half-way decent ones are available noone here will state that fact. A good example is the G430, I got one and was really impressed with the DSP in the USB stick - the positional queues were a bit smoother than Windows Sonic and the fact it supported Dolby and DTS in movies was a bonus. The headset quality was not the greatest build-wise, and listening to music was a bit of dissapointment. I gave them away and plugged in my Samson SR850s to the USB stick, it was a pretty good improvment to just about everything - the semi-open back gave the surround more depth and perception in games and movies, and music became much more enjoyable. For a mic I am using a cheap webcam which sounds pretty terrible, I should just get a cheap condenser mic and that will improve to at least "gaming" quality lol.

[HuesudO_spn]

I forgot to mention that my integrated sound card does support 8 analogue channels through 4 stereo minijacks. It also has SPDIF out, but it only outputs surround in movies encoded with dolby digital or dts. Otherwise, it's just stereo.

Some games have their own configuration for speaker setup in their options, but Windows' playback devices settings have the final word on speaker setup.

I guess the USB sound card that surround headphones have needs that games send multichannel signals for them to work in surround mode?

[Talby]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HuesudO_esp:

I forgot to mention that my integrated sound card does support 8 analogue channels through 4 stereo minijacks. It also has SPDIF out, but it only outputs surround in movies encoded with dolby digital or dts. Otherwise, it's just stereo.

Sounds like your chip may also support the vsurround modes, look for "headphone virtualization" option in the speaker setup (what mine says, YMMV). The "real" 5.1 outputs have nothing to do with the 2-channel headphone virtualization, other than the fact your chip can support surround modes at all.

If you are going to try Windows Sonic or Razer Surround, just leave the realtek output to 2-channel output L/R only then enable Sonic or Razer. To enable Sonic, right-click your speaker and select "Playback devices", then select your speakers, hit "properties" button, then under "spatial sound" just select "Windows Sonic for Headphones". Best leave one or the other enabled at a time, things may get strange when you enable both - and of course for all other options (like Razer Surround) just leave plain-old 2 channel on both your realtek and windows playback devices.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HuesudO_esp:

Some games have their own configuration for speaker setup in their options, but Windows' playback devices settings have the final word on speaker setup.

In this case, best leave all outputs to plain-old 2-channel L/R only and let the game vsurround driver do it's thing (similar to above).

This is actually one of the reasons vsurround bashers quote, that it is too complicated to have to switch the various outputs on or off, and that it's worthless, blah blah blah.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HuesudO_esp:

I guess the USB sound card that surround headphones have needs that games send multichannel signals for them to work in surround mode?

Yes exactly, they just use the DSP and software to process HRTFs to get vsurround.

[ObiSpud]

I invested in a Sennheiser 363D 7.1 surround sound nearly two years ago. It was a costly headset costing around £250 back then. I chose this set to replace my 14 year old sennheiser stereo ones which were superb but the itch to have surround sound pushed me into parting with a lot of dosh on a headset by a company that specialised in quality headsets for TV and Radio company's.

So, in comparison, the surround is actually far better than my stereo ones BUT I wouldn't say it was true surround sound nor is it that easy to notice any major difference between the two in gaming. For music you do notice a vast difference.

Advice to those who are thinking of buying a Surround headset, get over to a local shop and try out the various models on sale first. Look for the best sound and quality that suits you rather than the manufacturer and price. I say this as people's hearing does differ where one headset doesn't suit all.

[HuesudO_spn]

I finally gave in and bought some headphones for 36€. They should arrive this wednesday. I will let you know if they live up to expectations.

Also, when I speak of surround sound, I'm not talking about just a stereo source playing on all speakers, what I'm talking about is directional sound; if something explodes behind your character in a game, you hear the explosion coming from behind you, not just coming from all the speakers but just sounding more muffled.

[ObiSpud]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από HuesudO_esp:

I finally gave in and bought some headphones for 36€. They should arrive this wednesday. I will let you know if they live up to expectations.

Also, when I speak of surround sound, I'm not talking about just a stereo source playing on all speakers, what I'm talking about is directional sound; if something explodes behind your character in a game, you hear the explosion coming from behind you, not just coming from all the speakers but just sounding more muffled.

Hope they are fit for purpose :)

Trouble is directional sound is still not what I would say acceptable even with the Sennheiser surround headsets (probably others too). Yes you will get a feel for something off to your right or left but actually being able to say beyond any reasonable doubt that the sound is behind you, is very hard to determine. Even with the multiple speakers in one ear, it doesn't help as you are wearing a speaker over or on top of the ear so this can have an impact on how sound is heard. This has been my experience so far and truning a head in the direction of the sound tends to pinpoint it better. Not great but acceptable.

[pasa]

An interesting story from the past: some 25 years ago our radio had enthusiast day, and broadsact special recordings. Among them a play recorded using "artifical head". What is a special thing, really made like a human head with ears matching real anatomy, and mics set inside where the tympanic membrane.

It must be listened through headphones (preferably with eyes closed) -- and I did with the simple small on-ear pair I gor with my Fisher walkman. That had complete directional sound like you were sitting in the center of the stage. And when the actors walked around you could tell it, including behind.

What kinda proves that the simplest stereo headprone can do the trick with proper input.

[Revelene]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από FeilDOW:

I'm not an audiophile and find the logitech g933 works great. I find it gives good sound and the surround sound works great in VR and any other game as long as the USB dongle is in a USB 2.0 plug and not 3.0/3.1.

People around here will tell you they are junk because you can get better, unless you have a butt load of money there will likely always be something better to buy.

Well, obviously, yeah, you are nowhere near an audiophile, because an audiophile would not have the opinion you have. However, the typical gamer, their target consumer, would.

You can spend that same amount of money on a lot better. You don't always need more money to buy better things, you can always shop smarter.