OC phenom ii x4 965 :: Hardware and Operating Systems

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Witski Jul 15, 2019 @ 4:38am

OC phenom ii x4 965

Hi guys,here i am again :),
i want to try to OC this processor a bit to maybe 3.7 ghz.
Previously i try to oc, my computer crashes after a while when playing , i don't know much i never oc, but if that matter tomorrow ill buy a new psu from seasonic 550w 80+ bronze for 50 euro (now i have a 500w technoware free silent psu), is the psu matter in the oc process? it crashes because my psu can't keep up with it? Also i change the stock cooler for a be quiet rock slim tower cooler because the stock one was very loud even with reduced fan speed.
Im asking because tomorrow with the psu i will buy the rx 590 nitro + gold edition so i want to reduce a bit the bottleneck that come or use that gpu to it's potential a bit, (i know, i will buy a new pc piece by piece).
i also manage to undervolt the cpu, i don't remember im not at home but now it works at 1.39 instead of 1.4+volts.
Bonus question :D,
What happen if i under oc the gpu instead?
Edit: im using a amd 960GM-GS3 fx moba

Last edited by Witski; Jul 15, 2019 @ 4:47am

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Originally posted by Snow:

Originally posted by Ralf:
Originally posted by Witski:
i also manage to undervolt the cpu, i don't remember im not at home but now it works at 1.39 instead of 1.4+volts.
I ran my PII 965 @1.275V in a GA970-Ud3 moba for 5-6 years.

Man that mobo was based on 970 chipset. His is based on 760. Just a brief look on those mobos reveal big differences on the power supply/voltage regulation, so your experience is unlikely to be useful in his case.

Originally posted by Ralf:
hmmm well tonight ill try rtts with some games and lock the fps to 30 or 40 and see how well it is, especially with space engineers, it run very well with 50 to 80 fps but sometimes the cpu stutter the game and slow everything, ill try to put it on 50 or 60? that thing should stop those stutters/freezes?

As long as you don't drop below your limited number, you're expected to have almost perfect experience. I say "almost" because there's much more to this. Say, there is Skyrim. To allow open-world experience, it divides the map by tiles, just like a chess board, let's make it 5x5 board with players always standing in the 3C zone, in the middle. When you enter the 2C zone - the game has to remove all the 5A-5E, move the map so 4A becomes new 5A, and you once again end up in 3C. Now, CPU knows it should process the map so you will see it, but as the map moved a bit - there is no into about how 1A-1E should look like in CPU cache yet. So it goes - alright, there should totally be the into about this stuff in RAM, let's ask RAM. Smart games preload stuff in RAM as you move, but RAM is way slower than CPU cache, so it might be a small stutter as you move to another tile, because CPU waits for new data to move from RAM to cache. And what if the game is not that smart or there just isn't enough RAM? Then RAM asks HDD/SSD for new data, and drives are even slower than RAM, so there's a serious stutter, as waiting time is even bigger.
In fact it's way more complicated than that, because cache misses happen all the time, and 100% CPU usage never means it's actually busy doing useful stuff unless it's some benchmark. If some exact game is designed to move huge amounts of data all the time, your drives and your RAM can be the reason of stutters, so in some cases it's unavoidable.
Now, about RTSS. I can't imagine playing games without it. In-game limiters, AMD/NVidia limiters etc. all work on GPU level, but GPU is the last thing in the pipeline. To make a nice picture GPU has to get some data from CPU first, and when it gets it - it can process it really fast. Modern gaming CPU has like 10 cores executing complicated instructions, but modern gaming GPUs have over a thousand cores executing simple small instructions. That's why most people play at 99-100% GPU usage and don't care - waiting time for CPU is way bigger, and CPU bottleneck is way more noticeable. If, say, you limit your framerate to 60FPS via RTSS you're expected to have each frame processed in around 16.66ms, as 16.66ms 60 times will give you 1 second. Both CPU and GPU process frames uncontrollably and without any sync, yet the CPU is way more sensitive to task complexity. If your CPU has completed the frame in say 12.66ms - then RTSS adds a small "wait" task for the next 4ms. As GPU's processing a lot of small tasks, it's not going to introduce any stutters unless fully loaded, so it can easily process the data given by CPU in exactly 16.66ms. When it's time to make a new frame - CPU was basically just busy with waiting, not in the middle of making something, so it's ready to give a new frame just in time. And when every single frame takes the exact same time to process - the game feels really, REALLY smooth. Sure if you use typical VSync you're going to get some hiccups each time FPS is below refresh rate, i.e. 59FPS on 60Hz screen will result in screen having to show the same frame twice once per second, and without VSync you're going to have screen tearing, so the best solution is to use VSync and try to limit your FPS so the screen will show each frame exact same amount of times. With 60FPS 60Hz screen shows every frame once, with 30FPS it shows every frame 2 times, with 20FPS - 3 times for each frame etc. This or screen tearing. There are adaptive sync monitors that solve this VSync issue, but I guess you don't have one, so that's it. Also you can try ScanlineSync present in RTSS. It's still a bit of an experimental feature, but it can help a lot. It just basically controls where this tearline will appear, and moving it to the very edge makes it unnoticeable. In fact you can even move it a bit outside of the visible zone and have thing similar to adaptive VSync but without VSync's imput lag.

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Showing 1-15 of 51 comments

Snow Jul 15, 2019 @ 5:01am

PSU does matter for OC process, but most of the power is taken by graphics card, not CPU.
Put your CPU under heavy load like stress-test or CPU-limited gameplay and briefly touch your VRM zone and your north bridge. Something tells me it's hot as hell there, and that's most likely the cause of crashes.

_I_ Jul 15, 2019 @ 5:06am

the mobo makes a huge difference on how the cpu can oc
msi amd am3/+ mobo = do not overclock

that board is very poor too
https://www.overclock.net/forum/11-amd-motherboards/946407-amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database.html
asorck/asus use vrm thermal protection, but it will throttle alot since it has a very weak vrm config on the board
(plain 3phase missing the +1 for imc)
general rule is 25w/phase x3 = 75w max for cpu

965 c2 = 140w, 965 c3 = 125w, both are too much for the board to handle at stock without throttling

Last edited by _I_; Jul 15, 2019 @ 5:14am

Witski Jul 15, 2019 @ 5:14am

mh so i should not oc anything and just crank up graphic settings and lower cpu settings like aa draw distance etc?

_I_ Jul 15, 2019 @ 5:27am

id wait on the gpu and buy a better cpu/mobo
pii or fx are over 10 years old at this point

a new cpu will run circles around the pii even at much lower clocks
ryzen 2600 is a good start point for a budget gaming build

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rMVPMZ

Dwerklesberry Jul 15, 2019 @ 5:38am

I would stop investing, unfortunately the phenom's ipc is just too low, and with ever more frequent issues with newer games not supporting this cpu because of missing instruction sets, you won't even be able to start many games before they are patched, if at all. It will bottleneck a 590, you are better off letting that money earn interest in your bank account until you save up enough for a new system. Even a used i7 system is much faster and can hold you over until you can find a full replacement. The phenom was a good chip but its time is over when even old dell office machines from a dumpster can beat it.

Last edited by Dwerklesberry; Jul 15, 2019 @ 5:38am

LiMpY Jul 15, 2019 @ 5:47am

A few thoughts:
1) just leave everything at stock settings until you're sure there's no problems
2) if you want to try an OC on the cpu you have to raise it's voltage.
3) there a pile of vids on the internet about 965 OCing.

Snow Jul 15, 2019 @ 6:01am

Originally posted by Witski:
mh so i should not oc anything and just crank up graphic settings and lower cpu settings like aa draw distance etc?

Oh man I was a bit sleepy and didn't recognize u so I told u what you've already fixed lol.
Dropping CPU-related setting might help a bit, although AA is processed by the GPU so u can keep that as high as GPU will allow u. Everything related to amount and complexity of on-screen objects affects CPU usage, yeah. Although neither CPU nor the GPU bottleneck is a good thing to have. If you want smooth gameplay u might want to try limiting the framerate via RTSS at the number u can maintain for like 80% of the time. Modern consoles are heavily CPU bottlenecked so they stick to 30FPS but at 1440p/2160p because GPU allows it. That's pretty much what you want to do here, especially with new graphics card - low FPS high settings limited framerate.

Witski Jul 15, 2019 @ 6:02am

Originally posted by Dwerklesberry:
I would stop investing, unfortunately the phenom's ipc is just too low, and with ever more frequent issues with newer games not supporting this cpu because of missing instruction sets, you won't even be able to start many games before they are patched, if at all. It will bottleneck a 590, you are better off letting that money earn interest in your bank account until you save up enough for a new system. Even a used i7 system is much faster and can hold you over until you can find a full replacement. The phenom was a good chip but its time is over when even old dell office machines from a dumpster can beat it.

yes, the next buy is a ryzen 5 2600x or a newer one if cheap and a mobo b450 i think, then ram and a new case, i start with the gpu just to have a nice card to use until i get everything, i don't want to buy and let it take dust until i have all the pieces.

Snow Jul 15, 2019 @ 6:05am

Originally posted by Witski:
Originally posted by Dwerklesberry:
I would stop investing, unfortunately the phenom's ipc is just too low, and with ever more frequent issues with newer games not supporting this cpu because of missing instruction sets, you won't even be able to start many games before they are patched, if at all. It will bottleneck a 590, you are better off letting that money earn interest in your bank account until you save up enough for a new system. Even a used i7 system is much faster and can hold you over until you can find a full replacement. The phenom was a good chip but its time is over when even old dell office machines from a dumpster can beat it.

yes, the next buy is a ryzen 5 2600x or a newer one if cheap and a mobo b450 i think, then ram and a new case, i start with the gpu just to have a nice card to use until i get everything, i don't want to buy and let it take dust until i have all the pieces.

No such thing as "too powerful GPU", u can always use higher settings, so you're doing it right.

Witski Jul 15, 2019 @ 6:05am

Originally posted by Snow:
Originally posted by Witski:
mh so i should not oc anything and just crank up graphic settings and lower cpu settings like aa draw distance etc?
Oh man I was a bit sleepy and didn't recognize u so I told u what you've already fixed lol.
Dropping CPU-related setting might help a bit, although AA is processed by the GPU so u can keep that as high as GPU will allow u. Everything related to amount and complexity of on-screen objects affects CPU usage, yeah. Although neither CPU nor the GPU bottleneck is a good thing to have. If you want smooth gameplay u might want to try limiting the framerate via RTSS at the number u can maintain for like 80% of the time. Modern consoles are heavily CPU bottlenecked so they stick to 30FPS but at 1440p/2160p because GPU allows it. That's pretty much what you want to do here, especially with new graphics card - low FPS high settings limited framerate.

hey ;) so what should i do? i play only 1080p and non that modern games, i can still rock with the 750 ti, so maybe with the rx i can crank up those games even more (borderlands 2 tps, and 3 on sept 13) world of warships sometimes, space engineers now, it run 70+ fps on medium with some drops, etc, nothing really demanding, the main one will be kenshi.

#10

Snow Jul 15, 2019 @ 8:55am

Originally posted by Witski:
Originally posted by Snow:
Oh man I was a bit sleepy and didn't recognize u so I told u what you've already fixed lol.
Dropping CPU-related setting might help a bit, although AA is processed by the GPU so u can keep that as high as GPU will allow u. Everything related to amount and complexity of on-screen objects affects CPU usage, yeah. Although neither CPU nor the GPU bottleneck is a good thing to have. If you want smooth gameplay u might want to try limiting the framerate via RTSS at the number u can maintain for like 80% of the time. Modern consoles are heavily CPU bottlenecked so they stick to 30FPS but at 1440p/2160p because GPU allows it. That's pretty much what you want to do here, especially with new graphics card - low FPS high settings limited framerate.
hey ;) so what should i do? i play only 1080p and non that modern games, i can still rock with the 750 ti, so maybe with the rx i can crank up those games even more (borderlands 2 tps, and 3 on sept 13) world of warships sometimes, space engineers now, it run 70+ fps on medium with some drops, etc, nothing really demanding, the main one will be kenshi.

Well, look. Any kind of bottleneck leads to FPS drops, stutters etc. Whenever you're running a game with unlimited FPS - it runs as fast as it can, and bottleneck is unavoidable. With GPU bottleneck you experience slight input delay and hiccups, and with CPU bottleneck you experience stutters and freezes. The best thing to do is to have no bottleneck at all. Say, you're running a game at 60-80FPS, almost never dropping below 60. Use RTSS that comes with MSI Afterburner and limit the framerate to 60. Stable 60 is way better than unstable 100, and it's never stable with a bottleneck. RTSS frame limiting works by asking the CPU to wait a bit after each frame, so whenever it's time to make the next frame - it will do the job in time. Most of the frame limiters work on GPU level thus they don't fix CPU timing issues, but RTSS limiting makes every single frame take the exact same time to render, making the games WAY smoother and stable. That's how they manage to have smooth playable 30FPS on consoles, so give that a try, I bet you'll love RTSS.

Also, about Borderlands. Stay away from PhysX and draw distance settings. Those settings can drop FPS to 40 even with i7-6700k, so having a better graphics card won't do much there. But settings like ambient occlusion, resolution, antialiasing, shadow details etc. - yeah, sure. Then again MSI AB can show u CPU/GPU load so adjust your settings accordingly, to stay below 90% usage while having playable LIMITED framerate. This applies to any kind of PC and any kind of game.

Last edited by Snow; Jul 15, 2019 @ 9:01am

#11

Witski Jul 15, 2019 @ 9:09am

Originally posted by Snow:
Originally posted by Witski:
hey ;) so what should i do? i play only 1080p and non that modern games, i can still rock with the 750 ti, so maybe with the rx i can crank up those games even more (borderlands 2 tps, and 3 on sept 13) world of warships sometimes, space engineers now, it run 70+ fps on medium with some drops, etc, nothing really demanding, the main one will be kenshi.
Well, look. Any kind of bottleneck leads to FPS drops, stutters etc. Whenever you're running a game with unlimited FPS - it runs as fast as it can, and bottleneck is unavoidable. With GPU bottleneck you experience slight input delay and hiccups, and with CPU bottleneck you experience stutters and freezes. The best thing to do is to have no bottleneck at all. Say, you're running a game at 60-80FPS, almost never dropping below 60. Use RTSS that comes with MSI Afterburner and limit the framerate to 60. Stable 60 is way better than unstable 100, and it's never stable with a bottleneck. RTSS frame limiting works by asking the CPU to wait a bit after each frame, so whenever it's time to make the next frame - it will do the job in time. Most of the frame limiters work on GPU level thus they don't fix CPU timing issues, but RTSS limiting makes every single frame take the exact same time to render, making the games WAY smoother and stable. That's how they manage to have smooth playable 30FPS on consoles, so give that a try, I bet you'll love RTSS.

Also, about Borderlands. Stay away from PhysX and draw distance settings. Those settings can drop FPS to 40 even with i7-6700k, so having a better graphics card won't do much there. But settings like ambient occlusion, resolution, antialiasing, shadow details etc. - yeah, sure. Then again MSI AB can show u CPU/GPU load so adjust your settings accordingly, to stay below 90% usage while having playable LIMITED framerate. This applies to any kind of PC and any kind of game.

hmmm well tonight ill try rtts with some games and lock the fps to 30 or 40 and see how well it is, especially with space engineers, it run very well with 50 to 80 fps but sometimes the cpu stutter the game and slow everything, ill try to put it on 50 or 60? that thing should stop those stutters/freezes?

Last edited by Witski; Jul 15, 2019 @ 9:13am

#12

Ralf Jul 15, 2019 @ 10:53am

Originally posted by Witski:
i also manage to undervolt the cpu, i don't remember im not at home but now it works at 1.39 instead of 1.4+volts.

I ran my PII 965 @1.275V in a GA970-Ud3 moba for 5-6 years.

#13

_I_ Jul 15, 2019 @ 11:50am

Originally posted by Ralf:
Originally posted by Witski:
i also manage to undervolt the cpu, i don't remember im not at home but now it works at 1.39 instead of 1.4+volts.
I ran my PII 965 @1.275V in a GA970-Ud3 moba for 5-6 years.

that board is build for oc, the op board is not even close to that quality
its made to run a aii/pii <75w at stock speeds

#14

Witski Jul 15, 2019 @ 11:56am

well crap :) all good pieces but the mobo sux hard :c

#15

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Date Posted: Jul 15, 2019 @ 4:38am

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