SSD / Overheating?

[BarSouthh]

So I just got into rust, and downloaded it onto my SSD so the game would load faster and everything would be all around better. Except recently my computer has been completely overheating when it’s on my SSD. Just shutting down fully out of no where and won’t even let me turn it back on. I put rust back on my D drive (hard drive) but takes forever to get in game. Does anyone know how to fix the overheating problem when rust is on SSD? (Fans are all working and PC doesn’t get hot at all when rust is running on my D drive)

[Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism]

Beauty eredeti hozzászólása:

So i just went to run rust. To then get the temperature information for you guys.
My computer just crashed while starting rust. The monitor goes black and the PC stays on but the fans go absolutely insane and get very loud.
And i know its bad to use the button on the actual PC to turn it off but thats the only way i can shut it down after this happens. Any ideas? This PC is 3 months old max. So i don't know what could be failing.

I don't think you should feel bad for using the power button. There was a time when shutting down your HDD while it was writing stuff caused file system issues and it had to be repaired to a better state (typically by removing blocks and files partly written it seemed) whereas now of course if the computer is writing something and power goes off it can no longer finish that but you typically don't notice how it's fixed. I don't know if it could be bad for anything else but you likely end up having quite a bit of capacitance and inductance between the connector and any sensitive stuff which may make it less aggressive. Anyways I wouldn't worry about that.

I don't know which fan goes up but if they do they likely due that as a response to some temperature reading so something is getting hotter. Can it be the case that you use a CPU with the stock cooler in a not very well ventilated case and when loading the data the CPU is used to decompress it or whatever and when loading from SSD it's read much faster keeping the CPU more busy generating more heat and hence the issue? If it's a poor motherboard with very crappy VRM heatsinks / VRM and with poor air-flow it could also be that the CPU use so much power that the VRM components become so hot that the motherboard turns of to protect itself.
The solution in case one would be to get a decent CPU cooler and/or do the solution for case two which would be to add more fans or replace the case with one with much better airflow. Lots of cases now use glass panels and glass as you may be aware is terrible for letting air through. They may have plastic, metal or glas panels covering stuff with small air gaps but that doesn't let air through as good as grill surfaces would do. Also some cases have grills but they also have a mest behind the grill destroying air flow even further.

So what I would start by doing is to see whatever you can improve air-flow as is, by removing some dust filter or opening something up or such.

Could you post what case you have or post a photo of it?
Could you also tell what motherboard you have? You could check with something like CPU-Z if you don't want to try to see it on the board.
Possibly also what CPU (same program) as well as whatever you have the stock cooler on or something better.

A typical modern case like the P400 with a low-end motherboard and stock cooler possibly because it's a store build where they have picked a case which look nice but then cheaped out on the rest of the components to be able to have a low price and increase earnings could have issues. Using a case with good air-flow, a premium motherboard and a good CPU cooler would of course lower that risk.

Also if you have a graphics card with 2-3 fans blowing the air out into the case circulating hot air inside it that would be worse with a case with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ airflow and poor VRM solution because it of course increase the case temperature. The standard cheap "hair-style" coolers with just one fan laying flat onto the card blowing air out the back through the expansion slot cutout typically have smaller heatsinks and worse air-flow and hence may very well cool the graphics card worse and be noisier but they at-least remove some heat out from the case improving the situation for other components.

[emoticorpse]

Look in the case while it's on. Any fans not spinning?

[BarSouthh]

Heres the entire PC build
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/HjbjMZ

I have a better fan then the stock one too. I honestly don't understand how it could be shutting down right when i turn it on if it hasn't been on you know? Like i don't see there being a heat problem right as i turn it on causing it to shut down.

I really need to take my PC somewhere and have someone physically look at it but i don't want to have to pay for that lmao

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism eredeti hozzászólása:

Beauty eredeti hozzászólása:

So i just went to run rust. To then get the temperature information for you guys.
My computer just crashed while starting rust. The monitor goes black and the PC stays on but the fans go absolutely insane and get very loud.
And i know its bad to use the button on the actual PC to turn it off but thats the only way i can shut it down after this happens. Any ideas? This PC is 3 months old max. So i don't know what could be failing.

I don't think you should feel bad for using the power button. There was a time when shutting down your HDD while it was writing stuff caused file system issues and it had to be repaired to a better state (typically by removing blocks and files partly written it seemed) whereas now of course if the computer is writing something and power goes off it can no longer finish that but you typically don't notice how it's fixed. I don't know if it could be bad for anything else but you likely end up having quite a bit of capacitance and inductance between the connector and any sensitive stuff which may make it less aggressive. Anyways I wouldn't worry about that.

I don't know which fan goes up but if they do they likely due that as a response to some temperature reading so something is getting hotter. Can it be the case that you use a CPU with the stock cooler in a not very well ventilated case and when loading the data the CPU is used to decompress it or whatever and when loading from SSD it's read much faster keeping the CPU more busy generating more heat and hence the issue? If it's a poor motherboard with very crappy VRM heatsinks / VRM and with poor air-flow it could also be that the CPU use so much power that the VRM components become so hot that the motherboard turns of to protect itself.
The solution in case one would be to get a decent CPU cooler and/or do the solution for case two which would be to add more fans or replace the case with one with much better airflow. Lots of cases now use glass panels and glass as you may be aware is terrible for letting air through. They may have plastic, metal or glas panels covering stuff with small air gaps but that doesn't let air through as good as grill surfaces would do. Also some cases have grills but they also have a mest behind the grill destroying air flow even further.

So what I would start by doing is to see whatever you can improve air-flow as is, by removing some dust filter or opening something up or such.

Could you post what case you have or post a photo of it?
Could you also tell what motherboard you have? You could check with something like CPU-Z if you don't want to try to see it on the board.
Possibly also what CPU (same program) as well as whatever you have the stock cooler on or something better.

A typical modern case like the P400 with a low-end motherboard and stock cooler possibly because it's a store build where they have picked a case which look nice but then cheaped out on the rest of the components to be able to have a low price and increase earnings could have issues. Using a case with good air-flow, a premium motherboard and a good CPU cooler would of course lower that risk.

Also if you have a graphics card with 2-3 fans blowing the air out into the case circulating hot air inside it that would be worse with a case with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ airflow and poor VRM solution because it of course increase the case temperature. The standard cheap "hair-style" coolers with just one fan laying flat onto the card blowing air out the back through the expansion slot cutout typically have smaller heatsinks and worse air-flow and hence may very well cool the graphics card worse and be noisier but they at-least remove some heat out from the case improving the situation for other components.

[BarSouthh]

All fans are spinning, but it gets so loud when i turn it on.

emoticorpse eredeti hozzászólása:

Look in the case while it's on. Any fans not spinning?

[BarSouthh]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/HjbjMZ

No i can't load into anything. Nothing turns on at all. The PC turns on, but nothing shows up onto my screen. Just says no power or whatever and I'm just stuck listening to my insanely loud PC.

Sorry I'm trying to give as much info as possible but I'm fairly new to the whole PC thing and i feel like its hard to give info when i can't even get onto the PC ya know?

Brockenstein eredeti hozzászólása:

Well fans typically kick on straight away, all the speed stepping and fan control stuff loads up after/during boot, not at 0.1 seconds after power gets turned on.

Which drive is the OS drive? The SSD or the HDD?

Were you able to turn on the PC during the first few Rust crashes? I mean sure it could be hardware, it could be the SSD failing, because that does happen however rarely. But from over here we can only guess. And you're struggling to get information and cross things off the list.

Because even if it is hardware, so? You'd still want to figure out what the offending component is. So you're still going to be troubleshooting to narrow things down. And you might have just borked your Windows install though and need to repair/reinstall, which is no biggie.

So first things first, when you turn on the PC, can you at least get into the BIOS?

[Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism]

CPU and CPU cooler should be fine.

What speed do you run the RAM in? Have you overclocked them beyond 2933 MHz? Could be a situation where the computer isn't stable because of overclocked RAM and you just notice when loading Rust.

As far as cooling itself the graphics card is fine too.

Which leaves the case and motherboard.
The case only have gaps at the top and bottom of the front panel with air filters to let air in and only come with one 120 mm fan in the back. Do you have any additional case fans at all?
TweakTown:
"The VRM is in a 6+3 phase controlled by an Intersil ISL95712, it's in 3+3 PWM mode and features two integrated drivers for the main 3 phase rail and one on the 3 phase rail. Three ISL6625 drivers can be found (1 VCore, 2 SoC). The CPU VCore phases each use one Nikos PK618BA and one PZ0903BK MOSFETs. The SoC phases use twoPK618BA for the low-side and one PZ0903BK for the high-side."
You can find your board here:
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html
Seem the same to B450 Pro 4? Which they list as midrange (OC of 2700X ok) here: https://i.redd.it/7n48gewun0p21.png
So maybe the VRM of the board is fine.
It do have a heatsink:
https://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll1280/13-157-840-V07.jpg

I don't know how likely overheated VRM is but if you use XMP/DCOP or manually overclocked RAM I would start by turning that off and see if that make a difference. (Or have it on but manually pick 2933 MHz frequency.) (Could also start with updating BIOS in case a newer one helps.)

Second step if overheating / protected VRM is the problem to open the side window or remove the front panel if that can be done / install some case fans there, whatever. If you really want to improve it maybe get a case with a mesh panel instead.

If there's some other problem then I don't know what.

One 120 mm case fan isn't much. And the case isn't good for air-flow. I can assume the pre-installed fan isn't the best and being just one and 120 mm and if the components are getting hot I can see how it will spin to try to solve that and make noise but not being enough.

[BarSouthh]

Okay,
Nothing is overclocked that i know of because to be honest with you i don't know how to do that.
And i understand what you're saying about the case and maybe its overheating, but if its overheating lets say, wouldn't my PC be able to turn on and let me use it for at least a little?

It had been off earlier for about 20-30 minutes, so it was cold, and it immediately when to the loud noisy fans and no signal to my monitor.

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism eredeti hozzászólása:

CPU and CPU cooler should be fine.

What speed do you run the RAM in? Have you overclocked them beyond 2933 MHz? Could be a situation where the computer isn't stable because of overclocked RAM and you just notice when loading Rust.

As far as cooling itself the graphics card is fine too.

Which leaves the case and motherboard.
The case only have gaps at the top and bottom of the front panel with air filters to let air in and only come with one 120 mm fan in the back. Do you have any additional case fans at all?
TweakTown:
"The VRM is in a 6+3 phase controlled by an Intersil ISL95712, it's in 3+3 PWM mode and features two integrated drivers for the main 3 phase rail and one on the 3 phase rail. Three ISL6625 drivers can be found (1 VCore, 2 SoC). The CPU VCore phases each use one Nikos PK618BA and one PZ0903BK MOSFETs. The SoC phases use twoPK618BA for the low-side and one PZ0903BK for the high-side."
You can find your board here:
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html
Seem the same to B450 Pro 4? Which they list as midrange here: https://i.redd.it/7n48gewun0p21.png
So maybe the VRM of the board is fine.
It do have a heatsink:
https://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll1280/13-157-840-V07.jpg

I don't know how likely overheated VRM is but if you use XMP/DCOP or manually overclocked RAM I would start by turning that off and see if that make a difference.

Second step would be to open the side window or remove the front panel if that can be done / install some case fans there, whatever. If you really want to improve it maybe get a case with a mesh panel instead.

[Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism]

Beauty eredeti hozzászólása:

Okay,
Nothing is overclocked that i know of because to be honest with you i don't know how to do that.
And i understand what you're saying about the case and maybe its overheating, but if its overheating lets say, wouldn't my PC be able to turn on and let me use it for at least a little?

It had been off earlier for about 20-30 minutes, so it was cold, and it immediately when to the loud noisy fans and no signal to my monitor.

For the RAM you just go into BIOS and enable DCOP for instance which automatically will try to run your RAM at 3200 MHz or whatever. Your RAM is sold as a kit which can do that but AMD only claim their processors can do 2933 MHz and typically to be able to go faster the motherboard when using it will raise the voltage both for the RAM modules (which likely doesn't really damage them as far as the 1.35 volt goes) and the memory controller in the processor (which may do damage to it but more likely and more and more of a problem with higher voltages and temperatures.) The later is a problem with automatic overclocking because there's a risk it will automatically throw high voltages in there which may make the system stable but also degrade the memory controller in this case over time. And as in my case I have 3466 MHz RAM and it was reasonably stable at 3400 MHz on X470-F motherboard but it's not on B450-F so now I run it at 3200 MHz. But if your RAM isn't running faster than the stock default settings then it likely isn't a problem. CPU-Z could tell you how fast the RAM is running to under memory/SPD/RAM/whatever it says.

The PC had been off for 20 minutes and was noisy as soon as your turned it on? Your fan isn't always noisy? Maybe it's not controlled early on but just run on full speed? I don't know.

I don't know what the odds are for your VRM components getting a bit hit because of just one case fan if that's all you have and that case or not.

The P350X got air gap along the sides:
https://inetimg2.se/img/1600x900/6902890_0.jpg
Still only one 120 mm fan included though.
If you remove the front panel by just pulling it outwards:
https://youtu.be/XtmAeAl5j_Y?t=220
You can at-least open up the case a lot more so I guess you could try that and see if that changes anything. If you already have some 120 mm fan maybe you could fit on there in the front or so and see if that changes anything.
I understand you may not want to use it like that but it's a thing you could try if temperature is the issue.

[BarSouthh]

Can i even open BIOS when my monitor isn't getting any signal? Sorry this might be a stupid question but i literally don't know.

And do you think i should just take it in somewhere? I don't really want to take my PC and leave it somewhere though.

And I'm trying to understand everything you're saying its just very technical lol. Trying my best to follow along here.

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism eredeti hozzászólása:

Beauty eredeti hozzászólása:

Okay,
Nothing is overclocked that i know of because to be honest with you i don't know how to do that.
And i understand what you're saying about the case and maybe its overheating, but if its overheating lets say, wouldn't my PC be able to turn on and let me use it for at least a little?

It had been off earlier for about 20-30 minutes, so it was cold, and it immediately when to the loud noisy fans and no signal to my monitor.

For the RAM you just go into BIOS and enable DCOP for instance which automatically will try to run your RAM at 3200 MHz or whatever. Your RAM is sold as a kit which can do that but AMD only claim their processors can do 2933 MHz and typically to be able to go faster the motherboard when using it will raise the voltage both for the RAM modules (which likely doesn't really damage them as far as the 1.35 volt goes) and the memory controller in the processor (which may do damage to it but more likely and more and more of a problem with higher voltages and temperatures.) The later is a problem with automatic overclocking because there's a risk it will automatically throw high voltages in there which may make the system stable but also degrade the memory controller in this case over time. And as in my case I have 3466 MHz RAM and it was reasonably stable at 3400 MHz on X470-F motherboard but it's not on B450-F so now I run it at 3200 MHz. But if your RAM isn't running faster than the stock default settings then it likely isn't a problem. CPU-Z could tell you how fast the RAM is running to under memory/SPD/RAM/whatever it says.

The PC had been off for 20 minutes and was noisy as soon as your turned it on? Your fan isn't always noisy? Maybe it's not controlled early on but just run on full speed? I don't know.

I don't know what the odds are for your VRM components getting a bit hit because of just one case fan if that's all you have and that case or not.

The P350X got air gap along the sides:
https://inetimg2.se/img/1600x900/6902890_0.jpg
Still only one 120 mm fan included though.
If you remove the front panel by just pulling it outwards:
https://youtu.be/XtmAeAl5j_Y?t=220
You can at-least open up the case a lot more so I guess you could try that and see if that changes anything. If you already have some 120 mm fan maybe you could fit on there in the front or so and see if that changes anything.

[Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism]

Beauty eredeti hozzászólása:

Can i even open BIOS when my monitor isn't getting any signal? Sorry this might be a stupid question but i literally don't know.

And do you think i should just take it in somewhere? I don't really want to take my PC and leave it somewhere though.

And I'm trying to understand everything you're saying its just very technical lol. Trying my best to follow along here.

No I've read the rest of the thread now about fans going crazy and black screen.
Do you know what fans are spinning much?

There could of course be something bad with the graphics card, one way of testing would be to try it in some friends PC to see if it works there. I'm not saying there's something wrong with it. You could also just unplug it and plug in back in again in case it sit wrong or whatever. No idea why fans would go crazy though. You have used a screw to hold the metal connector thingy onto the case so it can't move around much?

Or maybe the computer doesn't boot because something else isn't completely correct.
One could ofcourse remove the CPU cooler, clean of the paste and put new one and and reset it and see if that made any difference in case it doesn't sit right or whatever but I guess that may not be all that likely either. If you do so it would be better if the paste was warm to begin with and if you twisted the cooler a bit before lifting it because there's a risk the kinda vaccum between the cooler and the processor can lift the whole processor out of the socket when you try to lift the cooler so the warmer and more fluid the paste is and if it's already got a bit lose by twisting/rotating the cooler first the easier it goes. To clean it off I imagine most people use some rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol or ethanol) or even ammonia on for instance a piece of coffee filter so you don't leave a bunch of fibers and then one need a "syringe" of new paste to put onto the CPU heatspreader for remounting the cooler. But the odds of a lose or wrongly mounted cooler may be weak too.

The CPU fan is connected to the motherboard CPU FAN header and haven't come lose? Maybe it also run at full speed just as the computer is turned on to later calm itself down.

I assume you have made sure the monitor cable is connected and that you haven't for whatever reason moved it to the video output connects of the motherboard but are using the ones of the graphics card?

I understand trying to troubleshot this suck. It's such a crap position to be in.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

All of this back and forth, yet I see no temps anywhere, monitor them... what are they.

Use HWMONITOR and log the temps. It will monitor drive temps as well. I highly doubt it's an issue with the ssd unless it's dying.

PC shuts down and won't turn back on within a short time, that is cpu overheating or a psu issue.

[BarSouthh]

Am i able to do this if i can't even get any signal to my monitor? It stays black.

I just took my PC to best buy and had some of the guys there look at it and they think its my motherboard. They ran all the diagnostics and they said everything is leaning towards that.

Bad 💀 Motha eredeti hozzászólása:

All of this back and forth, yet I see no temps anywhere, monitor them... what are they.

Use HWMONITOR and log the temps. It will monitor drive temps as well. I highly doubt it's an issue with the ssd unless it's dying.

PC shuts down and won't turn back on within a short time, that is cpu overheating or a psu issue.

[BarSouthh]

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism eredeti hozzászólása:

I appreciate you sitting here trying to troubleshoot with me lol.

I just took my PC to best buy and had some of the guys there look at it and they think its my motherboard. They ran all the diagnostics and they said everything is leaning towards that.

So now i think the plan is to call ASRock and look into my warranty?

Beauty eredeti hozzászólása:

Can i even open BIOS when my monitor isn't getting any signal? Sorry this might be a stupid question but i literally don't know.

And do you think i should just take it in somewhere? I don't really want to take my PC and leave it somewhere though.

And I'm trying to understand everything you're saying its just very technical lol. Trying my best to follow along here.

No I've read the rest of the thread now about fans going crazy and black screen.
Do you know what fans are spinning much?

There could of course be something bad with the graphics card, one way of testing would be to try it in some friends PC to see if it works there. I'm not saying there's something wrong with it. You could also just unplug it and plug in back in again in case it sit wrong or whatever. No idea why fans would go crazy though. You have used a screw to hold the metal connector thingy onto the case so it can't move around much?

Or maybe the computer doesn't boot because something else isn't completely correct.
One could ofcourse remove the CPU cooler, clean of the paste and put new one and and reset it and see if that made any difference in case it doesn't sit right or whatever but I guess that may not be all that likely either. If you do so it would be better if the paste was warm to begin with and if you twisted the cooler a bit before lifting it because there's a risk the kinda vaccum between the cooler and the processor can lift the whole processor out of the socket when you try to lift the cooler so the warmer and more fluid the paste is and if it's already got a bit lose by twisting/rotating the cooler first the easier it goes. To clean it off I imagine most people use some rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol or ethanol) or even ammonia on for instance a piece of coffee filter so you don't leave a bunch of fibers and then one need a "syringe" of new paste to put onto the CPU heatspreader for remounting the cooler. But the odds of a lose or wrongly mounted cooler may be weak too.

The CPU fan is connected to the motherboard CPU FAN header and haven't come lose? Maybe it also run at full speed just as the computer is turned on to later calm itself down.

I assume you have made sure the monitor cable is connected and that you haven't for whatever reason moved it to the video output connects of the motherboard but are using the ones of the graphics card?

I understand trying to troubleshot this suck. It's such a crap position to be in.

[Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism]

But you hadn't bought it at Best buy or? So you ended up having to pay for diagnostics there?

I don't know how much effort they put into it but if they have given it decent effort and if it's the motherboard then Asrock or the store you bought it from would sort it out. Here in Sweden one contact the store but in the US maybe not.

[BarSouthh]

Best buy has a department that looks into stuff like this. They did it for free.

Already sent Asrock an email but it is a holiday right now in America so hopefully I will hear from them soon.

And i ordered all of my parts online so theres no where i can really go lol

Aliquis Freedom & Ethnopluralism eredeti hozzászólása:

But you hadn't bought it at Best buy or? So you ended up having to pay for diagnostics there?

I don't know how much effort they put into it but if they have given it decent effort and if it's the motherboard then Asrock or the store you bought it from would sort it out. Here in Sweden one contact the store but in the US maybe not.