Uncut Games in Germany/Age Verification System (updated!)

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Since there is no one (from Steam) taking part in the german boards, I suggest the same idea thousands of gamers have in the german board. We want uncut games for people over 18. Since you guys are to lazy to make a good ID Check on your side, the people decided to post many ideas by themselves.

In germany there is a really good ID Check Service from the mailing service "Deutsche Post". It is named E-POST and is free for the users. So PLEASE use this service or any other comparable one just to make it possible to get uncut games for people who are OVER 18. It is damn annoying not to buy many games, because they are ugly cut. If you guys from steam would change this fact and make it possible to get uncut games after verifying the own age, I am sure, you would sale much more game licenses. Just think about it...in the end we want to buy the games...but not in a cut edition, because these are lame to play.

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Okay now I am really mad. It can't be, that the games are cut like hell, but the movies/trailers in the Community Hub are showing every game full uncut. I mean.....WHAT THE HELL?

[Meddy83]

Hi, I agree with Wolve.
As an adult German customer I am interested in buying uncut games at Steam store. So my question is, will there be a Kid Mode in near future? If yes when and can I then buy uncut Games?

[Jackson =D]

引用自 eLmEtO：

Hi, I agree with Wolve.
As an adult German customer I am interested in buying uncut games at Steam store. So my question is, will there be a Kid Mode in near future? If yes when and can I then buy uncut Games?

Unfortunately it's out of Valve's control, it's the government.

[El poco nuez del muerte]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

引用自 Trading Portal 2, TF2 cards!!：

What I don't understand as far as this topic is concerned - why does Valve go after the people from Germany, that buy games in for example the UK Store via VPN etc.
I would clearly think most people going through that effort do it for being able to play a game in its uncut version, and not because of some price differences in different markets. (Clearly these exist, but I highly doubt that being the main reason for shopping abroad.)
If you cannot offer people uncut games in one country, be it for legal or other reasons, why go after those that try to somehow get them in other ways?

So you want Valve to provide a way to bypass a countries laws? Realy? You know that it is illegal to do so, right?

If they don't stay in-line with a countries laws, then they will be fined and prevented from selling in that country.

Well, Valve sold TF 2 through Steam to germans, and that game has an 18+ rating in germany. Age checking does not seam to matter to Valve in that regard. Why not go by the same principle in regards to other games that would require an age check?

[El poco nuez del muerte]

引用自 Dj =D：

引用自 eLmEtO：

Hi, I agree with Wolve.
As an adult German customer I am interested in buying uncut games at Steam store. So my question is, will there be a Kid Mode in near future? If yes when and can I then buy uncut Games?

Unfortunately it's out of Valve's control, it's the government.

There are ways to perform an age check. Besides, like I said in my other post, Valve did not care about age checks with TF2. So,no, this is not out of control of Valve at all. Not in the least. They HAVE done it in the past.

[El poco nuez del muerte]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

引用自 Wolve：

That is exactly, why this behavior should be change. Games are the black sheeps in the media world.

Well, Valve and the Developers have to remain in compliance with the laws where the games are sold. If you want uncut games, you will have to take it up with your government. It isn't something Valve has a say in.

Ok,I have to answer to that. If games are cut in germany, it is usually done by the publisher to reach a wider audience. They are not forced to do that.

Prime example: TF2. It was developed and recieved an 18+ rating. Valve reacted and made the rubber-ducky version in the hope of reaching a lower rating, for example 16+. It did not work, the rating stayed at 18+. The game was still sold through Steam without age checks to germans.

They were not forced to cut it, they did because they wanted to increase the target audience that they could sell to. They wanted to be able to sell to people younger than 18. They were denied, but on steam, they don't care about that, they sell it to minors anyway.

So again, no, this is not out of valves hands.

[Max]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

It has everything to do with the laws in Germay. There has always been a double standard there too. The diffrence is watching vs playing. You don't controll the violance in a movie. You tend to choose to be violent in a game.

I suggest talking to your government if you want to change that.

Also, it takes more effort to censor a came then it does to release the uncut version, so lazyness is not a factor.

German laws allow distributors to sell games that have been indexed in Germany if the customer is able to verify his age (18+).

[Meddy83]

German government shows opportunities to the retail sector to make their business with adult German customers. For instance with the above mentioned Post-Ident or E-Post Method.

I mean there are several methods to create a secure way or channel. If Valve introduce such a age-verifying system I would even pay more for this game.

[Meddy83]

Hi all, again the main question: Will there be a kid mode in near future? Can you or valve confirm that?
If yes, are the German customer allowed to buy Original (uncut) Games like in the rest of the world?

[Max]

引用自 eLmEtO：

Hi all, again the main question: Will there be a kid mode in near future? Can you or valve confirm that?
If yes, are the German customer allowed to buy Original (uncut) Games like in the rest of the world?

No, it has nothing to do with age verification, there will just be a PIN that prevents others to access specific content from your account.

[Meddy83]

ok thank you, but I red an article or post in a game magazine (years ago, I think 2010 or 2011) interview with Mr. Gabe Newell, who said "sooner or later we get this" (Accessibility at German Steam Store for German Customers to uncut games) Are there any news about? Maybe from Valve?

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I read that, too. It was an interview with Gabe about the age verification system, that was planned for the german market. But until now, there was no further news. So it seems, that Gabe forgot about it. Still there should be a feature for adult gamers, to buy uncut games. Sure the law does not allow to sell uncut games to children, but it does not say ANYTHING about selling uncut stuff to adults. And like mEtO said before...there are working systems for age verification, why Valve does not use them for their network?

[Meddy83]

Introducing an age verification system (AVS) is the only option in my opion to satisfy adult German customers needs. I mean individual barries from government must be solved through smart and individual (adult) serivces through Valve, because Valve is very popular and world wide well known. They grow and grow year for year, and have more responsibility of course.

It is very annoying that an adult person in Germany cannot buy Mortal Kombat or Dead Rising but any other person in other countries can do that.

Pro's:
there are existing instruments for AVS (make or buy)
there is a huge gaming (adult) market in long term
developer, publisher and distributors can generate their wins without consequences
such a AVS can prevent or limited black markets to get illegal copies
It would be easier or nicer and there were hardly complaints from customers
(Re) investing in good customers leads to satisfaction on both sides

Con's
maybe an AVS can cause much costs at begins, but long term they can cover it.
managing, testing, communication barrries..

[Katelyn K.]

Sadly, this is something requested for more than five years. It is really about time to implement such a feature as AVS. I would definitely buy more games, if I could be sure to get a non-localized, uncut version. Fallout 3 GOTY for example. I was just thinking about buying it on Steam (even though I already got the boxed version. uncut by the way, legally bought in Germany), but when I saw the text-box saying "German low-violence version" I reconsidered. And yes, there will never be a game I would buy, if it is one of those versions. Sure there is the possibility to buy the uncut versions directly in a game store (if they got it in stock) or buy it through amazon.uk, but this hasn't be that way. I don't know how much percentages of a sale goes to Steam, but don't you think it would pay off in the long run?! It's not even legally risky if you implement an AVS for the German market. You can even advertise those games (to people verified to be 18+ of age) then. So please make this happen!

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Yeah...that*s right, but why should Valve (Steam) care about that? They got their restrictions and don't care about alternatives. In the end it is like the Moderator up there wrote:

Buy your stuff somewhere else, if you don't like the Steam system.

Thanks for that Spawn of Totoro! You opened my eyes.

Liebe Mitspieler,

die Hoffnung stirbt! Durch die Inkompetenz großer Unternehmer gehen wir, die Endkunden leer aus. Statt das uns entgegengekommen wird, wie es normalerweise mit der Angebot und Nachfrage funktioniert, werden wir einfach ignoriert. Seit Jahren (und das sind nicht nur zwei oder drei) wird in der Community nach Entgegenkommen gefragt und bisher ist NICHTS passiert! Während im deutschen Fernsehen, in den Kinos und auf Werbeplakaten Sex und Gewalt an der Tagesordnung sind, müssen wir Spieler auf Kürzungen und Zensur zurückgreifen. Wieso das so ist, weiss jeder, denn unsere schöne Politik hat dafür gesorgt. Nur weil Eltern ihre Aufsichtspflicht komplett missachtet haben und deshalb ein Kind Amok lief, müssen wir (üblich für die Politik) als Sündenbock dafür gerade stehen.

Vielen Dank dafür!

Diejenigen unter euch, die keine Lust mehr darauf haben: Kauft eure Spiele über Portale wie GMG, Gamersgate, Gamefly, kinguin, Nuuvem, MoonQQ usw. und aktiviert diese über einen VPN im Ausland. Meisten führt dies zur ungekürzten Fassung! Wie lange das funktionieren wird, könnt ihr euch ja ausmalen.


Eine Danksagung an die Eltern:

Danke, dass ihr euren Kindern lieber eine Konsole/PC vor die Nase stellt, statt eurer Aufsichtspflicht nachzugehen. Danke, dass ihr euch überhaupt nicht um das Leben eurer Kinder scherrt. Danke, dass ihr mit dem Finger Richtung Konsole/PC zeigt, wenn euer Kind dann komplett wegen Nichtbeachtung ausrastet! Vielen Dank dafür!

That's my opinion! I hope, that some political researchers get to read this and try to overthing some laws, also I hope that Valve starts to realize, that they will lose more and more customers on the german market through their lazyness in working out alternatives.

Like the post before my own post: IT IS NOT FORBIDDEN IN GERMANY TO HAVE AN UNCUT SOFTWARE! IT IS ALSO NOT FORBIDDEN TO BUY UNCUT SOFTWARE. THE ONLY THING THAT IS FORBIDDEN: UNCUT SOFTWARE FOR CHILDREN! AN AGE VERIFICATION SYSTEM WOULD MAKE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE AND LEGIT!

I got enough about posting to this discussion, since I did this long enough (10 years btw - ain't my first steam account).The only thing against buying uncut games through steam, is Valve itself. You can still point with the finger at our law system, but it clearly does not forbid to sale uncut software to persons over 18! In the end it is your money, that you lose on the german market for not researching the possibilities with the age verification systems, that work very well here.