German Store Restrictions - We Need a Better Solution

[flyomotive]

I'm writing as a dedicated Steam user of over 10 years, with more than 1000 games and several thousands of Euros spent on the platform.

Steam has always been my go-to platform for gaming - it's user-friendly, innovative, and has consistently put users first. However, this month an incredibly frustrating situation has come about in regards to German regulations and Steam's missing age verification system:

Recently, a significant number of games have become completely inaccessible in the German Steam store due to missing age ratings. This affects both upcoming releases many have been excited about, like Subnautica 2 to name only one example, as well as recently released titles like Flight of Nova, an impressive space flight sim that I can no longer even view in the store. Even beloved older titles like Animal Super Squad and The Banner Saga have disappeared. Given that their developers already had months to fill out the Age Rating survey, it's unlikely that it will happen at all for lots of such games.

What's particularly concerning is that smaller and older games are disproportionately affected - and these are often the titles where Steam is the only platform to play them! The inability to even discover which games are affected, as they're completely removed from view, makes this situation even more frustrating.

While I understand that Valve is forced to comply with the short-sighted German regulations, the current implementation feels overly restrictive, especially given the robust age verification infrastructure already available in Germany and the EU (digital ID, passport, Postident, etc.).

It's worth noting that Steam has previously faced fines for breaching EU geo-blocking regulations (Regulation 2018/302), though I understand this is a complex situation.

Many of us would gladly verify our age through any of these established methods to regain access to the full Steam store.

Questions for Valve:

- Are there plans to implement an age verification solution?
- Could you share any timeline for addressing these issues?
- Is there any way for users to help expedite this process or verify their age on an individual basis?

Right now, many of us are forced to use other platforms just to stay informed about games, browse an uncensored storefront, track wishlisted games, and buy and play older games - something that is impossible for Steam-exclusive titles. There has got to be a better solution.

Thanks for your concern.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Sazzouu:

is factually wrong as I have proven by examples of features being taken away from you.

Features not related to the game doesn't change the fact that the game is taken away with you. When you buy a game the only promise you have is the ability to play the game. The forums, the reviews, etc were never guaranteed and you can lose access to both of those for a variety of reasons.

If steam were to shut down and stop offering reviews you'd still be able to play your game. So it is factually WRONG to claim the game is taken away if you can't leave a reviews.

[Sazzouu]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

It can't be both right and wrong.

Any games you already own you keep, that hasn't changed.

Your statement by itself is correct. It just has nothing to do with the question.

If I ask you what colour the sky is and you answer by saying „Modern Ambulances in the US usually come in White colour with red Elements“ your statement is correct but is completely irrelevant.

When a user says „I got restricted by some degree“ while they were taken away the possibilty to write a review for example you cannot sit there and say „oh no you were not restricted because you still have the game in your library“. Sure we do have our games but we still are restricted in terms of features when it comes to these games

[Sazzouu]

Originally posted by Brian9824:

So it is factually WRONG to claim the game is taken away if you can't leave a reviews.

Please quote who did that

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Sazzouu:

They were talking about restrictions in general while Kunovega acted like a smart**s by saying „there are no restrictions because you keep your game“ which yet again is factually wrong as I have proven by examples of features being taken away from you.

In context no restrictions for the game. Community features are extra/optional.

Originally posted by Sazzouu:

While their statement might be correct does not change the fact that it did neither answer the request of Sinatr nor did it add any value to the current discussion

Went from wrong to correct? Neat. Seems it nailed the point of the discussion quite well actually;

Originally posted by Sinatr:

Such changes shouldn't retro-active, once I bought the game I should be opted out of any future restriction similar to those, unless Gabe is willing personally compensate me the losses.

Seems in context to games, which should be the only realistic expectation. Other things may be subject to change especially if residing in the eu, as everyone knows they make overly questionable laws, frequently. Though once a product is owned, it is owned. The only way they'd lose their game access is
-Game ban
-Key revoke (fraud purchase)
-*IF* the EU (Germany) made it illegal to possess certain games legally sold on Steam everywhere else, be in a users library or otherwise installed.

So, they get to keep their games unless some other silly law is enacted that changes that.

[Sazzouu]

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

In context no restrictions for the game. Community features are extra/optional.

If so, then why restricting said „extra“ features to begin with. I cannot recall the german law saying anything about the community functions. As far as I know it was only about the distribution of the products.

I would be absolutely fine with the current change if I could at least see the store pages with a message saying „Due to local laws this product cannot be purchased in Germany“ so I can at the very least see what products I am missing out if I cant find a person to gift it. Pretty much the same as they did with cut and uncut versions obtainable through the same store page. Or to make reporting to the developers / punlishers more accessible so us German users at least get a decent opportunity to do something about the situation at least for the games each users wants individually

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Sazzouu:

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

In context no restrictions for the game. Community features are extra/optional.

If so, then why restricting said „extra“ features to begin with. I cannot recall the german law saying anything about the community functions. As far as I know it was only about the distribution of the products.

I would be absolutely fine with the current change if I could at least see the store pages with a message saying „Due to local laws this product cannot be purchased in Germany“ so I can at the very least see what products I am missing out if I cant find a person to gift it. Pretty much the same as they did with cut and uncut versions obtainable through the same store page. Or to make reporting to the developers / punlishers more accessible so us German users at least get a decent opportunity to do something about the situation at least for the games each users wants individually

The law as written states the games can't even be marketed unless they are in compliance; that means they not only can't be sold there, they can not be advertised or marketed. Having the store page and community be visible by default could be considered marketing the game.

responsibility of the Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien (Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons) to index games, movies or other type of media and restrict sale and distribution. Also to enforce a general advertising ban for media which are considered liable to have an undesirable influence on the moral development of young people

Without a rating, it can't even be displayed.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Sazzouu:

Originally posted by Brian9824:

So it is factually WRONG to claim the game is taken away if you can't leave a reviews.

Please quote who did that

Originally posted by Sazzouu:

because you keep your game“ which yet again is factually wrong as I have proven by examples of features being taken away from you.

Again, you keep your game, even if the reviews or the store page is taken away. That is a fact

Originally posted by Sazzouu:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Nothing was retroactive. Any games you own already, you keep.

It's impressive how confidentially wrong one person can be.

A game I once openly bought is not reviewable for me because I have zero access to the store page. So they actually take away features from me

Again, not being able to leave a review for a game that is no longer sold means you still keep the game you bought.

That's like saying if they take away your ability to get free car washes after you bought your car and trying to claim they "took away your car".

[Ben Lubar]

The law in Germany is that games that are unrated cannot be shown to minors. As in, if a store has unrated games on its shelves, minors cannot enter that store or see the shelves from the street.

Source: https://usk.de/en/the-usk/faqs/youth-protection-in-germany/

Even if Valve set up one of the expensive systems people have suggested for age verification, that only proves that there is an adult in the room. It doesn't prove that there are no minors. And the law only cares whether there are minors, not how many adults there are.

And since the age verification needs to take place long before someone decides whether they want to buy a game, it's a potentially unlimited amount of extra money Valve would have to spend to get potentially zero profit.

[ナルゴ]

Vote better.

[Mia]

Originally posted by Ben Lubar:

The law in Germany is that games that are unrated cannot be shown to minors. As in, if a store has unrated games on its shelves, minors cannot enter that store or see the shelves from the street.

Source: https://usk.de/en/the-usk/faqs/youth-protection-in-germany/

Even if Valve set up one of the expensive systems people have suggested for age verification, that only proves that there is an adult in the room. It doesn't prove that there are no minors. And the law only cares whether there are minors, not how many adults there are.

And since the age verification needs to take place long before someone decides whether they want to buy a game, it's a potentially unlimited amount of extra money Valve would have to spend to get potentially zero profit.

Thanks for proving yet again that you do not know how laws work over here, as I already told you in another discussion. Again, it's okay not knowing how german laws work when you're not from here, but stop spreading bs, it's not helping anyone. Also genuine question, why do mostly americans have such strong feelings on that topic, especially if you're not affected by it at all?
For the US store nothing would change with a system in place in germany.

For clarification on the entire law stuff that was provided:
If a minor sees the age restricted stuff on the PC of their parents because they did not put proper measures to prevent it, then they will have to deal with the consequences. If you view age restricted stuff in front of a minor then you're obv at fault (also wtf, if you do this you shouldn't be around minors in the first place). As long as the age restricted stuff is locked behind a valid age verification then Valve is gtg because they have complied with the law. If this stuff is bypassed then the person responsible for said minor will have to deal with consequences, §832 BGB paragraph 1 applying for parents or §832 BGB paragraph 2 for those who are contracted to supervise an affected person (in this case supervising a minor).
For a violation §1666 BGB will most likely come into play for the parents or the person who was contracted at the time of violation. There is no contract in which Valve is supervising a minor, therefor they can't be hold liable in any case if parents cant take care of their kids.

Originally posted by Nargo:

Vote better.

Hot take for someone from Hong Kong, no?

[DanTheKraut]

Originally posted by Ben Lubar:

The law in Germany is that games that are unrated cannot be shown to minors. As in, if a store has unrated games on its shelves, minors cannot enter that store or see the shelves from the street.

Source: https://usk.de/en/the-usk/faqs/youth-protection-in-germany/

Even if Valve set up one of the expensive systems people have suggested for age verification, that only proves that there is an adult in the room. It doesn't prove that there are no minors. And the law only cares whether there are minors, not how many adults there are.

And since the age verification needs to take place long before someone decides whether they want to buy a game, it's a potentially unlimited amount of extra money Valve would have to spend to get potentially zero profit.

You did read that the source you quoted is about the German Youth Protection Act (JuSchG) which is not for online stores?
The Interstate Treaty on the Protection of Minors in the Media (JMStV) is the legal basis for online stores.

The topic is about a solution for Germany and its outdated youth protection laws and a closed user group is such a solution.

Would all the games be available? Def. not but the majority.

While I am not affected by this I support this topic.

[ナルゴ]

Originally posted by ミア・フラフボール:

Originally posted by Nargo:

Vote better.

Hot take for someone from Hong Kong, no?

We shut down games that have vulgar/immoral content or exploitative monetization. And we appreciate it. Germany blocks harmless games like lobotomy corporation because it failed to abide by some arbitrary requirement. A consequence of over-regulation and legislative busywork.

My suggestion still stands. Vote better.

[Mia]

Originally posted by Nargo:

Originally posted by ミア・フラフボール:

Hot take for someone from Hong Kong, no?

We shut down games that have vulgar/immoral content or exploitative monetization. And we appreciate it. Germany blocks harmless games like lobotomy corporation because it failed to abide by some arbitrary requirement. A consequence of over-regulation and legislative busywork.

My suggestion still stands. Vote better.

Valve decided to block these games, not our government. There are enough options to still have things available, Valve however decided to just block instead of providing said options. But you know what? I'll vote better with my wallet and buy on other platforms instead. Even for Steam-only games there are methods to acquire a key. :)

[Ben Lubar]

Originally posted by ミア・フラフボール:

Originally posted by Nargo:

We shut down games that have vulgar/immoral content or exploitative monetization. And we appreciate it. Germany blocks harmless games like lobotomy corporation because it failed to abide by some arbitrary requirement. A consequence of over-regulation and legislative busywork.

My suggestion still stands. Vote better.

Valve decided to block these games, not our government. There are enough options to still have things available, Valve however decided to just block instead of providing said options. But you know what? I'll vote better with my wallet and buy on other platforms instead. Even for Steam-only games there are methods to acquire a key. :)

For a few years, both Brazilian and German laws have required that games in those markets have a content rating to help customers find age-appropriate content. For Germany in particular there has been a legal debate whether this requirement only applies to games newly introduced to the market or also to the back catalogue.

The German regulatory authority BZKJ has expressed to us their interpretation of the law applies to all games on Steam, including ones that were launched before the law came into effect. As a result, we will be required to only offer games for sale in Germany that have either been through Steam's built-in rating process or have a rating issued by Germany's rating agency, USK.

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/4183351393029705363

It wasn't Valve's decision. If it were Valve's decision, why would they have made the decision differently for your country than for every other country in existence?

[ナルゴ]

Good luck. Always good for there to be market competition. Do consider the epic games launcher.