Re-examine sexual/mature anime game fairness

[Average New Yorker]

To be straight forward and right to the point, could you have the the rules about nudity and sexual content re-examined in terms of allowing or denying a game appearing on steam.

Steam inconsistency approves mature anime games and im asking for the review process to be revised. While we don't know the specifics of it, the outcome is how we know the process is flawed in this case.

There have been many great premium games that have been rejected from steam like "Tokyo Clanpool" or "Evenicle 2" that have legitimate gameplay and are not low effort shovelware or shock bait porn games like "Sex with Hitler", "Sex with Stalin", or the "My [insert relationship here] is a futanari" games.

I feel it is unfair for these games to be on the steam store, and yet the prior two I listed get rejected. Especially when there are games like Neptunia, Gal Gun, Evenicle 1, Nekopara + DLC, Sabbath of the witch, Elf Girl Pinball, Karakara Vol 1+2, Mamau and the Labyrinth, Maitetsu, Koikatsu Party, Corona Blossom, Senran Kagura, and Under Party, God Eater3, all games that are available on steam, don't have sexualization or suggestive Imagery of lolis in them. And all of those were to just name a few.

There was a similar situation with the Chaos;Head game that it was initially rejected until backlash.

I enjoy buying games on the steam platform, and have to use other storefronts to buy games that get rejected here for seemingly no reason in compassion to others.

Please make a universal stance on sexual and nudity game approvals or denials.

[Doctor Zalgo]

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

I never mentioned that I wanted these games back onto steam, I stated from the very beginning that what I wanted was a re-examination of the rules and guidelines for developers because it is as you said, it seems like a moving goal post.

The goal post doesn't move, what moves is the particular interpretation of the person reviewing the game. There's nothing you can do about that because humans are non-deterministic and two different people won't interpret the same set of facts in exactly the same way.

What you can do is not put yourself in that position by creating content where you're being forced to say 'well, actually she's a 1900 year old dragon therefore ...'.

[KalGimpa]

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

William Shakesman eredeti hozzászólása:

"Valve is against this" is the wrong take here because it implies Valve is for "Sex with Hitler." Again, you are making guesses with incomplete information. If you want to talk about what Valve approves or disapproves of, your disgust reaction must be left at the door. Valve certainly does not ban what I am disgusted by because i am disgusted by it.



>it implies
Also again, guessing with incomplete information. See the quote above. "Because Valve did X, X must make perfect sense." The argument here I am making is not that Valve is right or wrong but they are inconsistent to a degree that what you BELIEVE to be developers dancing around the line is actually, in a numerically meaningful number of instances, developers who do not know and cannot know where the line actually is and have to guess.

There are legitimate rejections made. I do not deny that. But when you reduce all of this down to the two examples given in the thread and then say "I rejected all your examples, why do you keep making threads?" and ignore all the games that were approved you miss the forest for the trees which is that the standard fluctuates in unpredictable ways. That is not even Valves fault specifically, the standard fluctuates even on Youtube. I would not even disagree with banning OPs games. But the standard IS a moving target that devs have to guess at.

Yes, thank you.

I never mentioned that I wanted these games back onto steam, I stated from the very beginning that what I wanted was a re-examination of the rules and guidelines for developers because it is as you said, it seems like a moving goal post.

that assumes that they do not do this already

they are a business, after all

do you really think it never comes up in meetings?

seriously, the businesses just want to make money

again, i get it when a game someone wants is nixed

but it is the criminal element (the pedos) that have created the situation we are in

[Start_Running]

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Most of the time when you have these games being denied its because they have..shall we say "sus" characters of dubious age.

And the dev/pubs generally know why.

Yes, and sus games got approved in the past which is why I asked for a more universal way of judging a game in the future.

As I said before, if these games got denied for being "sus" there were plenty of games that got overlooked.

The most universal way is to make sure all your characters are easily discernable as adults.
Stay clear of that barely legal line.. And this is something dev/pubs know,

Charitably there is a matter of cultural differences and stylistich representations
Less charitably, they know what they're doi and you might say they pulled "Jack Stapleton"

[Average New Yorker]

KalCuey eredeti hozzászólása:

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes, thank you.

I never mentioned that I wanted these games back onto steam, I stated from the very beginning that what I wanted was a re-examination of the rules and guidelines for developers because it is as you said, it seems like a moving goal post.

that assumes that they do not do this already

they are a business, after all

do you really think it never comes up in meetings?

seriously, the businesses just want to make money

again, i get it when a game someone wants is nixed

but it is the criminal element (the pedos) that have created the situation we are in

It is because they are a business that this confuses me.

They don't have investors demands to cater.

If a game can be problematic in a certain region with stricter laws against anime in the name of child safety (like Australia), they can geo-block the game and still sell and make money in others. Like the US, Japan, ect. that have artistic freedom within reason. [Art has to be stylized and cannot be confused for a real depiction by the common person, and cannot be representative of any person living or dead]

There are tons of shock-value titles "Sex with hitler" that would make you think, why can this get approved but a game with legitimate gameplay get rejected for having spicy art of its characters. And as I said, their are plenty of games on steam already with seemingly minor characters being sexualizard. This is why i brought up the inconsistently point to begin with.

There are maturity filters and user tags that can be placed on a product for users who don't want to see or avoid sexual anime related products.

[Brian9824]

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

KalCuey eredeti hozzászólása:

that assumes that they do not do this already

they are a business, after all

do you really think it never comes up in meetings?

seriously, the businesses just want to make money

again, i get it when a game someone wants is nixed

but it is the criminal element (the pedos) that have created the situation we are in

It is because they are a business that this confuses me.

They don't have investors demands to cater.

If a game can be problematic in a certain region with stricter laws against anime in the name of child safety (like Australia), they can geo-block the game and still sell and make money in others. Like the US, Japan, ect. that have artistic freedom within reason. [Art has to be stylized and cannot be confused for a real depiction by the common person, and cannot be representative of any person living or dead]

There are tons of shock-value titles "Sex with hitler" that would make you think, why can this get approved but a game with legitimate gameplay get rejected for having spicy art of its characters. And as I said, their are plenty of games on steam already with seemingly minor characters being sexualizard. This is why i brought up the inconsistently point to begin with.

There are maturity filters and user tags that can be placed on a product for users who don't want to see or avoid sexual anime related products.

Sometimes its not a matter of being illegal, its just a matter of it being too close to comfort to want to take the chance of selling it for something that doesn't even generate them that much money in the first place.

Again, them not allowing it isn't saying its illegal, its just they don't want to touch it.

[Average New Yorker]

Brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

It is because they are a business that this confuses me.

They don't have investors demands to cater.

If a game can be problematic in a certain region with stricter laws against anime in the name of child safety (like Australia), they can geo-block the game and still sell and make money in others. Like the US, Japan, ect. that have artistic freedom within reason. [Art has to be stylized and cannot be confused for a real depiction by the common person, and cannot be representative of any person living or dead]

There are tons of shock-value titles "Sex with hitler" that would make you think, why can this get approved but a game with legitimate gameplay get rejected for having spicy art of its characters. And as I said, their are plenty of games on steam already with seemingly minor characters being sexualizard. This is why i brought up the inconsistently point to begin with.

There are maturity filters and user tags that can be placed on a product for users who don't want to see or avoid sexual anime related products.

Sometimes its not a matter of being illegal, its just a matter of it being too close to comfort to want to take the chance of selling it for something that doesn't even generate them that much money in the first place.

Again, them not allowing it isn't saying its illegal, its just they don't want to touch it.

And again, games with similar themes and elements were approved before. Which is why the point of the thread is to ask for consistency. Some get approved while others do not. It's very case by case, or seemingly by who the reviewer may be.

Steam reserves the right to reject any game if they so choose without providing a reason why. But as a game retailer this doesn't serve a purpose.

I don't care if all games with these elements are retroactively removed and going forward they're banned, but Valve needs to be consistent about it.

[KalGimpa]

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

Brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

Sometimes its not a matter of being illegal, its just a matter of it being too close to comfort to want to take the chance of selling it for something that doesn't even generate them that much money in the first place.

Again, them not allowing it isn't saying its illegal, its just they don't want to touch it.

And again, games with similar themes and elements were approved before. Which is why the point of the thread is to ask for consistency. Some get approved while others do not. It's very case by case, or seemingly by who the reviewer may be.

Steam reserves the right to reject any game if they so choose without providing a reason why. But as a game retailer this doesn't serve a purpose.

I don't care if all games with these elements are retroactively removed and going forward they're banned, but Valve needs to be consistent about it.

you keep saying things like

"but what about this game?"

and

"it needs to be consistent"

us not knowing what the details are does not mean that here are not other factors involved

again, this business wants to make money

they are not just willy nilly saying no to these games

[Average New Yorker]

KalCuey eredeti hozzászólása:

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

And again, games with similar themes and elements were approved before. Which is why the point of the thread is to ask for consistency. Some get approved while others do not. It's very case by case, or seemingly by who the reviewer may be.

Steam reserves the right to reject any game if they so choose without providing a reason why. But as a game retailer this doesn't serve a purpose.

I don't care if all games with these elements are retroactively removed and going forward they're banned, but Valve needs to be consistent about it.

you keep saying things like

"but what about this game?"

and

"it needs to be consistent"

us not knowing what the details are does not mean that here are not other factors involved

again, this business wants to make money

they are not just willy nilly saying no to these games

And again, it's because it's a business and similar games with similar themes and elements got approved that it needs to be consistent. It's because I know the process isn't "willy nilly" that I'm saying this. If the process is perfect and many games were unfairly removed or blocked, the process isn't perfect.

Valve isn't perfect. Thats the whole reason why we have the suggestion/ideas section.

As someone who casually consumes a variety of anime games, sexual or not over many years, its fairly simple to see the inconsistently of what gets approved or not. Especially when those games are made by the same developers and/or sequels to already existing titles, who follow the same formula for each of their games.

I really don't care if the game I mentioned doesn't come to steam, but they need to take a stance on one side of the post or the other.

And if its too hard to navigate the approval process, they should just go back to rejecting all sexual anime games

If the sexual anime games on steam that has "risky" content are truly mistakes and are an oversight by steam, that shows the process isn't perfect. And if they got approved while this one denied, the process isn't perfect.

[KalGimpa]

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

KalCuey eredeti hozzászólása:

you keep saying things like

"but what about this game?"

and

"it needs to be consistent"

us not knowing what the details are does not mean that here are not other factors involved

again, this business wants to make money

they are not just willy nilly saying no to these games

And again, it's because it's a business and similar games with similar themes and elements got approved that it needs to be consistent. It's because I know the process isn't "willy nilly" that I'm saying this. If the process is perfect and many games were unfairly removed or blocked, the process isn't perfect.

Valve isn't perfect. Thats the whole reason why we have the suggestion/ideas section.

As someone who casually consumes a variety of anime games, sexual or not over many years, its fairly simple to see the inconsistently of what gets approved or not. Especially when those games are made by the same developers and/or sequels to already existing titles, who follow the same formula for each of their games.

I really don't care if the game I mentioned doesn't come to steam, but they need to take a stance on one side of the post or the other.

And if its too hard to navigate the approval process, they should just go back to rejecting all sexual anime games

If the sexual anime games on steam that has "risky" content are truly mistakes and are an oversight by steam, that shows the process isn't perfect. And if they got approved while this one denied, the process isn't perfect.

you completely missed/ignored this part

KalCuey eredeti hozzászólása:

us not knowing what the details are does not mean that here are not other factors involved

similar is not the same

we do not know the whole thing and can only guess

[Start_Running]

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

And again, it's because it's a business and similar games with similar themes and elements got approved that it needs to be consistent. It's because I know the process isn't "willy nilly" that I'm saying this. If the process is perfect and many games were unfairly removed or blocked, the process isn't perfect.

SImilar...but not identical. A german Shepard is SImilar to a Wolf. A house cat is similar to a feral cat. Not understanding the differences will lead tio blood loss.

Same goes for the games. Similar, but not same. The differences are what account for the different outcomes.

[Suteri]

It's been bothering me to no end too, so many games that I wanted to buy here got banned like dungeon travelers 2, evenicle 2, muramasa and almost chaos head too. All of them banned while sex with hitler, my mom is a futanari and all sorts of weird content are allowed here. As a neptunia fan I was also excited for tokyo clanpool and... it also got banned! At least GOG is accepting these games, but it really sucks having to change platforms after so many years using steam. If only they hadn't changed their policies to screw with most japanese games...

[Mad Scientist]

Suteri eredeti hozzászólása:

It's been bothering me to no end too, so many games that I wanted to buy here got banned like dungeon travelers 2, evenicle 2, muramasa and almost chaos head too. All of them banned while sex with hitler, my mom is a futanari and all sorts of weird content are allowed here. As a neptunia fan I was also excited for tokyo clanpool and... it got banned too! At least GOG is accepting these games, but it really sucks having to change platforms after so many years using steam. If only they hadn't changed their policies to screw with most japanese games...

I keep seeing people compare games that don't have depictions of kids in sexual situations vs games banned for having depictions of children in sexual situations.

Its really telling.

[Suteri]

Mad Scientist eredeti hozzászólása:

Suteri eredeti hozzászólása:

It's been bothering me to no end too, so many games that I wanted to buy here got banned like dungeon travelers 2, evenicle 2, muramasa and almost chaos head too. All of them banned while sex with hitler, my mom is a futanari and all sorts of weird content are allowed here. As a neptunia fan I was also excited for tokyo clanpool and... it got banned too! At least GOG is accepting these games, but it really sucks having to change platforms after so many years using steam. If only they hadn't changed their policies to screw with most japanese games...

I keep seeing people compare games that don't have depictions of kids in sexual situations vs games banned for having depictions of children in sexual situations.

Its really telling.

I see... so it's fine if it's sexual content making a parody about a nazi or games featuring incest, but characters looking young is going too far (and they're not even porn games).

I think it actually says a lot more about you tbh

[yankees992007]

Average New Yorker eredeti hozzászólása:

Mad Scientist eredeti hozzászólása:

So, what already exists, then.

These threads happen practically every time an anime-style game is denied in review or is banned from Steam. It's almost always for clearly sexualizing characters portrayed as children or the appearance of sexual situations involving minors. The difference here is the non-anime games hit for these reasons, don't have people rushing to defend it as when they find out why Valve denies games, it's usually "asset flip or "Yikes!" due to depictions of minors in sexual situations, as most individuals are against that entirely.


People need to be more honest in that they appear to look like children or aren't made to obviously appear as adults.


People say this as well practically every time an anime game gets denied. Again, if you believe another game slipped through review; report it on the product page. Though those approved tend to not depict minors in sexual situations or sexualize minors.

Games not coming to Steam if it was denied unless Valve gave the option to address and fix the issue, but usually denying for those reasons is not up for revisiting. So if that was the reason; the rules for Developers already exist and are there for Devs to read before making/trying to sell a game on Steam.

To address the point of childlikeness. I'm never afraid to point out if a character is a minor. But due to the stylization of anime sometimes older characters look younger, and in some people's eyes all anime characters seem like minors. It's becomes convoluted and a case by case basis depending on who you ask if a character seems like a minor except if explicitly drawn and stated as such.

Next you are right when you say the established rules do exist, but they seem inconsistent in which games they get applied to for similar content. Which is why I asked for re-examination of the rules, not for those games to come back onto steam, even if I wanted it to. I can easily buy them on another platform if wanted to. I'm aware that denied games cannot be reapply for release.

And lastly, im sure any game that I could report has been reported already and yet are still on.

Jesus Christ, I don't know why people defend pedophile activity. By reading those two games. It clear they do break not only steam rules but US federal laws on minors and sexual activity regarding minors.

The description of the game is enough to tell it for pedo not normal people would seriously seek out those types of games.

[Komarimaru]

Suteri eredeti hozzászólása:

Mad Scientist eredeti hozzászólása:

I keep seeing people compare games that don't have depictions of kids in sexual situations vs games banned for having depictions of children in sexual situations.

Its really telling.

I see... so it's fine if it's sexual content making a parody about a nazi or games featuring incest, but characters looking young is going too far (and they're not even porn games).

I think it actually says a lot more about you tbh

Looking too young, is very much going too far, correct. It should never even be implied that children are in such a scenario ever.