Port Valve's Source games to 64-bit

[Xinto]

As the title suggests, I would like to see (some of, if not all) Valve's games ported to 64-bit. The Source engine is more than capable of running on x86_64, as seen with CS:GO, meaning it *shouldn't* be hard to update the games and their respective steam app metadata to support 64-bit. The latest versions of macOS dropped support for the 32-bit apps entirely, meaning I can't run some of my favourite games: Portal, Portal 2, HL, HL2, L4D, L4D2 and so on. I know, macOS player count is very low and making updates just for them doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do, but it's not just macOS. Windows and Linux users would also greatly benefit from this, since 64-bit executables *do* run faster, as there's no need to use the SYSWOW64 or libstc32 compatibility layers. The performance benefit *will* be minimal, but it's a step forward to ditching old, limited 32-bit systems.

Apart from that, I'd really like if Garry's Mod was available for 64-bit machines, but that's most likely outside of Valve's reach and it's a bit off-topic anyway.

It would also be great if the (major) mod developers updated their mods accordingly. Such as: Portal Reloaded, Portal: Stories Mel, Aperture Tag, Thinking with Time Machine and countless others I haven't even heard of.

Speaking as a developer myself, as long as all of the linked libraries support compiling to 64-bit, it shouldn't really take more than a week for a single or at most 2-3 people to recompile the games and update their metadata.

Please Valve, give macOS a chance.

[Start_Running]

WHat do they gain from that. I mean. apples assinine restrictions aside. 32 bit games run in 64 bit systems just fine.

[Satoru]

“I am a developer” yet seemingly thinks that you check a box and magically a 64 bit exe comes out the other side, somehow ignoring that game engines are not a single thing but a conglomeration of dozens of middleware that all barely work together as it is.

[Mailer]

CSGO is a custom breed of Source Engine, though. It's gone through a lot of band-aid solutions and CS2 is their departure from having to patch things up anymore.

I'm pretty sure Valve just wants to distance themselves from Source 1 at this point. The number of people left working there that even know how Source 1 works is likely on the decline.

The accommodation for the Steam Deck was probably the last major under-the-hood change that they will ever do to their old roster, outside of stability and security improvements.

[Xinto]

Publicado originalmente por Satoru:

“I am a developer” yet seemingly thinks that you check a box and magically a 64 bit exe comes out the other side, somehow ignoring that game engines are not a single thing but a conglomeration of dozens of middleware that all barely work together as it is.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but yes, that's how compilers work. You pass the compilation targets to the compiler and it "magically" outputs the binaries necessary to run the program on the specified architectures. I did not say that it was 100% possible and I also didn't say that game engines are easy to work with, but seeing how CS:GO manages just fine, it's a fair thing to assume that other games could also be compiled to 64-bit machines, right? I mean, 64-bit exists for a long, long time and the games I specified mostly came out long after 64-bit machines started dominating the market. If it really is hard to compile to this "new" target, then I don't really force them to update their Source branch to the one that supports 64-bits. All I'm asking is for them to *consider* doing it. Just as I said, if it is as easy as adding a compilation target/clicking a single button, then it shouldn't really take a long time/resources for them. What are they losing anyway?

[Crazy Tiger]

Publicado originalmente por Xinto:

What are they losing anyway?

Time they likely want to spend on other things.

[Xinto]

Publicado originalmente por Mailer:

CSGO is a custom breed of Source Engine, though. It's gone through a lot of band-aid solutions and CS2 is their departure from having to patch things up anymore.

I'm pretty sure Valve just wants to distance themselves from Source 1 at this point. The number of people left working there that even know how Source 1 works is likely on the decline.

The accommodation for the Steam Deck was probably the last major under-the-hood change that they will ever do to their old roster, outside of stability and security improvements.

Honestly, this is a fair point. There are probably lots of new people working at Valve who only know stuff about Source 2, which is fine, really, I understand why they want to continue working for an amazing new engine, rather than the amazing engine that *was* Source. But, seeing that old games still get small updates (security fixes, crash fixes, etc), it makes me think that there are at least 5 people left just maintaining old games. Those 5 people managed to spin up Steam Deck and proper controller support, as well as include necessary libraries for Linux to work properly (If I recall correctly, they added Vulkan support to Portal 2 about a year or 2 ago), which is not an easy thing to do. Probably even harder than compiling to 64-bit.

[Xinto]

Publicado originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Publicado originalmente por Xinto:

What are they losing anyway?

Time they likely want to spend on other things.

But they already are maintaining some of the old games? They have different teams for doing different kind of work. Also, what would a 1 week difference make? If it takes more than a week then they're free not to do anything. All I'm asking is to update the games *if* it's easy for them to do so.

[Cathulhu]

Patching/updating a game is different from updating an engine without breaking it for all games that use it.
I concur that the necessary money and time required to port all games to 64Bit Source would be certainly used better to maybe port all games to Source2, although i suspect that won't happen.

A lot of the people that made those great games are gone from Valve. Their focus changed a lot. All their current games, with the exception of Half Life Alyx are live service games designed to generate constant revenue.
That doesn't fit their previous games that were a one time purchase and that's it.

HL: Alyx mainly was created to promote the Valve Index VR gear, which worked great as it not only is a good game in its own right, it also demonstrated the strengths of the Valve Index, especially the controllers.

[Xinto]

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

WHat do they gain from that. I mean. apples assinine restrictions aside. 32 bit games run in 64 bit systems just fine.

Well, Apple removed the 32-bit support too early, but that doesn't mean that others won't follow. It's only a matter of time until others follow (Apart from Microsoft maybe, because removing Win32 support will be DISASTROUS to them). Most of the Linux distributions have been ditching x86 (by default) as early as 2019 and 2020. Most of them require you to explicitly add 32-bit repositories to your config before you can use the 32-bit-only binaries.

[Xinto]

Publicado originalmente por Cathulhu:

Patching/updating a game is different from updating an engine without breaking it for all games that use it.
I concur that the necessary money and time required to port all games to 64Bit Source would be certainly used better to maybe port all games to Source2, although i suspect that i won't happen.

A lot of the people that made those great games are gone from Valve. Their focus changed a lot. All their current games, with the exception of Half Life Alyx are live service games designed to generate constant revenue.
That doesn't fit their previous games that were a one time purchase and that's it.

HL: Alyx mainly was created to promote the Valve Index VR gear, which worked great as it not only is a good game in its own right, it also demonstrated the strengths of the Valve Index, especially the controllers.

We all know they won't port any games to Source 2 anytime soon (see you in a decade, maybe?), which is why I'm only asking for this small (at least, to me) thing. If it's hard for them, then again, I don't force them to. I just want to at least receive some kind of feedback, on whether it's possible or not.

[Crazy Tiger]

Publicado originalmente por Xinto:

Publicado originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Time they likely want to spend on other things.

But they already are maintaining some of the old games? They have different teams for doing different kind of work. Also, what would a 1 week difference make? If it takes more than a week then they're free not to do anything. All I'm asking is to update the games *if* it's easy for them to do so.

Even if it's easy, that still doesn't mean people at Valve are interested in doing it. MacOS is unlikely to be any form of priority for Valve, they're far more interested in Linux.

There are quite a lot of suggestions that wouldn't take much time. They all don't get implemented as they're simply not high on priority lists at Valve, if they're on there at all.

Publicado originalmente por Xinto:

I just want to at least receive some kind of feedback, on whether it's possible or not.

Valve employees don't answer here. So you won't get such feedback.

[Cathulhu]

Publicado originalmente por Xinto:

We all know they won't port any games to Source 2 anytime soon (see you in a decade, maybe?), which is why I'm only asking for this small (at least, to me) thing. If it's hard for them, then again, I don't force them to. I just want to at least receive some kind of feedback, on whether it's possible or not.

Considering that Valve only reads suggestions but does not reply to them, you will have to wait for longer than you'd like, or live. Whatever comes first.

[Xinto]

Publicado originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Publicado originalmente por Xinto:

But they already are maintaining some of the old games? They have different teams for doing different kind of work. Also, what would a 1 week difference make? If it takes more than a week then they're free not to do anything. All I'm asking is to update the games *if* it's easy for them to do so.

Even if it's easy, that still doesn't mean people at Valve are interested in doing it. MacOS is unlikely to be any form of priority for Valve, they're far more interested in Linux.

There are quite a lot of suggestions that wouldn't take much time. They all don't get implemented as they're simply not high on priority lists at Valve, if they're on there at all.

Fair point, although I'd really like if game developers took macOS more seriously than it is now. I guess it's Apple's fault for not being active in supporting developers using Metal.

[Xinto]

Publicado originalmente por Cathulhu:

Publicado originalmente por Xinto:

We all know they won't port any games to Source 2 anytime soon (see you in a decade, maybe?), which is why I'm only asking for this small (at least, to me) thing. If it's hard for them, then again, I don't force them to. I just want to at least receive some kind of feedback, on whether it's possible or not.

Considering that Valve only reads suggestions but does not reply to them, you will have to wait for longer than you'd like, or live. Whatever comes first.

Haha, I am willing to pay that price :D

[Cathulhu]

Publicado originalmente por Xinto:

Fair point, although I'd really like if game developers took macOS more seriously than it is now. I guess it's Apple's fault for not being active in supporting developers using Metal.

Instead of doing that Metal API nonsense, they could have gone Vulkan, that already existed and could have been used without any licensing fees.

But no, they had to do their own proprietary nonsense, as usual.
Just like their nonsense with finally supporting USB ports and still doing proprietary male cow excrement.