note lots of steam community forum users banned

[76561199496784570]

its concerning because most of these people aren't doing anything wrong and are being subject to inconsistent and aggressive banning practices by steam.


as a result, i think steam should start posting moderator accounts next to the banned persons name where is says "Banned" it should show the community who has banned them, and the reason why.

why they should do this?

because steam moderation itself needs to be investigated because of the way it acts out against typical non threatening users. that by disclosing the moderator who is banning individuals we as a community can see who the problem is, we can then report it directly to steam support that hey this moderator is acting out against users, is conspiring with malicious groups on the forums and is generally in violation of moderation rights.

i will agree that sometimes we all deserve a ban for something we might of wrongfully said or engaged in activity, however there is a point that it becomes excessive and malicious, because moderators are just people to and they seem to make more mistakes then typical users do.

Clarity is needed to protect the community from this malicious banning and forum moderation abuse.



update:

ever user on this thread has been linked together in a group as a toxic and user reporter seeking to ban the content of others from the forum, i knew this would easily get all of your attention and put you all in a nice place out of the the general "steam community" main threads.

this is why this topic is still active and this account isn't banned because the moderator you all work with is not allowed to control topic views on this discussion thread section of steam.

while i find it rather annoying and some what childish that you all goto such great lengths to lie about steam users and try to harass and belittle them, and try to get them banned. i am somewhat not suprised. this is the typical behavior that can be seen by social groupings

I hope that some serious investigation is done into the steam community forum moderation, that steam users can once again find a voice without being berated by the lot of you.


the only person with legit input on this was Kitt who i have noted as being a victim in the past of your little banning game against users.


i personally enjoy that you come at me , and i hope you enjoy that i stand up to you and i will continue to stand up to your shenanigans until this community and steam itself is a better place for all of its users.

my regards to the real moderators who are not manipulated by pettiness and seek only to do a professional and upstanding job, good work, i hope that you will continue to safe guard our community against people that seek to hurt it. such as the ones commenting viciously upon this thread.

i hope that this all sheds real light onto the hostility of user banning going on in the "steam community" threads as the general display can show that most users don't engage in forum responses, it is only these users, who clearly show hostile intent and have personal vendetta's

[76561199496784570]

i believe people are being banned cause of expressing opinion, not because of offensive or toxic behaviour, no don't think anyone on steam is really toxic, most people seem to be banned because they are seeing something bad within steam and speak out against it. this is not offensive or toxic it is simply stating user perception.

the fact that user perception is often times suppressed and disregarded is very troubling, reality is simply perception, how we perceive the world is as important as how we live life. if you see steam as nothing but great, you are not allowing anything better to happen with steam.

meanwhile a user who might see something wrong with steam offers idea's and suggestions to make steam better, for themselves and for others.

you are allowed to think there is nothing wrong with steam, just as they are allowed to think that something is wrong with steam and needs to be changed. that is basic perception.

because everyone is important, there should really be no banning, and only light topic removal and suppress, take for example if a game is talked about badly, not much is done, if a valve game is talked about badly, that topic is suppressed, do you start to see what is now going on?

so if a user talks badly about others, often times the content stays, if a user talks badly about steam they are suddenly banned and the content is removed. this is going into a far deeper debate then simply clarity of moderation bans, but reality is Banning needs to be reserved for extreme cases.

while maybe all steam can do is ban someone, im not sure that is wise, or productive to the forum or community. steam can surely ban people for what ever reason, but the ethical questions are should they really do it? aren't the users the most important thing to steam, without them what does steam become, without discussion or conversation what does the forum become?

lets allow people to speak freely on topics and cut back on user banning, cut back on topic removal, because both of these issues are only a problem because it is being made a problem. i think most people find a majority of topics interesting and enjoy them, so lets not remove the content from the forums.

[76561199496784570]

my only suggestion is that if you do not like the content or discussion of the thread you are welcome to avoid the thread and find one of the many other threads on the forum to comment on.

thank you for continuing to enjoy steam forums and being a important part of the community.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

my only suggestion is that if you do not like the content or discussion of the thread you are welcome to avoid the thread and find one of the many other threads on the forum to comment on.

thank you for continuing to enjoy steam forums and being a important part of the community.

And if one doesn't like the rules of the forums, they're free not to post on them..

[76561199496784570]

long as it is productive conversation i don't see any reason why posting would be a issue. you can add all kinds of topic content, to progress the thread, don't we all want the steam forums to be a place for people to enjoy themselves.

to make great new inspiring content that progress's the development of steam.

I feel that not only should moderation be more transparent, but it would also be a good idea to have moderators complete moderation history under View, including the ability to see all user bans and thread deletions. locks. topic removal, suppression and bans they have given, when you look at there profile.

we could even show banned by this user, and reversed by this other moderator. the point is moderation needs to be accountable. a moderator could do 9 outta 10 things right, but that 1 thing wrong, that 1 time they just ban a user that doesn't deserve it could cost steam that user ever doing business with them again. That is pretty serious.

Steam already name shames individual accounts on the forum, so that if a user is banned they have a big red highlited "Banned" next to there name even on forum threads they posted in the past. This should not really be happening, because steam is shaming that account and that in itself is very problematic for the user.

So the take away is Moderator should have to wear that ban hand out like a badge since the users do. that a moderator who gets to hide behind a wall of invisibility has no accountability.

[Tanoomba]

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

i believe people are being banned cause of expressing opinion, not because of offensive or toxic behaviour

Then you're gravely mistaken.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

no don't think anyone on steam is really toxic

I assure you: Toxic people exist.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

the fact that user perception is often times suppressed and disregarded is very troubling,

But that's not a "fact" at all.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

but reality is Banning needs to be reserved for extreme cases.

That is a recipe for disaster.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

while maybe all steam can do is ban someone, im not sure that is wise,

Oh, it's wise.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

but the ethical questions are should they really do it?

And the ethical answer is yes, they should.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

aren't the users the most important thing to steam

That's exactly WHY we need moderation.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

so lets not remove the content from the forums.

Toxic rhetoric is not "content".

[Tanoomba]

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

long as it is productive conversation i don't see any reason why posting would be a issue.

It's not an issue. "Productive content" doesn't get people banned.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

it would also be a good idea to have moderators complete moderation history under View

This would just subject moderators to harassment and hate campaigns.

[Thermal Lance]

Do I need to point out that you cannot reasonably know that they did nothing wrong. The posts concerned are often deleted and the post that is marked is obviously lacking in context. Even myself I got funky ban messages but I guarantee you I deserved it.

Before the paid mod took over. People were blaming the "cabal" of volunteer moderators. When the paid mods started to step in, people still blamed the VMods when they were not even the ones issuing the bans. And now that the VMods are completely retired, you blame the paid mod for having issues or whatever.

Did it ever occur to you that you and your pals MIGHT just very well be the problem here? Ever heard of that silly joke about the taxi driver calling the cops because literally everyone was driving on the wrong side of the road?

Just how much of this nonsense will be required for people to finally grow some level of personal responsability?

[Thermal Lance]

There is no benefits to give a pass to people routinely breaking rules. Ignorance is not an excuse. Actual mistakes can be appealed as it has been pointed out to you by Brian I think and CLEARLY you didn't take note.

Moderation history is indeed taken into account. If you call this "harassment" or "silencing", I am sorry to be the 7843563987 person to tell you but that's a "you" problem. This is how moderation work and always worked. You don't just come back with a clean slate after your ban expire.

[Tito Shivan]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Thermal Lance:

Do I need to point out that you cannot reasonably know that they did nothing wrong.

I need to point out some people complaining know too well they did something wrong. In fact some people even keep coming back to continue whenever their last account gets banned.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

a moderator who gets to hide behind a wall of invisibility has no accountability.

Which is a flat out lie and you know it. You people only want a name to take your pound of flesh and construct your conspiracy theories around them.

You can request your 'accountability' through the ban notice or a support ticket.

[Sleepy Yoshi]

It's still not even clear to me how the public could ever hold moderators accountable even if all data was transparent. If it's transparent what actually changes? You would still appeal the ban in the exact same manner and support would ultimately decide via their own data and discretion whether the ban should be upheld or reversed.

Perhaps if you disagree with their decision you come to the forums to show others said unjust ban, but this too is the current status quo. An individual's or the communities agency does not increase, so I'm failing to see what the benefit is overall even if we disregard the witch hunt this would create.

[Tanoomba]

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

subjecting moderators to harassment and hate campaigns that regular users are already subject to?

... by other users, who can then be reported and face consequences. Let me be clear: NOBODY is saying harassment is OK when it comes from certain people.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

i can see that i am already personally being harassed and have a hate campaign against me. so explain to me why a moderator shouldn't have to deal with what i have to deal with?

Wait, what? What harassment and hate campaign? Surely, you don't mean people civilly disagreeing with your (at best) questionable suggestions?

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

i have made some very good points on the topic

Have you? You have started with the mindset that people shouldn't face consequences for toxic behavior, then worked backwards to try to come up with a rationale that justifies such a stance. Perhaps you believe that expressing a poorly thought-out point civilly and using polite language gives it more weight, but a bad idea is a bad idea.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

which results in removing users discussion rights

They don't have "discussion rights". If they can't follow the rules, they will (and should) face consequences.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

and over all creating more hostility and discontent within a other wise very friendly community of several 100 users.

You don't reduce hostility by allowing it to run rampant, consequence-free.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

why should steam moderators hide from the users who stand out and stand up to the bullying and systematic harassment they are victims of when moderators choose to make bad decisions.

Well, that's a disingenuous statement if I ever heard one. You are not being "bullied" or "systematically harassed" if you face the predictable and reasonable consequences of choosing to break forum rules. And while moderators may make mistakes from time to time, they don't "choose" to make bad decisions.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

some content doesn't have place on the forum, but even so that is not a reason to harshly ban someone

Actually, that's a great reason to ban someone.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

Banning is the highest level tier punishment a moderator can give someone

Is it? How so? Most bans are temporary and give the offender a chance to cool off (which is often all they need to correct their behavior).

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

i compare banning to systematically pulling a gun out on someone an silencing them with it.

That's an absurd false equivalence and doesn't help you sound reasonable.

[Tito Shivan]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Thermal Lance:

Did it ever occur to you that you and your pals MIGHT just very well be the problem here?

Some have had the audacity to state they're here for the sole purpose of being toxic and will keep coming back with alt accounts the moment they get banned.

Now tell me what's the point of 'retaining' such users in the community.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Sleepy Yoshi:

It's still not even clear to me how the public could ever hold moderators accountable even if all data was transparent. If it's transparent what actually changes?

The demand for 'transparency' is for the most part a tool to be used by toxic actors in order to strongarm moderation into their bidding through social engineering.

Ironically, such 'transparency' needs to be two-fold in order to function. It also needs transparency from the user side. But that's often a thing that's conveniently left out when discussing the subject.

Want transparency? OK. We need Steam to show the number of bans each forum user has first, so we can know with transparency who are we talking with (Thing is already a feature, mod eyes only)

[BJWyler]

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

subjecting moderators to harassment and hate campaigns that regular users are already subject to? i did explain that hiding and protecting moderation gives them zero accountability into what they do, who they hurt, and over all the abuse in which they create.

That is completely false. The moderators are held accountable - to their managers and to the business that hires them. That is the ONLY place that accountability does and should lay. General users should never be given any ability to hold any moderator accountable no more than any customer of Target is given the ability to hold an employee accountable for their actions. Mob Rules should never be a thing.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

i can see that i am already personally being harassed and have a hate campaign against me. so explain to me why a moderator shouldn't have to deal with what i have to deal with?

People disagreeing with you, and pointing out the very obvious flaws in your logic and argument is not harassment or hate. It's actual debate and discussion. And it's already been explained. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

if a lowly user account like me, can simple be harassed to no end with any thread content i create, countless quotes and topic arguments from high level steam users, then i doubt a moderator who has so much more at there disposal has to worry.

If you are being harassed, then report it to the proper authorities. That can be Steam Support, or even your local law enforcement, depending on the nature of the harassment.

And past history of doxing, threats, and other genuine hate campaigns against developers and moderators say without a doubt that you are 100% incorrect on this line of reasoning.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

somewhere i am seeing this "its ok if we ban you, but its not ok if you ban us or stop us from banning you" discussion going on.

They are doing the job they are paid to do. Simple as. If you break the rules, they are supposed to do their job. Just because you don't like the rules, or the punishment that results from breaking them doesn't mean moderators are doing anything wrong. If you don't like the rules, you are 1000% free to go find a forum where the rules are more to you liking.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

i have made some very good points on the topic,

No you haven't. All you have used are false equivalencies and failed logic.

Speaking of which:

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

you however have defended your own points of interest which is not for the users of steam, but for moderators who again have zero accountability for the actions they take against typical users.

The arguments presented here represent the best interests of ALL users of these forums, including the ones who do not wish (nor should) be subjected to trolls or edgelords at every turn. Again, it is not the responsibility of common users to hold any moderator accountable for their job - that is simply a recipe for disaster.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

which results in removing users discussion rights, stopping them from engaging in said free forum use,

There are no rights in a privately own discussion forum. The only rights any user has is the freedom to follow the rules, or go elsewhere if they feel the rules don't suit their own personal viewpoint.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

and over all creating more hostility and discontent within a other wise very friendly community of several 100 users.

The only hostility that ever comes from the current system are from those who believe the rules should not apply to them, and those who believe that they should be able to say whatever they want regardless of who may be offended or harassed by the comments. In other words, the only hostility comes from those who prefer to be disruptive, trollish, and edgelords. Which ruins the experience for all the other users who understand how to be part of civil discourse and a contributing member of a community and society as a whole.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

i just feel like im knocking my head off a wall repeatedly every time i read a comment of a suspicious steam user who has higher levels on steam , then i own games on my pc. and lemme tell you i have alot of games on my pc alot are from steam, but many of them aren't.

Failed logic once again. There are no tiers of levels for Steam users. We are all equal under Valve's eyes. There are only those who can follow the rules, which is the vast majority of the users of this platform, and those who simply would rather be disruptive and refuse to follow the rules, of which there are very few, thankfully, and which is kept in check by the current moderation system.

Opprinnelig skrevet av my little unicorn:

i compare banning to systematically pulling a gun out on someone an silencing them with it. there are more peaceful solutions that do not include trying to eliminate the internet persona of a individuals forum presence.

A false equivalency spoken from someone who clearly never had a gun shoved in their face. It takes a lot for me to reach even the lowest level of disgust, so you can pat yourself on the back for breaking that threshold. And it is that very mentality that brings about statements like this that proves moderation is absolutely necessary in a forum space, and that some people absolutely do not deserve to have an forum presence in a place where people desire to have civil discourse and be members of a productive community.

[76561199496784570]

I still believe that transparency into moderator activity will benefit the community as a whole, it will allow users to see how moderation is handling things, it will also allow better moderation practices as moderators will want to shine in front of the community and be respected an loved , much like we should view enforcement officers that is here to serve and protect.

steam moderators are here to serve and protect steam users.

while getting offended over such topics is clearly a personal issue, one would hope that a user who can not control themselves would seek to remove themselves from the topic.

this is a discussion , it is not a place to promote hate speech or negative views of topic discussion or at users.

I hope you can all find better ways to express yourself that doesn't become counter productive to the steam experience and its growth.

[Aachen]

Moderators aren’t cops.