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Valve Employee
Since the release of The Following for Dying Light we have noticed a number of users that received a VAC ban were unaware that VAC had been enabled. Due to unclear messaging we have decided to remove these VAC bans and are working with Techland to include VAC protected messaging.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/456e3z/comment/d016ujx/
Why are you quoting this?
-> Why <- are you quoting this, not from when the post was created (thread is not mine btw)
Official reply here
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/456e3z/comment/d016ujx/
Ok apologies, I forgot to place that response in the post. The response was supposed to be part of the post and it's there now.
1. Pointless - it’s a ban, not a traffic light.
2. Nope. We’re not giving trolls and grievers a badge of honour - we have enough issues with ban collectors. When it just says “game ban”, they know others might think they’re cheaters as well - it’s a deterrent.
3.No, it’s a game ban. A person is a bad actor after the first infringement. Other players have a right to know who they’re playing with. Don’t want the text? Don’t break the rules.
In the end, this is another thread that simply focuses on how “awful” all this is for those who get banned and not on how damaging their actions are to the whole community. The banned parties aren’t the victims.
This is a misconstruct.
Harassment, trolling, CAN lead to ruining the game for others, but not necessarely.
When you join a call of duty lobby, you expect harassment. It just goes with the package. Banning someone for harassment on a call of duty lobby is fair, but activision only does for edge scenarios. Otherwise they would have no clients.
The entire premise of Rust is built around griefing and trolling, so if a dev doesn't like a player and bans him for griefing on Rust just to rid that player of the game is an situation allowed by the current system (even if the player can appeal).
Cheating is the only scenario where it's generally aggred upon it's BAD and the gamer community all aggre. The only exceptions are where anti-cheating isn't concerned, like singleplayer games (skyrim) or private matches (cs:go LAN with the boys).
Please do not use your gaming experiences as a rule for the experience of the general gaming community, thank you.
It's a ban from a single game, while a VAC is a ban for all multiplayer VAC games. A trade ban bans ALL trades.
The meaning is lost if the impact (even a simple font colour) is the same as a VAC ban. Alas, valve also words the developer ban in a way that they consider the VAC ban the same impact as a developer ban.
"Ban collectors" was a issue of the past, it's been resolved. I don't see current issues, do point them out though.
So if I get banned for griefing by exploding a child's house in minecraft people will think I'm a cheater. Yeah, thanks.
Altough there is a contract between the player and the company when one uses their product, there is a certain degree of abuse possible when that contract has ramifications to the user experience on the platform holder.
The post is aimed at trying to correct the platform holder's interpretation of the information the game company gives to them. I believe that's fair.
The text is fine. The presentation is not.
Crazy you say that, because 4 out of the 5 links in my thread point to victims of bans. One of them doesn't even have a mechanic for an unban.
I still fail to see how your suggestions help the developers and innocent players who were grieved, harassed and had their games ruined by cheaters.
Right, now it still simply focuses on making life less awful for people who broke the rules.
4 links. It leads to multiple cases of multiple users.
Even if it where only 4 people, so what? I thought ban systems where supposed to strive for no false positives has one of the major goals?
Developer bans still doesn't let the player play the game in question in multiplayer modes, or any more restrictions the developer imposes. It doesn't help the developers, but neither does it hinders them. It stays the exact same as the old system for developers.
Cheaters? I thought you where arguing the developer ban being about harassment was a good thing? See how even you keep confusing a game ban with a vac ban? You prove my point yet again.
Rules of a single game, but noooo now he's not welcome in every game, amazing!
Let me clarify again that caution is still bad. When you tell your friend in real life that someone is dangerous you avoid that person. If you tell your friend instead to exercise caution against that person your friend will have a level of skepticism but still won't exercise friendliness over that person will he?
Except the edge case scenarios which you didn't care about as you stated.
Valve cares about edge cases, showing with the unbans of the thread. In particular the dying light unbans.
There is no explicit meaning of "cheater". You can collect game bans for cheating, sure. You can also collect them for spewing racist BS that gets reported to the devs, or hac king stats, o9r any other of a myriad of transgressions.
VAC is explicitly a "cheating" flag. They arent the same and that some minority of people thinks so isnt a problem.
No, you dont get to know why anyone has been banned - that isnt your business or concern.
No, developers do not have to abide by what YOU think is "fair".
I havent been VAC or game banned in any game in 19+ years on Steam. The people who collect such things deserve them, and innocent "victims", those very, VERY rare cases are remediated. Your use case is limited and nonsensical to the point I suspect youre just advocating for yourself.
*sigh* Are you confused?
Game bans can be for harassment, grieving or CHEATING. Vac bans are only for cheats, game bans include anything the developer considers disruptive.
From the FAQ:
So, if a ban is incorrectly applied the developer can choose to remove it which renders all these suggestions moot.
It just sounds like you want to water down the "Game Ban" system so that they appear less serious than a Vac ban on the user's profile. They're not though; they're equally as destructive and disruptive to other innocent players' games.
Minority? Have you even seen the blue checkmark twitter fiasco that ensued just moments ago?
But we already do. Someone can get a community ban which we assume is for being a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, someone can get a trade ban which we assume is a thief, someone can get a VAC ban which we assume is a cheater.
These prevail over privacy settings, there is no privacy setting hide the ban tags. There is still privacy friendliness in this. You don't get to see the exact infraction (oh someone spew racist bs or mysoginy or whatever), but you know if someone does harassment or whatever.
If anything, the ban is more specific and more helpful. If you're on lfg and someone shows their profile and you see "Game ban: harassment", some players would take him while others wouldn't. If it said cheating both players wouldn't take him.
Developers have to abide to the rules of steam. Otherwise they can't sell their games on steam. The post is simply a suggestion for steam to change their wording, there isn't a single rule change suggested here.
What I think is fair doesn't matter as the post is a suggestion and it's steam that decides if it gets implemented or not.
Why mention VAC bans? Are you arguing against VAC bans or game bans? You're the second person in the thread that confuses a game ban with a VAC ban, by the way you also mentioned harassment and meta game abuse which is not software cheating. You're all proving yet again people confuse game bans with VAC bans.
False. I have a 9+ old steam profile with over 500 games, I have 3.3k hours in destiny 2 a MMO multiplayer with various pvp and pve competitive elements, I don't have a single community ban / VAC ban / trade ban / game ban. I only made this post because I believe game bans are a problem given the arguments made on the post.
It is sensical to the point where 100% of the people in this thread that argued against game bans confused a game ban with a VAC ban.
By the way my game hours are private, if you want to see them add me on steam so you can see for yourself.
Game bans are serious and you should feel ashamed for getting one, the vast majority of users on steam never have one, nor will they ever have one.
You repeatedly talked about VAC bans in your OP. Again nothing wrong with the bans as they are, your idea would actually upset a lot of people with bans as they wouldn't like steam displaying that they harassed people for instance, or they would argue over the reason the developer banned them claiming it was false. In the end it doesn't matter though.
A ban is a ban, and its something the overwhelming majority of steam users will never see.