Fix local profile saving, need for living room/big picture use.

[ScarletFame]

Steam is moving into the living room console space with big picture mode, family sharing, new controllers, and cheap streaming hardware. However it falls critically short due to one unfathomable design oversight. Steam currently does NOT provide an experience comparable to xbox or playstation in the most basic regard possible: multiple users.

Why should you care? If Valve grows into the living room, it will increase market share and incentivize AAA console ports. Also, you don't need to buy a steam machine to play in the living room, getting a steam link for $50 will do the same job. A better living room experience will be good for your irl friends and your family. It will also help your friends switch from xbox / playstation to steam so they can save money and play online with you. Steam digital distribution will rise, and used games will fall, giving developers continued revenue on steam sales instead of no revenue from used games.

The Problem: If you buy a game on xbox, saves are automatically sorted into folders to correct user accounts. Steam does have a place for saves specific to each user! It's something called the "user id # save folder" or user id folder for short. Steam\userdata\<user-ID>\<APP-ID>\remote\ However most steam games save in other places, making it impossible to share games with local players. You can share your games, but you also have to share your saves. You get one save per steam computer, not per profile. If you can't understand why this is a big deal, call up one of your console gamer friends and ask. (Or former console gamer, whatever.)

However many local users you have on your system is how many times more value you'd get if you bought the same game on xbox or playstation, since you really can only have one save per steam computer, not per profile. You can't share your games with friends or family because they will probably mess up your save, or at least beat the level you were on and that's all sorts of bad too.

Many of you have not tried big picture mode like a console. I assure this save problem is very real. (Also, try gaming in the living room! It's very social and lots of fun!)

Most modern games don't offer multiple save slots, if they do there isn't a way to check on the store page, and steam cloud can overwrite (erase) saves this way. Also most games are limited to 3 save slots, which is still pitiful. Multiple save slots are not the correct long term solution.

(I would also like to see multiple simultaneous sign ins like xbox. Just compare local mp in castle crashers and battle block theater steam versions and xbox versions. This is much less urgent than user id folder standardization, however.)

I propose: All games released in the future should be required to save to user id folder. Valve can work with Unity/Unreal/Gamemaker so that their steam integration is top notch out of the box for indies. Documentation on the Steam API should be made current, clearly written, and as easy to follow as possible. Also, as many older games as possible should be converted to user id folder saving, with valve reaching out to developers to encourage modifying already released games. (User ID save feature should also be shown on store page like steam cloud. However store listing alone will not cure the problem.)

Valve is investing big money into console functionality, and we need the experience to function well throughout. Let Valve know you want your saves to work like a real console. If Valve isn't willing to do the same work as Sony and Microsoft, they can kiss goodbye the living room and all Valve's investments into these new products.

[MainframeMouse]

The short of it is that Steam is not a family friendly system. It was designed as single user and for some reason they're having real difficulty with making it multi-user.

STeam Family Sharing is the mechanics behind making the SteamMachine multi-user.

there's some little program that makes it look like Steam's still running when swapping from one user to another, but the main bulk of Steam still shuts down and restarts as the other user.

VALVe really should have redesigned the basic user handling for their move into the consumer device market. Instead they've bodged on a poor multi-user system, rebranded it as family sharing solutions

While multiple active profiles like the xbox will need developer support to, the current multi-user aspect of the SteamMachines is a joke.

[ScarletFame]

Valve PLEASE fix this.

[Satoru]

The problem isnt steam

Its windows

Windows doesnt support it because youd have to context switch between local accounts to do multi-saves

[Gus the Crocodile]

Originally posted by RyanInk:

Dad wants to buy a singleplayer game, and everyone wants to play through it at least a little. Buy it for steam, oops only one person can play, that's $60 for once person.

Just on this issue specifically; if you use Family Sharing, everyone can play the game dad bought, with their own saves. They just can't do it while dad's playing something else.

[Tev]

Originally posted by Gus the Crocodile:

Originally posted by RyanInk:

Dad wants to buy a singleplayer game, and everyone wants to play through it at least a little. Buy it for steam, oops only one person can play, that's $60 for once person.

Just on this issue specifically; if you use Family Sharing, everyone can play the game dad bought, with their own saves. They just can't do it while dad's playing something else.

I don't think the concrete point is the black & white "Can multiple people play the game or not"; but rather the fact that some games save in to the same location (i.e. C:\Users\<user-name>\Documents\) which renders playing by multiple people difficult on the same device.

Not all games save under Steam\userdata\<user-ID>\<APP-ID>\remote\

[Gus the Crocodile]

Ah yes, I see. Apologies, OP.

[ScarletFame]

Originally posted by Satoru:

The problem isnt steam

Its windows

Windows doesnt support it because youd have to context switch between local accounts to do multi-saves

But valve is selling the pc platform. Valve needs to fix this as they are billing themselves as a console now. Steam is NOT a console and this feature broken system is a poor excuse for a console. Valve is investing $$$$ in taking the living room but are going to provide a horrible experience if it isn't fixed.

[ScarletFame]

Originally posted by Teutep:

Originally posted by Gus the Crocodile:

Just on this issue specifically; if you use Family Sharing, everyone can play the game dad bought, with their own saves. They just can't do it while dad's playing something else.

I don't think the concrete point is the black & white "Can multiple people play the game or not"; but rather the fact that some games save in to the same location (i.e. C:\Users\<user-name>\Documents\) which renders playing by multiple people difficult on the same device.

Not all games save under Steam\userdata\<user-ID>\<APP-ID>\remote\

Pretty much. The steam controller may work as a bandaid for the keyboard but basically all games in catalog (even the old ones) need to save to the steam id folder.

[Tev]

Steam Machines aren't operating on Windows though, unless the user themselves installs it on it.

[ScarletFame]

Originally posted by Teutep:

Steam Machines aren't operating on Windows though, unless the user themselves installs it on it.

Someone on linux/steam os report if this is fixed? I suspect not. Anyway most "steam machines" WILL run windows, as you can install windows on steam machines anyway and most gamers will want their full libraries. Also existing PCs running big picture mode (like mine) are already windows, as well as most custom built PCs will be. Also most streaming stuff will be windows.

Steam = windows. 95% of steam gamers are win. I don't see this changing much with steam machines. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

[Tev]

I agree with you that more games should save under Steam\userdata\<user-ID>\, but developers have to make that change. Which means that this happening retroactively is pretty small.

But as far as things like "people may do"; but aren't 100% supported goes, I unfortunately think it isn't the highest on the priority list. Streamed content is also stored on the streaming device; rather than the device that gets streamed on.

[ScarletFame]

Originally posted by Teutep:

I agree with you that more games should save under Steam\userdata\<user-ID>\, but developers have to make that change. Which means that this happening retroactively is pretty small.

But as far as things like "people may do"; but aren't 100% supported goes, I unfortunately think it isn't the highest on the priority list. Streamed content is also stored on the streaming device; rather than the device that gets streamed on.

Valve needs to throw money at the problem and see what their options are to fix this. If nothing else, all games going forward need to be required to save to user id folder to be released on to steam.

I realize that stuff is stored on the computer doing the streaming, but you still aren't going to have more than one gaming rig per household most likely.

[ScarletFame]

This is a deal breaker for living room use, Valve. PLEASE fix this.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

So say you have a family containing 4 gamers. Dad's a gamer, Mom's a gamer (girl gamers are cool yo), and 2 kids are gamers. Dad wants to buy a singleplayer game, and everyone wants to play through it at least a little. Buy it for steam, oops only one person can play, that's $60 for once person. If you get it for half off it's $30 for one person. Dad buys the game for xbox, the xbox takes care of local saves for each profile and it's $15 per person EVEN AT FULL PRICE. The problem only gets worse if you factor in visiting friends, not just people who live there.

Sounds like the game should just have multiple save slots.

[ScarletFame]

Originally posted by Quint the Coffin Princess:

Sounds like the game should just have multiple save slots.

I address this in my original post. Most games don't, it's workable but annoying when save slots are included for non-user-id saves, and will really screw up your steam cloud. It's not good enough.