Filters

[Polly Esther]

I cannot be the only one to want some useable filters...

I've spent 2 days browsing the Steam catalogue, and it is nothing but crappy clone after crappy clone, Developer No.987,447,293 is of no interest to me, neither is it's 'game'.

If you found the need to add Indie tags to these games, Then you must find a way for us to filter them out of search results.

Right now it is the weekend, there are 223 titles on special in the store front here (Aus).

Around 90% of those are Java/Phone/Crud games that have no purpose on steam, period.

Me not buying them, hurts you, Valve, not 'Developer No.987,447,293" who copies someone elses work, ideas and assets.

It stands to reason that you lose money on server costs hosting these titles that NOONE will buy because they are quite simply, bad.

Yet you refuse to give us an option to filter out all this nasty pollution from the catalogue in our searches.

I'm all for "indie games" but you are taking things too far, by letting every scum bag and his dog release what ever the heck they seem to please on your platform, with little to no screening process? Feels like you are actively trying to alienate the entire PC gaming community.

We are not here for Developer No.987,447,293's new Phone game.

[DoomSplitter]

Allowing users to ignore titles would harm Valve's relationships with their buisness clients (developers and publishers). Would you sell your product at a store where there's a chance that your product could be ignored by a large portion of the userbase? I know I wouldn't.

Also, you can't speak for every Steam user. The word "bad" is completely subjective.

[Polly Esther]

I'd sell my product where I could relevant to the type of prduct being sold, we ALL have the internet here, we all know there are other stores more suited to these type of flash in the pan products.

Yet on the same note I also wouldn't fill my store with "bad" products.

Sure, Bad is a subjective term, but reading through the steam reddits for example? I am not alone in this thinking.

I am not asking for them to be removed, I am not asking for them to be censored or hidden, I am asking for a functional filter for my use, as a customer.

When I walk into a supermarket for vegtables, do they force me down the clothing isles to see all the 'indie' designers products?

No, because I know where they are, I know how to find them, I have eyes and a brain.

If people want to see them, They still can by NOT using the filter, Forcing it upon everyone else hurts their reputation far more than it hurts their relationships with active business clients.

Those who are going to buy it, will still buy it.

Those who don't, will no longer have to wade through a cesspool of waste to find a product they WILL pay for.

The Store front would not change, You would still see all the New/Upcoming on the front and in your Queue, and exposure stays exactly the same, but once I search? There is absolutely no chance I am going to click 99% of the current titles, let alone hover my mouse over one long enough to read it's description.

Sorting by User Reviews helps, until you find games with 3 word reviews, in the Thousands falsifying its status.

If I could click that filter box one more time and put a Cross in it instead of a Tick?

I'd be a less frustrated customer, with easier access to the products that appeal to me, enticing and encouraging more sales for Valve as a whole.

[TheQuixote]

It would be very nice to be able to exclude tags in your personal filters, not just include them.

[Polly Esther]

It amazes me that in 2015 some people can still find this to be seen as an unreasonable request.

There are thousands of titles here now, growing rapidly, by the day.

The core group of people this entire experience was aimed at in are now quite firmly taking second place.

I am ready and willing to use Steam as a platform to purchase digital products on... If I could find those products in a reasonable manner.

As I've said, I am not asking for removal, censorship, region locks or white/blacklists, I am asking for a useable tool to help find the things in this massive catalogue that I will happily spend money on.

This is where Steam's 2 Main competitors are now getting my money.

I keep 2 other "big name" store fronts running on my machine, and as of last week, I now have more titles in those libraries than I do in Steam, Simply because I open thier store, I can find what I want, right there, with a buy button, and not having to scan through 1-2 thousand bits of fluff to get there.

Considering prices on those two unnamed storefronts are, as a rule, higher than Steam's are for AU/Oceanic regions, I have far easier access to thier product catalogues, and lately? a much more enjoyable shopping experience.

[WhiteKnight77]

If you are not interested in 99% of the products here, then why are you even here as there is literally nothing that interests you. There are over 4000 on Steam which means that there are 5-10 games you would only be interested in.

This also means that you can only find 1% of the games you like at other digital stores, even though they carry fewer titles. It is understandable that you would not like games for phones though others do.

The simple fact is, no store will hide anything from customers. You might be able to narrow down what you are looking for, but that still offers many different manufacturers for that specific product. Will some be better than others? Yes, will you like them? Probably not, but instead of complaining about them, just ignore them, just like you do in a brick and mortar store.

[Polly Esther]

Because the few I do like, want, and have no other ways to access are tied into this Catalogue.

The large portion of my games here are from retail, boxed copies for this reason.

We're now at a stage where that is near impossible, as local retailers get/carry less and less products for anything that isn't a console.

Here in Aus we have 2-3 options at retail, and near on every single title you get there, is tied to one of the three main DRM/Storefronts.

So in your logic, I should not purchase anything from here, even though there are great products and titles here?

You are misunderstanding it completly.

No one is asking for things to be hidden.

What has been asked for is a search tool, Just like all the others, to facilitate sales.

In a brick and mortar store, things get categorized just as they do here, yet they are also a lot more discerning about the products they are willing to attach thier names, and reputations upon, because face to face, humans will question it, enquire about it, waste your CS teams time, then on top you have returns, shipping errors/damages, desireability. Most of which is negated using digital distribution.

I can search the FPS section of my local store, and find FPS games a plenty, but I can pick a random category here, and because I cannot over look certain "Tags" that should be thier own category, with a limit of 20 titles per page with in the client, I'm lucky to find 1 appealing game, per page, unless I already know without doubt what title I am after.

After 15 of 200+ pages for any given genre, you simply stop searching and use other means.

Searching for things here? Good luck, You'll get the main contenders on top if you are lucky, and then the rest is swamped by a sea of Indie and casual tags that should be either filterable, or in thier own categories completely.

Again, I am not asking they be hidden, I am not asking they be restriced in ANY way, I am asking for the search tools, to provide better functionality.

I can get on any other High street retailers storefront here, and filter out brands, genres, categories and on some even developers.

These are pretty basic quality of life features.

If exposure/availability is still the issue here, then as you already know using this store, Filters are NOT enabled by default, and are entirely opt-in AFTER you have entered the front page for what ever genre you have picked to browse.

The front page is also filled with promotions and upcoming/new releases for this very reason.

Give Indie titles a bigger section of that for accesibility, but let use filter our 'after the fact', search options.

You also have Curators now, pushing thier exposure skywards even further.

[WhiteKnight77]

Steam does have a search too. It can be seen in this shot of the front store page, as well as in the drop down menu shown. The search box is above the Midweek Madness ad.
Steam Store Front Page[www.whiteknight77.net]

You can browse games by clicking one of these buttons. It works just like any other digital store does.

Why should an indie FPS be sorted separately from a big publisher FPS? What is so different about them outside of the number of people who created the game?

I really dislike RPG games, yet I do not ask Steam for a way to filter them out or worse, hide them from me. It is as simple as ignoring them. No matter if you filter them or just plain ignore any game on Steam, Valve is not going to make any money on them due to you not buying any of them so it does not really matter if they are seen by you even if in passing.

Oh, before most stores here in the US stopped selling or reduced the number of PC games they sell, games were not sorted by genre, but by name. Flight Simulator would precede Ghost Recon followed by Half-Life, followed by World of Warcraft.

[Polly Esther]

Whats so different about them?

Quality.

Value for money.

Support.

Communities.

Care and attention to detail.

Innovation.

Trust.

That in its self is in the eye of the beholder, and as subjective as it comes.

You can't compare your local retailer not taking the effort to setting up their own store, to something as heavily categorized as Steam.

My local retailers keep all thier games in sections, even if not labeled, Sims are with Sims, RPG's are with RPG's, Shooters are with Shooters and Indies are with Indies.

Stores here do not want you spending hours on thier floor with a slack jawed gaze just trying to look through thier stock.

It's not good for business.

[Tito Shivan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez westywestuk:

In a brick and mortar store, things get categorized just as they do here, yet they are also a lot more discerning about the products they are willing to attach thier names, and reputations upon.

That's mostly due to shelf space, nothing more.

If retailers could stock their stores without physical limitations, you could bet both arms they will ship one and every game avaiable, as Steam does.

Do not mistake quality assessments with shipping what it sells fast and high.

[WhiteKnight77]

Początkowo opublikowane przez westywestuk:

Whats so different about them?

Quality.

Value for money.

Support.

Communities.

Care and attention to detail.

Innovation.

Trust.

That in its self is in the eye of the beholder, and as subjective as it comes.

You can't compare your local retailer not taking the effort to setting up their own store, to something as heavily categorized as Steam.

My local retailers keep all thier games in sections, even if not labeled, Sims are with Sims, RPG's are with RPG's, Shooters are with Shooters and Indies are with Indies.

Stores here do not want you spending hours on thier floor with a slack jawed gaze just trying to look through thier stock.

It's not good for business.

I would beg to differ on quality. Just because a publisher sinks millions of dollars into a game, does not mean it is a quality game. Look at the latest release from Sony. While it looks pretty and all, it has been panned for lack of interactivity amongst other things. Sony is also being ripped for H1V1 or what ever it is that is using an Early Access program (I think it is here on Steam) and it still is garbage.

I can look back to a company that won GOTY awards without a large publisher and probably spent no more than $1 million on the entire game. Granted that was almost 20 years ago, but they did.

The quality and care and treatment of the community by the developers or publishers has nothing to do with how much money is sunk into the development of a game, it is based on the company. Brushing all indie devs with a wide brush as you have means you will miss the very things you are looking for.

If you prefer just CoD to something like Rainbow Six (not the Ubified crap either), then you are part of the problem with what is being released by the big publishers who are no longer taking chances with new IPs as much as they used to.

If you want innovation, you should be looking at Ground Branch and not CoD 12 or whatever it is that just came out and was getting panned. If I could open a 200,000 sq. ft store just for video games, it would stock any and all games, not just a few from the big names.

Newflash, big publishers have reduced the number of games that they release over the course of a year. EA released just 11 last year. That is less than 1 a month. Other publishers are doing the same. Valve is in the business of selling games with Steam. They need more than just 40 new games a year to keep its customers happy.

If you already know what you are looking for, use the search box to search for just that.

[Polly Esther]

I will only miss the very things I am looking for, if they are hidden in a sea of crud.

If Indie dev's are so brimming with quality, why do the reviews on this stores own pages beg to differ?

If Indies are more careful and adherant to quality, why do so many of these new 'kickstarter' flops become abandonware within 12months of release (IF they even make it out of beta without turning into a F2P model)?

If these games were worth spending any kind of tangible money and time on them, Brick and mortar stores would happily increase floor space to accomodate.

The problem not being space, but being ALL the refunds, unhappy customers, and feelings of out right being lied to and ripped off, come back to your doorstep, and right into your face, as the name/brand/retailer of said products.

Then that poor guy/gal at the counter, has to deal with all kinds of nasty things Humans like to say when disgruntled.

As time goes on, your reputation steadily falls as you now, promote and endorse the very products that have pushed away your own customers in a bid for 'more cheap sales' over selling in general.

You people need to stop, and read the damn thread.

I WANT NOTHING REMOVED, EDITED, HIDDEN, CRIPPLED, HAMPERED, LOCKED.

I want an option to WALK PAST all the waste on the 'walls' of this store, in to the sections I DO want to shop in.

This started as a suggestion to Steam, and Valve as a whole, not it's users, not it's community, not the players and I no where asked for you to validate in your own opinions how I personally should view "trash games".

As it's clear you guys will just white-knight the issue, I can't help but wonder what you have to gain from limiting MY options to spend money, just as freely AS YOU DO.

I'd hazard a guess you two are part of these so called "Indie" circles, Yet thats just speculation on my account, and bad form on yours.

Hell, your name alone writes your opinions off as invalid in my eyes, Whiteknight77.

Care to tell us wich "Dev" you are/Work for/Profit from?

Now again incase you missed it for a 4th time.

I WANT NOTHING REMOVED, EDITED, HIDDEN, CRIPPLED, HAMPERED, LOCKED.

I want to filter out things of no interest, no value, I don't want to have to walk into the Women's underwear section, to look for Mens Shaving foam in a store, I would imagine neither would you.

Why insist on forcing it on us here?

One last time, Just for you to get it...

I WANT NOTHING REMOVED, EDITED, HIDDEN, CRIPPLED, HAMPERED, LOCKED.

[WhiteKnight77]

Początkowo opublikowane przez westywestuk:

I will only miss the very things I am looking for, if they are hidden in a sea of crud.

If Indie dev's are so brimming with quality, why do the reviews on this stores own pages beg to differ?

If Indies are more careful and adherant to quality, why do so many of these new 'kickstarter' flops become abandonware within 12months of release (IF they even make it out of beta without turning into a F2P model)?

If these games were worth spending any kind of tangible money and time on them, Brick and mortar stores would happily increase floor space to accomodate.

The problem not being space, but being ALL the refunds, unhappy customers, and feelings of out right being lied to and ripped off, come back to your doorstep, and right into your face, as the name/brand/retailer of said products.

Then that poor guy/gal at the counter, has to deal with all kinds of nasty things Humans like to say when disgruntled.

As time goes on, your reputation steadily falls as you now, promote and endorse the very products that have pushed away your own customers in a bid for 'more cheap sales' over selling in general.

You people need to stop, and read the damn thread.

I WANT NOTHING REMOVED, EDITED, HIDDEN, CRIPPLED, HAMPERED, LOCKED.

I want an option to WALK PAST all the waste on the 'walls' of this store, in to the sections I DO want to shop in.

This started as a suggestion to Steam, and Valve as a whole, not it's users, not it's community, not the players and I no where asked for you to validate in your own opinions how I personally should view "trash games".

As it's clear you guys will just white-knight the issue, I can't help but wonder what you have to gain from limiting MY options to spend money, just as freely AS YOU DO.

I'd hazard a guess you two are part of these so called "Indie" circles, Yet thats just speculation on my account, and bad form on yours.

Hell, your name alone writes your opinions off as invalid in my eyes, Whiteknight77.

Care to tell us wich "Dev" you are/Work for/Profit from?

Now again incase you missed it for a 4th time.

I WANT NOTHING REMOVED, EDITED, HIDDEN, CRIPPLED, HAMPERED, LOCKED.

I want to filter out things of no interest, no value, I don't want to have to walk into the Women's underwear section, to look for Mens Shaving foam in a store, I would imagine neither would you.

Why insist on forcing it on us here?

One last time, Just for you to get it...

I WANT NOTHING REMOVED, EDITED, HIDDEN, CRIPPLED, HAMPERED, LOCKED.

I do not work for any developer. I have interviewed a couple of them over the years. I have seen behind the scenes of game development and it isn't pretty. That I have seen the trials and tribulations of developers gives me some standing unlike those who just wish to complain about what they see on a store.

I have seen how hard it is to try and secure funding and the results of it. I have seen the time it took to get even the most basic of features working, the one most wanted by game fans. Sadly, most do not realize that the underlying programming means more to a game compared to how well a game looks.

Can you tell me how much the Unreal 4 engine costs a month? What about CryEngine? What does Photoshop run? What does 3D Studio Max run?

Those all have subscription based licensing though you could outright by 3DSM for $3675. How many games does one need to sell to buy that including Steams 30%?

Valve started Steam as a way to distribute games. It first started with their own games then they branched out, which endeared it to more gamers. They kept adding games and the like and more customers were added. Then the market changed as I already noted above.

What you are wanting is the store to cater to you no matter what anyone else wants or cares about. No store caters to just one person, they are developed to cater to the masses. What you like or dislike is completely different compared to what others like or dislike.

Steam has no shelf space so the number of games they can carry has no limit.

If you want nothing hidden, removed, crippled, hampered or locked, then why a big diatribe about just wanting a better search feature? Why do you have to call things crud? I think Team Fortress 2 is crud, yet I don't care if I see it on the front page or in any surfing of the store I may do. It really does not matter.

[Fox]

Początkowo opublikowane przez westywestuk:

I cannot be the only one to want some useable filters...

I've spent 2 days browsing the Steam catalogue, and it is nothing but crappy clone after crappy clone, Developer No.987,447,293 is of no interest to me, neither is it's 'game'.

If you found the need to add Indie tags to these games, Then you must find a way for us to filter them out of search results.

Right now it is the weekend, there are 223 titles on special in the store front here (Aus).

Around 90% of those are Java/Phone/Crud games that have no purpose on steam, period.

Me not buying them, hurts you, Valve, not 'Developer No.987,447,293" who copies someone elses work, ideas and assets.

It stands to reason that you lose money on server costs hosting these titles that NOONE will buy because they are quite simply, bad.

Yet you refuse to give us an option to filter out all this nasty pollution from the catalogue in our searches.

I'm all for "indie games" but you are taking things too far, by letting every scum bag and his dog release what ever the heck they seem to please on your platform, with little to no screening process? Feels like you are actively trying to alienate the entire PC gaming community.

We are not here for Developer No.987,447,293's new Phone game.

If you want a "negative tag" search where you could exclude games bearing a certain tag, then I wouldn't be against it, as long as it extends to every tag in existence for maximal utility, instead of being confined to the hated genre of the week, just like what happened to Early Access.

If you truly wish to consider the masses' opinion, you'd be better off asking for a classification by steam rating, something I'm sure was asked before.

[Polly Esther]

Finally someone got it.

I want nothing removed, I want to put a damn cross in the box, to NOT have those search results returned.

Anyone who doesn't cross the damn box, gets all their vaporware as usual, no harm is done, nothing is changed.

The nature of filters are purely Opt-in, NOT opt-out. You have to click it to enable the friggin filter, if Steam had a "Do not return" filter, IE; A cross in the box, That would be two clicks, Putting me, the user, in a position to decide...

"Do I want to look through the rubbish for scraps today?"

As for costs?

I've modeled in blender for about 2 years now.

I've textured in Gimp for just as long.

A 'true' low level Dev, would be earning far under the needed threshold for licencing costs to be 'substantial' unless they are shooting above their weight with engines not aimed at them.

UDK is still free.

Cryengine is now on Steam for what was it, 10 bucks a month?

AGK is hardly bank breaking.

UE4 is 20 a month, with a 5% royalty fee when you ship your game.

Why do you think the games coming out lately are by and large, under 30 bucks, with most being under 5.

I want the store to cater to everyone. Not just me, and most certainly not just you.

At the moment, it fails at that, and it is becoming more and more clear they are catering to one crowd, and one crowd alone.

One thing you clearly didn't read Whiteknight77, is that The front page can stay exactly how it is, the queue, the New Releases, the Recomendations, the entire thing, but once I am off the front page, and into searching the catalogue? draconian limitations forcing me to trawl through title after title to find something appealing is the kind of thing most sane humans would walk out of the store for, and find an alternative way to get thier titles.

And we all know the alternative way for Steam games involes wearing an eyepatch.

[WhiteKnight77]

Początkowo opublikowane przez westywestuk:

Finally someone got it.

I want nothing removed, I want to put a damn cross in the box, to NOT have those search results returned.

Anyone who doesn't cross the damn box, gets all their vaporware as usual, no harm is done, nothing is changed.

The nature of filters are purely Opt-in, NOT opt-out. You have to click it to enable the friggin filter, if Steam had a "Do not return" filter, IE; A cross in the box, That would be two clicks, Putting me, the user, in a position to decide...

"Do I want to look through the rubbish for scraps today?"

As for costs?

I've modeled in blender for about 2 years now.

I've textured in Gimp for just as long.

A 'true' low level Dev, would be earning far under the needed threshold for licencing costs to be 'substantial' unless they are shooting above their weight with engines not aimed at them.

UDK is still free.

Cryengine is now on Steam for what was it, 10 bucks a month?

AGK is hardly bank breaking.

UE4 is 20 a month, with a 5% royalty fee when you ship your game.

Why do you think the games coming out lately are by and large, under 30 bucks, with most being under 5.

I want the store to cater to everyone. Not just me, and most certainly not just you.

At the moment, it fails at that, and it is becoming more and more clear they are catering to one crowd, and one crowd alone.

One thing you clearly didn't read Whiteknight77, is that The front page can stay exactly how it is, the queue, the New Releases, the Recomendations, the entire thing, but once I am off the front page, and into searching the catalogue? draconian limitations forcing me to trawl through title after title to find something appealing is the kind of thing most sane humans would walk out of the store for, and find an alternative way to get thier titles.

And we all know the alternative way for Steam games involes wearing an eyepatch.

UDK may be free, but is Unreal 3 and you still have to pay a royalty to Epic if you make more than $50,000 on your game. Cryengine may be $20 a month, but if you stop paying, you can no longer use it unlike Unreal 4.

Sure, there are engines out there that are free, yet there are complaints about developer using those very engines and assets. The developers using Early Access cannot win. People complain about that, that they cost too much, are not finished (of course they are not finished, people are warned about that multiple times even). So how is a developer supposed to develop a game when all people do is complain. It is no wonder big developers/publishers no longer talk to potential customers nowadays.

You missed the last part of my last reply.

If you want just a better search function, then all you needed to do was state that instead that big long post about everything that is wrong with Steam, which many do not find wrong.