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HornyHime Apr 7 @ 4:11am
More stringent requirements for developers of early access games
Hey, everybody!

I think many of you have seen games that have been abandoned by developers and left in eternal early access. Not too long ago Steam started warning that the game hasn't been updated for a long time and it might be abandoned. This is very useful information and can be used to improve early access.

For example:
If a game hasn't been updated in over a year, a warning appears on the game page (already available).
If the game has not been updated for more than three years - Steam has the right to reduce the price of the game itself or to assign discounts to it (abandoned games usually do not participate in sales).
If a game has not been updated for more than five years and is still in early access, Steam has the option to make it free. That's quite a long time, when the developer could make at least a small bug fix or take it out of early access. Such a requirement will reduce the number of abandoned games that nobody buys and maybe people will want to play them.

That's my vision of how early access works.
Write your opinion on how we can improve the early access experience.
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Originally posted by MonkehMaster:
Originally posted by HornyHime:
Originally posted by Ettanin:
Valve will not abuse its monopolistic power and risk antitrust lawsuits just to fulfill your tin cup rattling demands.

In that case, they can just remove that garbage from the store because it's their store.

this, is exactly what valve already does, for example... i own a early access game called clockwork empires that the devs went bankrupt and abandoned their game, leaving it up for sale, despite a bank owning the property.

Notice: Clockwork Empires is no longer available on the Steam store. (think this is used for games valve either removes from steam, or ends sales of said products if its in the state i mentioned.

said game, was built on an in-house engine, one that was to ambitious and difficult to use according to them, they did fine for a few years and suddenly things slowed down and then randomly the community noticed no word or updates from the devs... needless to say, we found the simply went bankrupt and didnt bother telling anyone what happened, they simply just left along with leaving the game for sale.

though fair to say, majority of the community loved the game, most stuck around and played, some of the community even went in to fix w/e they could and balance the game a bit more, barring any hard coded due to the engine, that we didnt have and couldnt get our hands on, anywho the community did the best they could with whats there, despite everything the game is still fun to play, you just have to sidestep a few instances that cause crashes.

if it was the developer it would say: at the request of the developer, this game is no longer for sale. (something along those lines, dont feel like looking for one atm).

in any case, valve cant price or give away property that isnt theirs, they would have to buy the product outright to do as you suggested, but valve isnt going to buy broken unfinished games, or finish them (all types of reasons they cant or wont) to sell them.

as for the "blue box" everyone blasts people with, those are just glorified excuse boxes to allow misuse of the Early Access system, has been since Early Access became a thing, it just takes valve eons before addressing specific issues on the platform.

i will say, i hate Early Access myself, but i do find (despite being burned) that some of the games are quite good and lots now a days seem to be getting finished at the very least, while others take ages to updates things, but there are still a portion who ruin the Early Access system for everyone else.
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Showing 1-15 of 39 comments
Princess Luna Apr 7 @ 4:13am 
Not too long ago Steam started warning that the game hasn't been updated for a long time and it might be abandoned
Where? I dont see that on https://store.steampowered.com/app/1639700/Havoc_Fox/ or https://store.steampowered.com/app/2388990/ShadowKitty_Thief_by_Night/
#1
Ettanin Apr 7 @ 4:14am 
Blue box. Read it before hitting "add to cart".

Originally posted by HornyHime:
If the game has not been updated for more than three years - Steam has the right to reduce the price of the game itself or to assign discounts to it (abandoned games usually do not participate in sales).
If a game has not been updated for more than five years and is still in early access, Steam has the option to make it free. That's quite a long time, when the developer could make at least a small bug fix or take it out of early access. Such a requirement will reduce the number of abandoned games that nobody buys and maybe people will want to play them.
And the tin cup rattles again.
Last edited by Ettanin; Apr 7 @ 4:15am
#2
HornyHime Apr 7 @ 4:21am 
Originally posted by Princess Luna:
Not too long ago Steam started warning that the game hasn't been updated for a long time and it might be abandoned
Where? I dont see that on https://store.steampowered.com/app/1639700/Havoc_Fox/ or https://store.steampowered.com/app/2388990/ShadowKitty_Thief_by_Night/
Like this
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1213740/She_Will_Punish_Them/
#3
HikariLight Apr 7 @ 4:22am 
OP the BIG BLUE BOX on the Early Access games store page WARNS you that the game you are buying is INCOMPLETE and might or might not be updated.
You are buying the game for its CURRENT state.
Last edited by HikariLight; Apr 7 @ 4:23am
#4
BJWyler Apr 7 @ 4:22am 
Originally posted by HornyHime:
That's my vision of how early access works.
Write your opinion on how we can improve the early access experience.
Well your vision seems to like to rattle the tin cup because you have no idea how game development actually works. How about this:

If you want a complete and finished game, buy it when it is finished and complete.

Let me see. An incomplete game is advertised. An incomplete game is sold when the buy button is clicked. An incomplete game is delivered. Sounds exactly like the opposite of a scam to me.

As always, if you want a complete and finished game. Buy it when it is complete and finished. It's almost like we were already just going over thus stuff already. Oh, that's right, we were - in another thread in Steam Discussions with a reply not an hour or so ago. Doesn't look like EA is the thing that needs fixing.

Anyway, time for the obligatory cut and paste since this song and dance never changes.

You are buying the game "As is." It's not different than if I walk into my local sporting goods store or appliance store and buy a floor model treadmill as is, or a floor model refrigerator as is.

I am buying that product as it sits with no further implied warranties or functionality. It may work perfectly fine for the next 10 years, or it may fall apart a week after I get home. That is the risk I take for buying something "As is." An Early Access game is no different. You are buying a product as it sits and you are entitled to nothing more than that, nor is anything more than that promised. The fact that there are people in this world who are unable to grasp that simple concept does not mean that there is anything borked with or anything that needs to be fixed with Early Access. The only thing that needs fixing are the attitudes when it comes to the entitlement some wrongly believe they are due.

Back in the day, I was fortunate enough to have the right connections in order to be invited to closed Alpha and Beta testing of games. So I was able to play games that my friends could not, in an early state of development. Many of those projects, developed by indie or smaller studios, never made it past the closed testing phase for one reason or another. However, I was able to play quite a few that made it to the finish line and beyond. My friends never saw the projects that were never finished, they only got to see the ones that made it to store shelves.

What things like crowdfunding and Early Access enable now is the ability of my friends to buy their way into those testing phases they were never privy to before. They now get to see what I got to see as an Alpha and Beta tester. They get to see the trials and tribulations of game development as it happens, and yes - they even get to see the failures. That's the only difference here. Game development hasn't changed all that much from those glory days. It's just that more people are now able to participate in a process that was traditionally only reserved for in house personnel, or a select few outsiders, like myself.

There is nothing wrong with Early Access as it is, and there certainly is nothing that needs to be fixed with the concept in and of itself. It is working as intended, and I for one, am glad to now have the opportunity to experience and play games that (even with my old connections) I would never have the opportunity to play and experience today. And I certainly don't think that the process needs to be changed or ruined because a select few people don't have the wherewithal to manage their own expectations about the game development process. This isn't rocket science. These are concepts so simple that even a caveman like myself can understand them.
Last edited by BJWyler; Apr 7 @ 4:23am
#5
HikariLight Apr 7 @ 4:23am 
Originally posted by Princess Luna:
Not too long ago Steam started warning that the game hasn't been updated for a long time and it might be abandoned
Where? I dont see that on https://store.steampowered.com/app/1639700/Havoc_Fox/ or https://store.steampowered.com/app/2388990/ShadowKitty_Thief_by_Night/
Those are not Early Access games.
They are announced, and not released.
They are not Early Access.
#6
HornyHime Apr 7 @ 5:03am 
Originally posted by BJWyler:
Originally posted by HornyHime:
That's my vision of how early access works.
Write your opinion on how we can improve the early access experience.
Well your vision seems to like to rattle the tin cup because you have no idea how game development actually works. How about this:

If you want a complete and finished game, buy it when it is finished and complete.

Let me see. An incomplete game is advertised. An incomplete game is sold when the buy button is clicked. An incomplete game is delivered. Sounds exactly like the opposite of a scam to me.
...
There is nothing wrong with Early Access as it is, and there certainly is nothing that needs to be fixed with the concept in and of itself. It is working as intended, and I for one, am glad to now have the opportunity to experience and play games that (even with my old connections) I would never have the opportunity to play and experience today. And I certainly don't think that the process needs to be changed or ruined because a select few people don't have the wherewithal to manage their own expectations about the game development process. This isn't rocket science. These are concepts so simple that even a caveman like myself can understand them.

This is primarily about abandoned games that do not get further development. Perhaps it's a lack of finances, loss of interest in the developer or many other reasons, but there are games that are left on their own. A buyer can buy it “as is” of course, but in most cases it's useless unless it's something unique.

More responsible developers explicitly say, development is discontinued there will be no updates. In some cases, they themselves put a lower price or free access. Then there are developers who write a plan, raise money and walk off into the sunset. These unfinished games will gather dust in the dustbin of history for 5-10-100 years. Why not hand over the management of these games to Steam? Participate in sales, pricing policies in different regions. This is more loyal than just removing abandoned games after a while. You can just hide such games from the user side as I do.

Anyway this is my opinion, you can have your own.
#7
datCookie Apr 7 @ 5:09am 
Steam does not set the price for any game except their own on the steam store. If a game is abandoned and still being sold, most devs will inform Steam and have it removed from sale. But games can spend years in Early Access and still be developing.

We cannot set arbitrary time limits.
#8
Nx Machina Apr 7 @ 5:15am 
What is an Early Access game?

It does not get any CLEARER than:

"Get instant access and start playing; get involved with this game as it DEVELOPS".

"This Early Access game is NOT COMPLETE and MAY OR MAY NOT CHANGE FURTHER. If YOU are not excited to play this game in its CURRENT STATE, then YOU should WAIT to see IF the game progresses further in DEVELOPMENT".


In order to get an Early Access game there are 7 steps:

1) Went to the store page.

2) Added the game to your cart.

3) Viewed your cart.

4) Continued to payment.

5) Entered the security code if you are using a card.

6) Ticked the Steam Subscriber Agreement box (includes the refund policy).

7) Clicked confirm.

All those 7 steps are voluntary not mandatory.


So the question remains is waiting a problem?
#9
HornyHime Apr 7 @ 5:18am 
Originally posted by datCookie:
Steam does not set the price for any game except their own on the steam store. If a game is abandoned and still being sold, most devs will inform Steam and have it removed from sale. But games can spend years in Early Access and still be developing.

We cannot set arbitrary time limits.

I thought in general adding a “hide abandoned games” button would help.
I sometimes search games with various filters and the large amount of “dead games” is shocking.
#10
datCookie Apr 7 @ 5:21am 
Originally posted by HornyHime:

I thought in general adding a “hide abandoned games” button would help.
I sometimes search games with various filters and the large amount of “dead games” is shocking.

I think it's just easier to read the store page and not buy any Early Access game that has received the notice of not being updated in a long while. Safest way to do it than an unverifiable "abandoned" filter that Steam would never do
#11
HornyHime Apr 7 @ 5:28am 
Originally posted by datCookie:
Originally posted by HornyHime:

I thought in general adding a “hide abandoned games” button would help.
I sometimes search games with various filters and the large amount of “dead games” is shocking.

I think it's just easier to read the store page and not buy any Early Access game that has received the notice of not being updated in a long while. Safest way to do it than an unverifiable "abandoned" filter that Steam would never do

That's what I'm doing at the moment.

Additionally I hide these games, right now there are a little over 10000 of them, but unfortunately they will be 3/4 of all the games in the store in my opinion and that's sad.

Maybe when there will be a lot of these games, Steam will implement some kind of filtering system, but not in the near future.
#12
datCookie Apr 7 @ 5:31am 
Originally posted by HornyHime:
Originally posted by datCookie:

I think it's just easier to read the store page and not buy any Early Access game that has received the notice of not being updated in a long while. Safest way to do it than an unverifiable "abandoned" filter that Steam would never do

That's what I'm doing at the moment.

Additionally I hide these games, right now there are a little over 10000 of them, but unfortunately they will be 3/4 of all the games in the store in my opinion and that's sad.

Maybe when there will be a lot of these games, Steam will implement some kind of filtering system, but not in the near future.

There are over 100k games on Steam total. Early Access makes up a smaller portion of them than you realise. I wouldn't hide them, because you might miss out on some real gems that are doing great.
#13
Brian9824 Apr 7 @ 6:13am 
Originally posted by HornyHime:
If the game has not been updated for more than three years - Steam has the right to reduce the price of the game itself or to assign discounts to it (abandoned games usually do not participate in sales).
If a game has not been updated for more than five years and is still in early access, Steam has the option to make it free.

What you are describing would be blatantly illegal and not allowed. Steam does not own those games and they cannot change the price of someone else's property.
#14
HornyHime Apr 7 @ 6:24am 
Originally posted by Brian9824:
Originally posted by HornyHime:
If the game has not been updated for more than three years - Steam has the right to reduce the price of the game itself or to assign discounts to it (abandoned games usually do not participate in sales).
If a game has not been updated for more than five years and is still in early access, Steam has the option to make it free.

What you are describing would be blatantly illegal and not allowed. Steam does not own those games and they cannot change the price of someone else's property.

By releasing the game in early access, the developer and the Steam platform enter into some agreement. There may also be a clause with some conditions about the duties and responsibilities of the parties. But in this case it will be only for new agreements most likely.
#15
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Date Posted: Apr 7 @ 4:11am
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