Add new "anti cheat root level access" filter to the steam shop

[Skalleperra]

I'd like a new checkbox in the shop preferences to hide or at least flag games that uses invasive root/kernel level access anti cheat programs, so I can be certain that I can make conscious choices when buying and installing games on my computer.

I understand why these programs exists, but to me my integrity and personal safety is more important than if someone cheats in a game. Today I need to read reviews or search for more information online about the games before making a decision. It shouldn't be this hard.

[RiO]

You can't make informed choices about these, period.
Because publishers will just sneak them in after the fact, if they want to.

The only informed choice you could make is to never purchase anything that touches competitive multiplayer.
But even then, some cooperative multiplayer games use anti-cheats.
And even some singleplayer games use them, so that you can't do things like modify memory to unlock items, boost XP earning, etc. for which you'd nominally be funneled into a micro-transaction in-game shop.


Basically, if you want a strong 99% guarantee - avoid anything multiplayer; avoid anything that features MTX point shops.

[76561197963519852]

Give the developers every tool in the toolbox when it comes to keeping their games fun and the way they were meant to be played.

+1

[Skalleperra]

Oprindeligt skrevet af RiO:

You can't make informed choices about these, period.
Because publishers will just sneak them in after the fact, if they want to.

The only informed choice you could make is to never purchase anything that touches competitive multiplayer.
But even then, some cooperative multiplayer games use anti-cheats.
And even some singleplayer games use them, so that you can't do things like modify memory to unlock items, boost XP earning, etc. for which you'd nominally be funneled into a micro-transaction in-game shop.


Basically, if you want a strong 99% guarantee - avoid anything multiplayer; avoid anything that features MTX point shops.

I'm not against anti cheat programs in general. As I wrote I understand the purpose. It's the invasive root level kind of anti cheat I really dislike. Given the times we live in today with cyber criminality and state-sponsored hacking, I think something has to be done. I also realize it's a bit naive of me to think a filter like this would help, but at least it would be something and serious gaming companies could benefit from having a "clean" stamp of approval kind of thing.

The more serious solution would be some kind of law/regulation, but I doubt politicians will bother with this unfortunately.

[Skalleperra]

Oprindeligt skrevet af 76561197963519852:

Give the developers every tool in the toolbox when it comes to keeping their games fun and the way they were meant to be played.

+1

I agree, as long as it doesn't mean that they get root level access to my computer.

[Ancient Oldie]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Skalleperra:

Oprindeligt skrevet af 76561197963519852:

Give the developers every tool in the toolbox when it comes to keeping their games fun and the way they were meant to be played.

+1

I agree, as long as it doesn't mean that they get root level access to my computer.

Software running at root level is something completely different than developpers getting root level access to your computer.

But I like the idea of a gamefilter for it.

[Night]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ancient Oldie:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Skalleperra:

I agree, as long as it doesn't mean that they get root level access to my computer.

Software running at root level is something completely different than developpers getting root level access to your computer.

But I like the idea of a gamefilter for it.

There are curators that label games with root-level anti-cheat softwares or Denuvo Anti-Tamper.

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/rootkitanticheats/

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/DenuvoGames/

By following these groups you can see on the store page if they're not recommending games for use of Denuvo or intrusive anti-cheats.

[Skalleperra]

Oprindeligt skrevet af NT:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ancient Oldie:

Software running at root level is something completely different than developpers getting root level access to your computer.

But I like the idea of a gamefilter for it.

There are curators that label games with root-level anti-cheat softwares or Denuvo Anti-Tamper.

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/rootkitanticheats/

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/DenuvoGames/

By following these groups you can see on the store page if they're not recommending games for use of Denuvo or intrusive anti-cheats.

Thank you!

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

You can also scroll down this page... https://steamdb.info/tech/

To the Anti-cheat section.

[Skalleperra]

Oprindeligt skrevet af cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

You can also scroll down this page... https://steamdb.info/tech/

To the Anti-cheat section.

:nkCool:

Nice, thanks!

[Ben Lubar]

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/4547038620960934857

If a game shows up on one of the lists mentioned in this thread and the store page for the game doesn't show the indicator in the right column, send the developer this article. It might help them out.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ben Lubar:

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/4547038620960934857

If a game shows up on one of the lists mentioned in this thread and the store page for the game doesn't show the indicator in the right column, send the developer this article. It might help them out.

Now if only there were a filter for this...

Oprindeligt skrevet af Skalleperra:

Add new "anti cheat root level access" filter to the steam shop

I'd like a new checkbox in the shop preferences to hide or at least flag games that uses invasive root/kernel level access anti cheat programs, so I can be certain that I can make conscious choices when buying and installing games on my computer.

I understand why these programs exists, but to me my integrity and personal safety is more important than if someone cheats in a game. Today I need to read reviews or search for more information online about the games before making a decision. It shouldn't be this hard.

... oh wait...

[Ben Lubar]

Oprindeligt skrevet af cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Now if only there were a filter for this...

... oh wait...

:nkCool:

The search page on the Steam store is set up for you to tell it what you do want rather than what you don't want, so it'd be a bit weird to add a search filter for "uses generative AI" or "installs a kernel-level anticheat". They could put something like what exists for early access or VR games, but those labels are still pretty new and not every game that should be labeled is yet.

Also, unlike early access and VR, there's not really any reason someone would be looking for games that used generative AI or that have kernel-level anticheat specifically. So adding an opt-out for those might incentivize game developers to avoid setting up that part of their game's store page even though not doing so is against the rules. We already see that with Call of Duty using generative AI (as evidenced by many screenshots including a loading screen with a 6-fingered Grinch) but having no mention of it on the store page.

I don't work for Valve so I don't know what their plans are, but if I was in charge, that's why I would be hesitant to add a setting for it at this point in time. They might have plans to add it later, they might not. This thread will probably have a nonzero effect on pushing that needle. So by all means, share opinions. Talk about changes you want. I'm not arguing against that. This is just me sharing my thought process.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ben Lubar:

The search page on the Steam store is set up for you to tell it what you do want rather than what you don't want, so it'd be a bit weird to add a search filter for "uses generative AI" or "installs a kernel-level anticheat". They could put something like what exists for early access or VR games, but those labels are still pretty new and not every game that should be labeled is yet.

Also, unlike early access and VR, there's not really any reason someone would be looking for games that used generative AI or that have kernel-level anticheat specifically. So adding an opt-out for those might incentivize game developers to avoid setting up that part of their game's store page even though not doing so is against the rules. We already see that with Call of Duty using generative AI (as evidenced by many screenshots including a loading screen with a 6-fingered Grinch) but having no mention of it on the store page.

I don't work for Valve so I don't know what their plans are, but if I was in charge, that's why I would be hesitant to add a setting for it at this point in time. They might have plans to add it later, they might not. This thread will probably have a nonzero effect on pushing that needle. So by all means, share opinions. Talk about changes you want. I'm not arguing against that. This is just me sharing my thought process.

Valve added the exclude filter to Tags and even VR support years ago. They could do the same here.

[Skalleperra]

Oprindeligt skrevet af cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ben Lubar:

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/4547038620960934857

If a game shows up on one of the lists mentioned in this thread and the store page for the game doesn't show the indicator in the right column, send the developer this article. It might help them out.

Now if only there were a filter for this...

Oprindeligt skrevet af Skalleperra:

Add new "anti cheat root level access" filter to the steam shop

I'd like a new checkbox in the shop preferences to hide or at least flag games that uses invasive root/kernel level access anti cheat programs, so I can be certain that I can make conscious choices when buying and installing games on my computer.

I understand why these programs exists, but to me my integrity and personal safety is more important than if someone cheats in a game. Today I need to read reviews or search for more information online about the games before making a decision. It shouldn't be this hard.

... oh wait...

:nkCool:

:D

[Skalleperra]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ben Lubar:

Oprindeligt skrevet af cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Now if only there were a filter for this...

... oh wait...

:nkCool:

The search page on the Steam store is set up for you to tell it what you do want rather than what you don't want, so it'd be a bit weird to add a search filter for "uses generative AI" or "installs a kernel-level anticheat". They could put something like what exists for early access or VR games, but those labels are still pretty new and not every game that should be labeled is yet.
(...)

Well, they could just switch the label of the checkbox to say "Show games with no invasive anticheat software", or if not a checkbox, add a label/tag to search for.

When I search for games, there are actually already checkboxes to "hide ignored articles", "hide articlies in my library" and "hide articles in my wish list". So they do have options to exclude things you don't want. It's just an implementation thing in my view (I work as a product owner for a dev team myself). The more tricky thing is how to label games and make sure it is correctly updated if the dev/distributor decides to add or remove the anticheat later, otherwise the filter will be useless pretty quickly.