Append discussion rules to disallow ban evasion

[Lime]

If someone is banned from posting, they should not be allowed to post until that ban expires. It's a simple fix to just make circumventing a ban also a bannable offence.

there's little that's constructive about banning someone who has 30 other accounts primed and ready to continue what got them banned in the first place. This sort of rule has been commonplace in forums for decades, why not here?

[King of Games]

i have little faith in support or moderation to do anything but be stupid

[IFIYGD]

The main difficulty I see is in how Valve makes it work across their own discussion forums (Steam Forums) *and* every single game hub. Game devs and publishers, or their community managers, or their appointed (paid or unpaid) forums moderators do not have access to the same level of account data that Steam Support or Valve Employees may have AFAIK. So they can't see linked accounts sharing a phone number or email address, for example. So how do they know for sure that 2 or more accounts are owned by the same person using them for ban evasion purposes? Even someone saying "Hey you banned _X_account_, and I am now here using _Y_account_ to get around that!" doesn't give proof, and would be open to abuse- people trying to get someone else's account(s) banned by claiming to be their alt(s). Steam Discussion Rules and Guidelines are *supposed to be* enforced on game forums, whether the devs/publishers have their own set of forums-specific rules of their own.(Yeah, I know they aren't enforced at all on a ton of game forums, which is why I said *supposed to be* not *are*).
So how do devs/publishers and their moderation peeps prove someone is using an alt or alts to evade a ban without opening up a huge hole that would allow easy malicious abuse, and open themselves up to possible lawsuits (depending on jurisdiction)?

[Tito Shivan]

Ban evasion doesn't even need to be a policy or a rule. It's just the outcome of moderation correctly doing their job.

[Troll Hunter b]

Originally posted by IFIYGD:

The main difficulty I see is in how Valve makes it work across their own discussion forums (Steam Forums) *and* every single game hub. Game devs and publishers, or their community managers, or their appointed (paid or unpaid) forums moderators do not have access to the same level of account data that Steam Support or Valve Employees may have AFAIK. So they can't see linked accounts sharing a phone number or email address, for example. So how do they know for sure that 2 or more accounts are owned by the same person using them for ban evasion purposes? Even someone saying "Hey you banned _X_account_, and I am now here using _Y_account_ to get around that!" doesn't give proof, and would be open to abuse- people trying to get someone else's account(s) banned by claiming to be their alt(s). Steam Discussion Rules and Guidelines are *supposed to be* enforced on game forums, whether the devs/publishers have their own set of forums-specific rules of their own.(Yeah, I know they aren't enforced at all on a ton of game forums, which is why I said *supposed to be* not *are*).
So how do devs/publishers and their moderation peeps prove someone is using an alt or alts to evade a ban without opening up a huge hole that would allow easy malicious abuse, and open themselves up to possible lawsuits (depending on jurisdiction)?

Very true as the "abuse" had already happened. I see other users made a mission to get the person's account ban (full account) out of spite.

Steam has 2 parts Store/games portion and Community discussion forum. A full account ban would ban both aspects. This type of abuse has already happened where a user would in bad faith to report the user account as "compromised/spam" to get the person to be kicked out permanently.

What we need to do is moderation to fix legitimate issues such as those users abusing the reporting system. I was on Reddit in the other day, the person got banned for attempting to false report another user. Reddit moderation called it harassment of users. In the end reddit permanently suspended the user full account. This type of moderation is what we need here at steam.

[Lime]

Originally posted by IFIYGD:

The main difficulty I see is in how Valve makes it work across their own discussion forums (Steam Forums) *and* every single game hub. Game devs and publishers, or their community managers, or their appointed (paid or unpaid) forums moderators do not have access to the same level of account data that Steam Support or Valve Employees may have AFAIK. So they can't see linked accounts sharing a phone number or email address, for example. So how do they know for sure that 2 or more accounts are owned by the same person using them for ban evasion purposes? Even someone saying "Hey you banned _X_account_, and I am now here using _Y_account_ to get around that!" doesn't give proof, and would be open to abuse- people trying to get someone else's account(s) banned by claiming to be their alt(s). Steam Discussion Rules and Guidelines are *supposed to be* enforced on game forums, whether the devs/publishers have their own set of forums-specific rules of their own.(Yeah, I know they aren't enforced at all on a ton of game forums, which is why I said *supposed to be* not *are*).
So how do devs/publishers and their moderation peeps prove someone is using an alt or alts to evade a ban without opening up a huge hole that would allow easy malicious abuse, and open themselves up to possible lawsuits (depending on jurisdiction)?

I've moderated forums for close to 30 years, even at the lowest permission, I was at least able to see IP addresses. no matter what the service was. If that's not enough to make an educated judgement I don't know what is.

[Lime]

"oOoOo but what about Vpns?" what about staff with a single braincell?

[HikariLight]

Originally posted by Lime ᓚᘏ󠀡ᗢ:

"oOoOo but what about Vpns?" what about staff with a single braincell?

VPN use is only banned in the store.

[Mad Scientist]

We already have a big thread about it, the discussion is still active;

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/595137983640845567/

Originally posted by coolboyz2626:

Very true as the "abuse" had already happened. I see other users made a mission to get the person's account ban (full account) out of spite.

Some make many alts out of wanting to continue trolling the forums, which is why they want such activity gone.

Originally posted by coolboyz2626:

Steam has 2 parts Store/games portion and Community discussion forum. A full account ban would ban both aspects. This type of abuse has already happened where a user would in bad faith to report the user account as "compromised/spam" to get the person to be kicked out permanently.

This isn't truthful though. Community bans prevents the use of Community features, it does NOT prevent buying and playing games. They only lock accounts if the accounts are obviously not within the original account creators control.

They may however, delete accounts entirely if someone insists on being a nuisance for a prolonged amount of time regardless of products on the accounts.

Originally posted by coolboyz2626:

What we need to do is moderation to fix legitimate issues such as those users abusing the reporting system.

They already ban troublemakers that abuse the report system. As expected, it's the notorious forum trolls and people abusing alt accounts pretending to be innocent etc that tend to be abusing the feature.

Originally posted by coolboyz2626:

I was on Reddit in the other day, the person got banned for attempting to false report another user. Reddit moderation called it harassment of users. In the end reddit permanently suspended the user full account. This type of moderation is what we need here at steam.

Be careful what you wish for.
Though someone did get a nearly permanent ban for abusing the feature, and outright writing on the forums they'd report anyone that so much as replied to them which was definitely abuse let alone declared intentions.

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by coolboyz2626:

Steam has 2 parts Store/games portion and Community discussion forum. A full account ban would ban both aspects.

We already explained that to your friend Rangers. Community/forum bans do NOT apply to the store.