Threads getting locked for "non-productive argument" should lead to moderation penalties

[Teefa]

How many times do we have to see "We're locking this thread as it has devolved into non-productive argument" in this forum?

I think the Steam Community forums would be improved if a thread getting locked also involved moderation penalties for those involved in the arguments.

Instead we see the same pattern over and over again, eg the same small group of forum regulars harassing and dogpiling every OP until it gets locked.

It is toxic and it ruins so many otherwise productive threads. Allowing these regular altercations without consequences stifles the community. I personally know over a dozen users that have stopped using this forum due to harassment and otherwise feeling unsafe by the culture moderation has permitted here.

Moderation needs to take a more active role in punishing the bad-faith actors that are technically following the rules.

[white but not quite]

Yall, critique != toxicity

[Pierce Dalton]

cinedine původně napsal:

ÁROCK!!! původně napsal:

Negativity is toxic, and when you swim in it daily it will effect you in adverse ways

This so much.
The forums here have an ill effect on people regularly engaging with it. And that's entirely on Steam to foster such an environment.
I have seen several users' behaviour deteriorating over the time. When I posted way more frequently, for large parts I wasn't any better that what I am complaining about now and I still catch myself falling back every now and then.
The internet was a mistake.

I guess the sad truth is Steam doesn't give a damn about the forums, because only a tiny minority of users post on them. I was talking about this in some other thread, it's simply ridiculous how there isn't an individual notification system yet. You gotta choose all or nothing. This says a lot about how much they care about these forums.

[Pierce Dalton]

sorry, NOT beautiful😤 původně napsal:

Yall, critique != toxicity

You know, when people say "I rate your idea 5 craps" (I don't have the crap emoticon), I guess that's not criticizing but being purely toxic.

[Lily McFluffy Butt]

sorry, NOT beautiful😤 původně napsal:

Yall, critique != toxicity

Sadly so many people don't realize that here. And then they lash out sjd ate surprised they get banned.

[Pierce Dalton]

Lily McFluffy Butt původně napsal:

sorry, NOT beautiful😤 původně napsal:

Yall, critique != toxicity

Sadly so many people don't realize that here. And then they lash out sjd ate surprised they get banned.

What people don't realize is them not liking an idea doesn't mean it is a bad idea.

[BJWyler]

brian9824 původně napsal:

TDPS původně napsal:

It's unfortunate for Valve too. I personally don't think I can continue to support a company with such ghastly priorities. This community is an unsafe cesspool of toxicity, enabled from top to bottom by Valve. Steam is alienating and actively hostile to so many users at this point. It's unsustainable.

Maybe they will get their act together. Fingers crossed.

Then feel free to leave, for something so unsustainable its its kinda funny how aside from the same handful of people whining and getting banned the vast majority use the forums every day without issue.

Or they simply stay silent to avoid being targets.

brian9824 původně napsal:

If you feel unsafe then you shouldn't be posting on the forums.

Or maybe Steam should look into why people feel unsafe using the forums. This is like telling a woman not to walk to go out of her house at night if she feels it might not be safe. That's victim blaming instead of addressing the actual issue that no one should have to feel unsafe leaving their house at night.

Start_Running původně napsal:

TDPS původně napsal:

This community is an unsafe cesspool of toxicity, enabled from top to bottom by Valve. Steam is alienating and actively hostile to so many users at this point. It's unsustainable.

Isn't it funny that the ones that keep saying this are just the small minority of users who happen, to, 'for totally myusterious reasons', get themselves banned, sometimes repeatedly.

You generally don't see this sentiment from the overwhelming majority of users who happily manage to use the forums daily without getting themselves banned.

Kinda makes you think doesn't.

They are not the only ones who say or think it. This also operates under the assumption that human moderators are infallible. They most certainly are not, otherwise there would be no need to an appeal system. A system that is also dependent upon fallible humans.

But this isn't just endemic to Steam. You see this kind of thing in pretty much every gaming forum, though some are worse than others. And those that tend to be worse are such because the company has either fostered that type of environment (i.e. Blizzard and Riot), or failed to keep it in check early on.

[white but not quite]

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

sorry, NOT beautiful😤 původně napsal:

Yall, critique != toxicity

You know, when people say "I rate your idea 5 craps" (I don't have the crap emoticon), I guess that's not criticizing but being purely toxic.

Are you implying that's the kind of behaviour that permeates this forum? Just the regulars spamming "5 craps" and "Valve will never implement this, bad idea!" to everything?

[Yasahi]

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

Lily McFluffy Butt původně napsal:

Sadly so many people don't realize that here. And then they lash out sjd ate surprised they get banned.

What people don't realize is them not liking an idea doesn't mean it is a bad idea.

Both are opinions. You could flip that around and it would be true too.

There's too much arguing against the person, not the idea. Critique is discarded because the person who brought it up belongs to the wrong clique or the OP is just unable to accept that their idea is bad.

[Nx Machina]

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

You know, when people say "I rate your idea 5 craps" (I don't have the crap emoticon), I guess that's not criticizing but being purely toxic.

And that is true in reverse when the OP and friends try to nullify replies by claiming there is no real argument to have against a suggestion, idea.

I always post "it is a discussion forum for suggestions and ideas and not an affirmation forum for them".


Another poster agrees - https://ibb.co/KzprNGk

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1675200/discussions/0/3421062958696746426/?ctp=2#c3466100515587108231

FOX původně napsal:

Either way, these are discussion forums, not affirmation forums, I'm not required to agree with your posts.

And another poster on this actual thread stated we should only reply once and leave while hypocritically they and their friends multi post on the same thread and other threads.

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/5595176692485257310/?ctp=2#c3476233614731356359

Surely that is toxicity and trolling based upon what you are pushing.

[Pierce Dalton]

Yasahi původně napsal:

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

What people don't realize is them not liking an idea doesn't mean it is a bad idea.

Both are opinions. You could flip that around and it would be true too.

There's too much arguing against the person, not the idea. Critique is discarded because the person who brought it up belongs to the wrong clique or the OP is just unable to accept that their idea is bad.

Of course you can flip that around. So where is the truth?

[Pierce Dalton]

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

You know, when people say "I rate your idea 5 craps" (I don't have the crap emoticon), I guess that's not criticizing but being purely toxic.

And that is true in reverse when the OP and friends try to nullify replies by claiming there is no real argument to have against a suggestion, idea.

I always post "it is a discussion forum for suggestions and ideas and not an affirmation forum for them".


Another poster agrees - https://ibb.co/KzprNGk

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1675200/discussions/0/3421062958696746426/?ctp=2#c3466100515587108231

FOX původně napsal:

Either way, these are discussion forums, not affirmation forums, I'm not required to agree with your posts.

And another poster on this thread stated we should only reply once and leave while hypocritically they and their friends multi post on the same thread.

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/5595176692485257310/?ctp=2#c3476233614731356359

Surely that is toxicity and trolling based upon what you are pushing.

In fact, there is no real argument when people argue that if one idea was good, it would have been adopted by Valve already. A common "argument" around here.

Wait, you're calling Quint toxic?

Lol he's probably the chillest guy around here, what a freaking joke.

[Brian9824]

BJWyler původně napsal:

Or they simply stay silent to avoid being targets.

Except they aren't. The vast majority of people POSTING aka not being silent are not banned. Yet specific users get banned repeatedly. It doesn't matter if your a target, i've been a target from the same group of 5-6 people for like 2 years now and i've yet to be banned while they've been banned repeatedly.

It doesn't matter if your targeted or not, if you don't break the rules nothing happens. They report every post of mine they can to no effect.

BJWyler původně napsal:

Or maybe Steam should look into why people feel unsafe using the forums. This is like telling a woman not to walk to go out of her house at night if she feels it might not be safe. That's victim blaming instead of addressing the actual issue that no one should have to feel unsafe leaving their house at night.

They are free to, ive repeatedly asked how in any way someone not liking an idea or arguing with you makes them feel unsafe. They've been unable to provide anything and ignore the requests. So honestly at this point sounds more like a made up claim for attention.

Heck i mean basically every user claiming "Harrassment" is making the claim because they are mad that someone they blocked is able to post on their public posts and they consider that harrassment.... Then they get mad and flame people who point out that they don't have the right to block people from posting on a public space.

BJWyler původně napsal:

They are not the only ones who say or think it. This also operates under the assumption that human moderators are infallible. They most certainly are not, otherwise there would be no need to an appeal system. A system that is also dependent upon fallible humans.

But this isn't just endemic to Steam. You see this kind of thing in pretty much every gaming forum, though some are worse than others. And those that tend to be worse are such because the company has either fostered that type of environment (i.e. Blizzard and Riot), or failed to keep it in check early on.

They defintiely aren't infallible, i've had moderation reversed including one where i used a poop emjoi while describing an idea reversed because it breaks no rules.

[Yasahi]

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

Yasahi původně napsal:

Both are opinions. You could flip that around and it would be true too.

There's too much arguing against the person, not the idea. Critique is discarded because the person who brought it up belongs to the wrong clique or the OP is just unable to accept that their idea is bad.

Of course you can flip that around. So where is the truth?

That would depend on the suggestion. What are the pros and cons? Can it be implemented or would it require changes in legislation? That one for example is quite a big one for a company that does business globally. Will it fit in with other projects, are there enough resources to implement it? What's the cost to profit ratio? Is it mandatory or something nice to have?

There's so many variables, most of which require information not available to the public, that discerning the "truth" is pretty much impossible when the idea has clear pros and cons and is not blocked by current legislation. One can always give a weighted score to the different pros and cons in order to decide their own stance on it.

For example, the reselling of games from your own library is a popular suggestion that shows up regularly. There's clear pros if you focus on the consumer and clear cons if you focus on Valve and the publishers. Ignoring either side is silly but acknowledging that Valve and the publishers have a stronger case would be more realistic since they have more say in the matter and the parties have opposing interests.

[Pierce Dalton]

Yasahi původně napsal:

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

Of course you can flip that around. So where is the truth?

That would depend on the suggestion. What are the pros and cons? Can it be implemented or would it require changes in legislation? That one for example is quite a big one for a company that does business globally. Will it fit in with other projects, are there enough resources to implement it? What's the cost to profit ratio? Is it mandatory or something nice to have?

There's so many variables, most of which require information not available to the public, that discerning the "truth" is pretty much impossible when the idea has clear pros and cons and is not blocked by current legislation. One can always give a weighted score to the different pros and cons in order to decide their own stance on it.

For example, the reselling of games from your own library is a popular suggestion that shows up regularly. There's clear pros if you focus on the consumer and clear cons if you focus on Valve and the publishers. Ignoring either side is silly but acknowledging that Valve and the publishers have a stronger case would be more realistic since they have more say in the matter and the parties have opposing interests.

Well, exactly... there are many factors and variables involved to be taken into consideration. An idea is not bad because a few people think it's bad, nor it's good because a few people think it's good, of course. What people tend to forget is our opinions here are irrelevant, all the people posting on the forums don't represent even 1% of Steam users.

[white but not quite]

Well in any case the underhanded remarks about the forum regulars supposedly being "terminally online cause they're emasculated irl" or whatever, are definitely not constructive criticism