Blink 2023년 7월 15일 오전 3시 46분
Suggestion: Don't allow developers to remove paid-for products from customer accounts
Yeah, that recent incident with Motor Rock was a little eye opening, to say the least.
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Start_Running 2023년 7월 15일 오전 3시 48분 
What happened with Motor ROck?
Blink 2023년 7월 15일 오전 3시 53분 
Dev account got hacked and then the game was removed from everyones library, happened a few days ago.

The game got restored, but that is entirely beside the point. Nobody should be able to strip me of something I paid for (and before anybody says what about Refunds, I'm pretty sure that is an entirely different mechanism)

As someone who has already had Saints Row IV Game of the Century Edition on GOG removed and replaced with the crappier newer Re-Elected version (and even the name on the purchase receipt got changed), these kinds of things are increasingly beginning to bother me.
Blink 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 7월 15일 오전 3시 55분
Start_Running 2023년 7월 15일 오전 3시 55분 
Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Dev account got hacked and then the game was removed from everyones library, happened a few days ago.

The game got restored, but that is entirely beside the point. Nobody should be able to strip me of something I paid for.
Yeah that's not goinna haoppen.
You see you have been granted a license uinder contract. If you break rthe contract the legal remedy is to revoke the license at the very minimum.
Brian9824 2023년 7월 15일 오전 3시 57분 
Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Dev account got hacked and then the game was removed from everyones library, happened a few days ago.

The game got restored, but that is entirely beside the point. Nobody should be able to strip me of something I paid for (and before anybody says what about Refunds, I'm pretty sure that is an entirely different mechanism)

On the flip side the dev's should be able to remove licenses that were not paid for. The Motor rock thing was a non issue as it was fixed within days, and if it wasn't removing the license it would have been issuing a ban to you or something else, and it was quickly fixed.

The rare once in 20 year event doesnt negate the need for it. What your describing is like saying remove cops and their ability to arrest people because they arrested the wrong person once....
Blink 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 01분 
Start_Running님이 먼저 게시:
Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Dev account got hacked and then the game was removed from everyones library, happened a few days ago.

The game got restored, but that is entirely beside the point. Nobody should be able to strip me of something I paid for.
Yeah that's not goinna haoppen.
You see you have been granted a license uinder contract. If you break rthe contract the legal remedy is to revoke the license at the very minimum.


30 years of the anti-consumer BS and it still has not been held up in court. In the old days, I walked into a store and bought a game (same "license" by the way), and I walked out with a physical product. You could try to come into my house and remove it from my possession if you want, but I don't think that would end up well for you. It's mine. I own it, and I can do anything I want with it as long as I'm not actually stealing it, or its parts, to try and benefit from your work in some way.

This isn't access to some online MMORPG, this is a completed, working product, that doesn't require an internet connection to actually be played as intended.
Blink 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 05분 
brian9824님이 먼저 게시:
Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Dev account got hacked and then the game was removed from everyones library, happened a few days ago.

The game got restored, but that is entirely beside the point. Nobody should be able to strip me of something I paid for (and before anybody says what about Refunds, I'm pretty sure that is an entirely different mechanism)

On the flip side the dev's should be able to remove licenses that were not paid for. The Motor rock thing was a non issue as it was fixed within days, and if it wasn't removing the license it would have been issuing a ban to you or something else, and it was quickly fixed.

The rare once in 20 year event doesnt negate the need for it. What your describing is like saying remove cops and their ability to arrest people because they arrested the wrong person once....


This is an unprecedented power being given to random corporations to go into your personal property and just take something, using whatever excuse they deem.

Banning access to forums, or an online game server where the actual game is hosted, as a service, is completely different than taking something from you.
Start_Running 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 11분 
Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Start_Running님이 먼저 게시:
Yeah that's not goinna haoppen.
You see you have been granted a license uinder contract. If you break rthe contract the legal remedy is to revoke the license at the very minimum.


30 years of the anti-consumer BS and it still has not been held up in court.
Oh it has. A service provider may uif the terms of teh contract are breeched , terminate the contract. It's why your cable provider, water company, and power company can cut you off if you don't pay your bill.

It's why a your local gym can cancel your membership and boot you out if you're unrly to the other patrons and damage the equipment.

It's why your landlord can evict you for damaging their property.

There's plenty of precedence m8 and its not anti consumer.

Blink님이 먼저 게시:
In the old days, I walked into a store and bought a game (same "license" by the way), and I walked out with a physical product. You could try to come into my house and remove it from my possession if you want, but I don't think that would end up well for you.
Their inability to do so in a practical manner in the odlk days doesn't change that they had the right to. And many did by revoke the license key that you used to play the game. or use the software.

You're basically saying that yhou were allowed to break the speedlimit on a stretch of road before the police set up a speed trap.


This power also works in both directions. I can terminate my contract with a cable provider and get some if not all off my cash back if they fail to provide reasonable service. I can cancel my membership at a gym if the fascilities are in poor upkeep, and unusuable,. I can terminate my lease if the landlord fails to fix the hole in the roof and the leaving sewer.

Start_Running 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 21분
Blink 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 21분 
Start_Running님이 먼저 게시:
Blink님이 먼저 게시:


30 years of the anti-consumer BS and it still has not been held up in court.
Oh it has. A service provider may uif the terms of teh contract are breeched , terminate the contract. It's why your cable provider, water company, and power company can cut you off if you don't pay your bill.

It's why a your local gym can cancel your membership and boot you out if you're unrly to the other patrons and damage the equipment.

It's why your landlord can evict you for damaging their property.

There's plenty of precedence m8 and its not anti consumer.

Blink님이 먼저 게시:
In the old days, I walked into a store and bought a game (same "license" by the way), and I walked out with a physical product. You could try to come into my house and remove it from my possession if you want, but I don't think that would end up well for you.
Their inability to do so in a practical manner in the odlk days doesn't change that they had the right to. And many did by revoke the license key that you used to play the game. or use the software.

You're basically saying that yhou were allowed to break the speedlimit on a stretch of road before the police set up a speed trap.


Your examples are literally all flawed because you keep using examples of SERVICES.

Are you're seriously arguing that just because they didn't have the "practical" ability, random game company actually has the right to show up at my house and remove property I exchanged money for? hahahahhahaahahahahahahahahahahahah. The only thing they can extract from me is money for actual damages caused to them, or property seized in lieu of said owed money (and only after I make every attempt to not pay them anything (after being found liable), and they go to court to get a judgement, and a sheriff to enforce it)

Where do you people come from.

Damn I sure hope the "license" on my coffee maker never gets revoked. Do you have any idea how insane you sound?
Crazy Tiger 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 30분 
Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Your examples are literally all flawed because you keep using examples of SERVICES.
That's how these platforms market themselves in that regard. Which is also why the licenses are as they are. And when Valve got taken to court about it, that also was the conclusion. They provide a service and the licenses are part of that.

Until the way licensing works changes and courts rule differently, this won't change. No amount of complaint threads on a forum is going to achieve anything anyway.
Ranix 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 31분 
this suggestion is an obviously needed change and anyone arguing against it has mental problems or needs to take a civics class
Start_Running 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 34분 
Blink님이 먼저 게시:


Your examples are literally all flawed because you keep using examples of SERVICES.
The aspects of contract law that apply sepcifically state applying to GOODS AND SERVICES.

Also your cable company is providing a SERVICE. As i your GYM,. THe House/car you lease, or mortgage however. That's a different thing.

Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Are you're seriously arguing that just because they didn't have the "practical" ability, random game company actually has the right to show up at my house and remove property I exchanged money for?

Same way your care or furniture can be legally repossessed if you fall behind on your payments.
YOu're not very up to date on the real workd are you m8? Or you know how a bank can seize your home if you fall behind on your mortgage payments

Blink님이 먼저 게시:
The only thing they can extract from me is money for actual damages caused to them, or property seized in lieu of said owed money (and only after I make every attempt to not pay them anything (after being found liable), and they go to court to get a judgement, and a sheriff to enforce it)
You're right on the first two. Wrong on the second. They are not obligated to reoffer the contract. Especially in the case where you're the one in breech. If a landlord evicts you for knocking holes in walls they are under no obligation to allow to let you lease/rent again. If a gym or such boots you out they are under no obligation to accept you back as a customer. In fact they are in their rights to permamnently bar you from not only the locatuion you made a mess at but any other location if they have a franchaise. Same thing goes for supermarkets and any other store.

Contract law is a foundational law opf commerce and trade. It is quite powerful.


Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Where do you people come from.
An education system that provides one with the required literacy to read and understand contract law.

Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Damn I sure hope the "license" on my coffee maker never gets revoked. Do you have any idea how insane you sound?
YOu never read your manual I take it. It does list out what can happen if you breach the contract.
Start_Running 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 49분
Mr. Smiles 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 34분 
Ok, real world example that deals with goods rather than services. John Deere can literally brick your tractor if you make unauthorized repairs or modifications to it.

You paid for the tractor, it should be yours to do with as you see fit, right? Nope, you agreed to John Deere's terms when you bought it, and they'll take away your access to your product if you break those terms.

Welcome to the modern age. You own nothing.
Start_Running 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 35분 
Ranix님이 먼저 게시:
this suggestion is an obviously needed change and anyone arguing against it has mental problems or needs to take a civics class
I'd sugggest you actually takle some time to read up on contract law m8.
Vash(88) 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 36분 
Amazing how many people fall into the "its just the way it is" mind set. Some things need to change and not be defended
Blink 2023년 7월 15일 오전 4시 37분 
Crazy Tiger님이 먼저 게시:
Blink님이 먼저 게시:
Your examples are literally all flawed because you keep using examples of SERVICES.
That's how these platforms market themselves in that regard. Which is also why the licenses are as they are. And when Valve got taken to court about it, that also was the conclusion. They provide a service and the licenses are part of that.

Until the way licensing works changes and courts rule differently, this won't change. No amount of complaint threads on a forum is going to achieve anything anyway.


Valve is a storefront, they are by definition providing a service. This discussion is about the actual developers being able to revoke your access to something you paid a third party (not them), money for, in an exchange of goods.

My transaction was with Valve, no the developer, and even if I did buy from the developer directly, unless I did not fully pay them, they still have no legal right to "repossess" my property. They can cut my access to their online, recurring billed services all day long if they want, but that is where their rights end and mine as a customer begin.
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