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Neon Rhino Jun 22, 2014 @ 10:10pm
Trading uninstalled games in my Library
Steam community lend me your ears!

What I would like to see is the ability to trade a game to someone else. Selling it would be too much work. It would be very simple, uninstall the game right click the game select trade and then you are trading on the game market in exchange for another game, trading cards or gift it away. I have a handful of games (We all do) that I have purchased played it and beat them. An example of a game I would want to trade off would be MW2 I never play that game and the story can only be replayed so many times that it makes it pointless to play. Now it sits in my account uninstalled and collecting dust. I am guessing most of you in the steam community might feel the same way, becouse you want to sell your games?

I have a question for you my Steam community people

If I purchase a game do I (The Customer) technically own said game, or am I just holding onto it? Like the XBOX or PS3 or PS4 (They get mad if you open up their hardware or hack their games) and if I do own the game why can't I sell the game or trade my game? If Steam owns the games technically I should't be paying full price for the game, why you ask? Because when the smokes clears I dont own the game out right, its like paying full price for a car and its missing tires.

Steam knows when my game is installed or not so uninstalling the game and then trading it off doesnt seem like that big of a deal. Oh and hey STEAM I'll even pay you guys a processing fee to trade the games off. You already do that with the trading cards.

I miss the days of DRM-Free stuff, and the days when you bought something you owned it.

Steam community I know you got some thoughts or insight?

~Kartro :TalProToad:

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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
Fox Jun 22, 2014 @ 10:35pm 
Originally posted by Kartro:
Steam community lend me your ears!

What I would like to see is the ability to trade a game to someone else. Selling it would be too much work. It would be very simple, uninstall the game right click the game select trade and then you are trading on the game market in exchange for another game, trading cards or gift it away. I have a handful of games (We all do) that I have purchased played it and beat them. An example of a game I would want to trade off would be MW2 I never play that game and the story can only be replayed so many times that it makes it pointless to play. Now it sits in my account uninstalled and collecting dust. I am guessing most of you in the steam community might feel the same way, becouse you want to sell your games?

I have a question for you my Steam community people

If I purchase a game do I (The Customer) technically own said game, or am I just holding onto it? Like the XBOX or PS3 or PS4 (They get mad if you open up their hardware or hack their games) and if I do own the game why can't I sell the game or trade my game? If Steam owns the games technically I should't be paying full price for the game, why you ask? Because when the smokes clears I dont own the game out right, its like paying full price for a car and its missing tires.

Steam knows when my game is installed or not so uninstalling the game and then trading it off doesnt seem like that big of a deal. Oh and hey STEAM I'll even pay you guys a processing fee to trade the games off. You already do that with the trading cards.

I miss the days of DRM-Free stuff, and the days when you bought something you owned it.

Steam community I know you got some thoughts or insight?

~Kartro :TalProToad:
You don't own the game. You own a license to play it. It's pretty much the case for most of the software you're using anyway.

You may wish to use the search function to see the many other threads on the subject, and contribute to it or see why it may not be viable.
Wow that was a really long post for a thread that's going to get locked shortly.
Anyway,
You are purchasing a license to play the game as much as you want, whenever you want but you do not own the game.
The car comparison doesn't work because you are getting the game complete and fully functional. Also most people who play PC games aren't buying at full price, they wait for sales like the one currently going on.
Steam only knows if the game is the Steam directory, if you move it Steam has no idea what you have or don't.
A processing fee is more reasonable than what most people want when they request this feature however it still wouldn't come close to covering the revenue Valve and the devs will miss from all the lost sales.

What days of DRM free stuff? Did computer games used to not have DRM?
I do agree with you on wishing DRM free was used more but as far as I know DRM has been around almost as long as video games.

I also agree that actually owning the games would be nice which is why I buy DRM free whenever the option is available, but Steam is a subscription service, they sell lifetime subscriptions to games, not the games themselves.

You are definitely not the only person that wants this but the lost revenue would be huge and TBH second hand sales are hurting the console gaming industry bad right now, and I would prefer if PC gaming was as healthy as possible.
Neon Rhino Jun 22, 2014 @ 11:01pm 
Thanks for your reply Random Reference #49. I am slightly confused on why Fox quoted the whole thing.

How can I play a game that I bought on steam without using steam? "Steam only knows if the game is the Steam directory, if you move it Steam has no idea what you have or don't."

DRM-Free for example would be the first Worms game released, The first Unreal Tournament didn't need a CD key either. And almost any console game prior to needing to be online to play or loging into an account for pointless trophies. I dont want to get off topic here.

Fine if I own the license to game, let me trade my license off to someone else. Steam still makes money, as both parties still purchased a game. I know games go on sale but I dont have a limitless wallet and some games I would rather trade or rent. Why can't I trade the license then. I am not trying to take money away from Steam but rather trying to build a better steam.

Skyte100 Jun 22, 2014 @ 11:23pm 
Originally posted by Kartro:
Thanks for your reply Random Reference #49. I am slightly confused on why Fox quoted the whole thing.

How can I play a game that I bought on steam without using steam? "Steam only knows if the game is the Steam directory, if you move it Steam has no idea what you have or don't."

DRM-Free for example would be the first Worms game released, The first Unreal Tournament didn't need a CD key either. And almost any console game prior to needing to be online to play or loging into an account for pointless trophies. I dont want to get off topic here.

Fine if I own the license to game, let me trade my license off to someone else. Steam still makes money, as both parties still purchased a game. I know games go on sale but I dont have a limitless wallet and some games I would rather trade or rent. Why can't I trade the license then. I am not trying to take money away from Steam but rather trying to build a better steam.
1. Because he could. I can to.
2. Steam still knows you "own the game". It just doesnt know if it is installed if the files are moved.
3. They are losing money if you trade games.
Look at it this way. You bought game A and your friend bought B. You each are bored and want the other game. If you trade them you now have B and he has A. Normally you both buy them owning A and B. By letting you trade games Valve is losing 2 potential sales.
Originally posted by Kartro:
Thanks for your reply Random Reference #49. I am slightly confused on why Fox quoted the whole thing.

How can I play a game that I bought on steam without using steam? "Steam only knows if the game is the Steam directory, if you move it Steam has no idea what you have or don't."

DRM-Free for example would be the first Worms game released, The first Unreal Tournament didn't need a CD key either. And almost any console game prior to needing to be online to play or loging into an account for pointless trophies. I dont want to get off topic here.

Fine if I own the license to game, let me trade my license off to someone else. Steam still makes money, as both parties still purchased a game. I know games go on sale but I dont have a limitless wallet and some games I would rather trade or rent. Why can't I trade the license then. I am not trying to take money away from Steam but rather trying to build a better steam.
Some games do not require Steam to be running to play them, a list of those games can be found somewhere on gog.com. Besides that it would be extremely easy to just install a crack on a game you don't want to have to use Steam to run, though I am not suggesting anyone do that as it could cost someone their account.

I was not aware some older PC games had DRM free versions but the older consoles absolutely had DRM in the form of the consoles themselves as well as measures that some devs took to make it harder for people to copy and share their games.

I understand your point about trading licenses but the problem is that such a trade still results in two lost sales and a transaction fee to cover that loss would have to be so high it would make doing the trade in the first place fairly pointless.
As I said, secondhand sales are really hurting the console gaming industry right now and while I can appreciate wanting to buy secondhand the whole point of doing so is to save money, and no secondhand physical game will ever be as cheap as some of the sales you are seeing right now and even renting is more expensive than some of these sales.
For example the new Tomb Raider is 5 bucks right now, there is nowhere and no one that would give you that price on a physical copy of that game unless they stole it or something.

Basically why would anyone buy a game from Steam when they can just trade their old game to someone else for one of their games. There's nothing that would make a secondhand digital game different from a new one other than price. Sure people would still have to buy new releases but even then plenty of people would wait for the buyers to finish the game and then just trade for it. The lost sales would be astronomical.

On a related note Gamestop is looking into doing seconhand digital sales though right now it seems the only way they could make that work is if they had some kind of always online DRM which I'm sure you would agree is far worse than just getting a Steam game from a sale.
Last edited by Random Reference #98; Jun 23, 2014 @ 12:06am
Emyl Jun 22, 2014 @ 11:57pm 
Sadly that would be against Steams and the Games Publisher laws :)
The minute digital reselling becomes a thing, you will definitely see a lot more always online DRM and eventually all out yearly/monthly subscription services (with always online obviously). Do you really want this kind of future?
Neon Rhino Jun 23, 2014 @ 12:43am 
Very insight full.

There is a loss in new sales, but not the orginal sales. there would be dip in sales.

Your right about the console DRM to a point. I dont need my orginal XBOX to play halo, any xbox would work. When I was talking about DRM on the console this was the idea I was getting behind. You are right its restricted to a certian console, but a lot of DRM free games are restricted to Windows or Mac Based OS. I dont want to go down further in this DRM hole.

I guess if I want to continue to use Steam to support my gaming habit its the price I have to pay. It sucks to have a bunch of games that are no longer in use and they just sit there where somone else could benifit from the games, a charity for kids or terminally ill people. I would be willing to give away my games at this point. I would be happy with a way to delete them from my Library because they are taking up space. That would be nice. Can I throw away my old DRM games why becouse I'll never play them again?

.aha I understand but I dont want these games any more, i dont play them and they are cluttering up my library. I don't want to sell them off I just want them gone. I'll pay Steam $5.00 per transaction per trade or gift them to a friend or charity for free. I have a handful of friends who don't have the money to buy games, so they would benifit from it. just like when you rent a movie everyone in the house gets access to it to watch.



Neon Rhino Jun 23, 2014 @ 1:10am 
Originally posted by Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel:
The minute digital reselling becomes a thing, you will definitely see a lot more always online DRM and eventually all out yearly/monthly subscription services (with always online obviously). Do you really want this kind of future?

It was in SIM CITY newest release and it didn't work out. Same with D3 still not quite right.
Not to get too far off topic here but we already are overly connected to the internet IMHO.

Just to be clear here I dont want to sell or re-sell anything, I want to trade or gift old games to others and I am willing to pay a few bucks so steam and software developers don't have empty pockets. You pay money for the trading cards in the transaction Steam and the developers make some more profit off of you after you bought the game license. It's a few cents here and there no real big deal to me. This is the same type of concept I would want to introduce. The trading aspect cost money, where as both parties would shell out some cash to Steam and the devlopers to make the trade. In the end they make some moeny and the traders would get a game. Gifting same aspect you pay some money and gift it to a friend.

The issues or the problems of if you stil have the game installed or whatever is not really our problem its that of Steam's.







Originally posted by Random Reference #49:

What days of DRM free stuff? Did computer games used to not have DRM?
I do agree with you on wishing DRM free was used more but as far as I know DRM has been around almost as long as video games.

Older games did not have "DRM," older games had "copy protect" which usually consisted of absurdly simple to defeat schemes such as looking up certain words in a manual or using a "code wheel" boxed with the game discs.
admcmei Jun 23, 2014 @ 2:55am 
Originally posted by Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel:
The minute digital reselling becomes a thing, you will definitely see a lot more always online DRM and eventually all out yearly/monthly subscription services (with always online obviously). Do you really want this kind of future?

Agreed. People don't understand a simple concept about freedom: absolute freedom does not exist, or better, cannot exist in a functional society. To fly the flag of absolute freedom against anything because it's just right to always be more free is stupid and immature. What we do as humans is we talk, vote, and decide which freedoms are worth it. And THIS freedom would be a really stupid one to want for the reasons you're saying. Because yes, you can force the companies to let you resell, but then they will take other courses which will be even harder to fight, and if you beat those there will be even worse ones. Freedom and rights are not about absolutes (though of course as society progresses we rightly want higher standards), they're about balance.
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Date Posted: Jun 22, 2014 @ 10:10pm
Posts: 11