Adding a clear indicator when a game doesen't support cloud save.

[Tuka]

I am aware that there is a symbol in the steam library, when a game supports cloud saves. But since most games do support clous saves, most people do not pay attention to this hidden symbol and just assume a game supports it.
This makes it quite annoying when a game doesen't have cloud saves simply because the developers were too lazy or didn't bother to implement such a crutial feature (which should be mandatory btw). And it can't be that hard or expensive to implement when many games from the cheapest unity asset flips to the most complex city builder games support it.
The documentation on it is preatty straight forward.
Even more dissapointing when large AAA games like Wolfenstein or Metro Exodus do not support it.

Because of this, it would be neat if the games that do not support cloud saves could have a clearly visible, red symbol that alerts the player about this missing feature.

Something like this:
https://imgur.com/a/MsRCIgu


Edit: This thread is about suggesting to add an indicator. The discussion is not about enforcing cloudsaves itself. So please don't mix up the topics and only comment on the indicator.

To those who want to discuss if cloud saves should be mandatory or not, here are some arguments for it and to think about:
Most other ecosystems like Xbox or Playstation have a mandatory cloud save feature.
The customer pays for it.
People complaining it broke their save file, so why not fix the system?
Implementing cloud save to an game can be done within minutes and doesen't require any editing of the game itself. Why not use it?
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/cloud
Why speak against it when it would only have benefits for the customers and basically no downsides for the developers?

[Tuka]

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

I would appreciate if you could read what I actually said.

And I'd appreciate it if you didn't make sweeping claims that you can't show to be accurate to try to support an argument which is inherently flawed.

No, this isn't a problem because cloud functionality is entirely optional. Adding a red indicator to the library would not only be annoying but highly misleading, because it's not a ciritcal function that Steam or an application depends on. Lack of cloud functionality isn't a flaw.

Your "problem" is only a "problem" if people don't pay attention to what kind of software they actually buy, and what the features (and by extension requirements) are - which are clearly listed on the store page. If you buy a game on Steam you know beforehand whether or not it supports cloud features.

Laziness is not an excuse to add a red indicator - or an indicator of any kind - for features not supported by a game on the library page.

And it's doubly insulting that you expect and blame developers for adding a mostly pointless feature to their games for "being too lazy or [not] bother[ing]". Your whole argument is based on people being too lazy or not bothering to check what they bought - or for that matter how the system they're using actually works.

There are already multiple ways to check whether or not a game supports cloud functionality, cloud functionality is not a critical game feature and your suggestions rewards people for being lazy.

It doesn't add anything useful and would highly annoy me and probably a large number of other people, not to mention game devs and publishers because Steam specifically states in their documentation that Steamworks features are entirely optional.

I am sorry to repeate myself again, but my explanation seems to be needed here. :D

I haven't made wrong statements to support my argument. My intention never was to start an argument and I never tried to. Because the problem I mentioned is present regardless if you or I make an argument about it, regardless of what statements you or I make and regardless of if they are correct or not. But it is hard to defend myself if everything I say is ripped out of context, declaired as an argument and used against me. Real world problems don't obey some online arguments. And it isn't fair that when I even correct a mistake I made (because some think absolutely correct, arbitrary arguments are needed in order to be allowed to have a problem) yet it is again taken out of context and used against me again. It just doesen't feel fair and nice. This is reason for why I am not a fan of this "throwing arguments around" thing, especially when others demand it from me due to their answers.

My suggestion is to add an steam cloud indicator that is visible right away, like it was with the old library design. An instantly visible indicator that shows whenever a game does support it or not, instead of one that is hidden behind an additional menue.
Save files and their integrity is one of the most important feature for a gamer, and it is quite handy to be able check the state of it easily.
Checking the steam store for every single game isn't an comfortable option, especially considering the speed of the steam store. And most people also don't remember if all their dozens or hundreds of games have cloud saves.

It has nothing to do with lazyness when one forgets to check if a single specific game has cloud saves. I am aware that I should pay attention to it, but nobody can pay constantly attention to everything. You don't do it either, otherwise I wouldn't have to tell you this.
And at that point, it is definitely not fair of you to call me lazy for forgetting something on accident. Even less fair considering that not adding cloud save to a game is more that just lazy, considering how fast it can be done by everybody thanks to valves great documentation.
Considering that, it doesen't matter if it is optional, it is just lazy for not adding it since it is the default, the standard and mandatory in most other places. And it isn't fair that you blame me for assuming it was, even though it usually is. Your opinion to cloud saves also doesen't matter. For most people in the gaming space (consoles, mobile, most of pc), it is an important feature and it is avaiable. You may not like it but that doesen't make it pointless at all. Something pointless doesen't add a ton of apprechiated utility for millions of people. Just look at the outcry and praise on other systems when it became avaiable or becomes missing.


I made this suggestion because I want to improve a feature, that will prevent people from experiencing a certain problem or annoying situation. Quality of Life improvments.
is it absolutely mandatory? No. Neither is steam chat, broadcast, remote play together a library with filters or even the user profile page, which are all features that could be considered even more pointless.

What annoys me is that your answer basically was to "Just pay more attention", "That is no prblem, you are making it up".
Not only is it not helpful, but also not kindly.
The situation continues to exist, ragardless if you declare it as a problem.
I suggested a feature that aims to improve a given aspect, and I wanted to find useful feedback. I want to hear your fair opinion on my suggested feature, not a critisism and list of what things I made wrong and that it is bad.

I would love to hear from you things like:

Why would such a feature annoy you? What would be the downsides for you if it would be added in one way or another? Would another symbol next to those already present really break the library UI for you? What would be the downsides and upsides?
What feature would you suggest instead, to instantly see which games support cloud saves and which don't?
Do you think not adding this feature back (since it was present in the old UI) would be benefitial to most users?
Have you considered that some people might care more about their savegames that you do and that it would be cool for them to get some support, which wouldn't compromise your experience?

And just for you, to the cloud saves: Don't you think it would be cool if the users would have more controll about their savegames? Don't you think it would be cool if users could choose for every game if they want to store their saves in a safe cloud? Especially because they paid for it?

I am sorry to have bothered you. But I just hoped for the answers to be more directed towards my suggestion instead of my personal flaws. :/

[Tuka]

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

Actually, you know what. Forget everything I said previously. The feature I was requesting was just recently added to the beta release of steam. The developers decided it wasn't so pointless overall.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

I don't consider Steam Cloud Saves to be a "crucial" feature; it's sometimes useful but not *that* frequently useful. Probably the only time it really benefitted me was when I had two different computers, one more portable than the other, on which I was playing 100% Orange Juice.

For it to be made mandatory (which I understand OP's suggestion is not about) it'd have to be implemented better. For example, it needs manual controls for upload to cloud and download from cloud, as well as seeing what's in the cloud itself.

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

Actually, you know what. Forget everything I said previously. The feature I was requesting was just recently added to the beta release of steam. The developers decided it wasn't so pointless overall.

It's amusing when some people argue that a feature isn't needed and blame users for wanting it...then it gets added by the Steam devteam anyway.

However, I would also suggest that Valve bring back List View, which was a spreadsheet-like view that showed Steam Cloud functionality and status (including things like sync conflicts) along with a ton of other information in a clear and concise format.

[Tuka]

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

I don't consider Steam Cloud Saves to be a "crucial" feature; it's sometimes useful but not *that* frequently useful. Probably the only time it really benefitted me was when I had two different computers, one more portable than the other, on which I was playing 100% Orange Juice.

For it to be made mandatory (which I understand OP's suggestion is not about) it'd have to be implemented better. For example, it needs manual controls for upload to cloud and download from cloud, as well as seeing what's in the cloud itself.

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

Actually, you know what. Forget everything I said previously. The feature I was requesting was just recently added to the beta release of steam. The developers decided it wasn't so pointless overall.

It's amusing when some people argue that a feature isn't needed and blame users for wanting it...then it gets added by the Steam devteam anyway.

However, I would also suggest that Valve bring back List View, which was a spreadsheet-like view that showed Steam Cloud functionality and status (including things like sync conflicts) along with a ton of other information in a clear and concise format.

Yeah, the detailed list view absolutely needs to come back. And many users are wishing it back ever since they introduced the new library UI. Personally, I really liked that detailed view.

Yeah, steam cloud needs some rework. The implementation to a game is preatty easy and it actually works flawless, if the devs of the game don't try to add it in any sketchy way intentionally (e.g terraria, where cloud save can be turned on and off ingame for each individual file, which is a very fragile process because the game and steam try to do stuff with the files at the same time).
A list where one could see and manage all their saves would be amazing. Well, one already exists but only on their website.
https://store.steampowered.com/account/remotestorage
Unfortunately, it is only accessible by URL, not in the client and not through a button. :/

Even more funny, manual cloud controlls do also exist. But to our dissapointment, they only show up when the save file on the pc and in the cloud do not match up :/

It is kind of frustrating to see that steam would have so much utility build in already, but just not accessible by the press of a button.

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

As usual another person that thinks "just press a button" is how a development process works.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

I don't consider Steam Cloud Saves to be a "crucial" feature; it's sometimes useful but not *that* frequently useful. Probably the only time it really benefitted me was when I had two different computers, one more portable than the other, on which I was playing 100% Orange Juice.

For it to be made mandatory (which I understand OP's suggestion is not about) it'd have to be implemented better. For example, it needs manual controls for upload to cloud and download from cloud, as well as seeing what's in the cloud itself.

It's amusing when some people argue that a feature isn't needed and blame users for wanting it...then it gets added by the Steam devteam anyway.

However, I would also suggest that Valve bring back List View, which was a spreadsheet-like view that showed Steam Cloud functionality and status (including things like sync conflicts) along with a ton of other information in a clear and concise format.

Yeah, the detailed list view absolutely needs to come back. And many users are wishing it back ever since they introduced the new library UI. Personally, I really liked that detailed view.

Yeah, steam cloud needs some rework. The implementation to a game is preatty easy and it actually works flawless, if the devs of the game don't try to add it in any sketchy way intentionally (e.g terraria, where cloud save can be turned on and off ingame for each individual file, which is a very fragile process because the game and steam try to do stuff with the files at the same time).
A list where one could see and manage all their saves would be amazing. Well, one already exists but only on their website.
https://store.steampowered.com/account/remotestorage
Unfortunately, it is only accessible by URL, not in the client and not through a button. :/

Even more funny, manual cloud controlls do also exist. But to our dissapointment, they only show up when the save file on the pc and in the cloud do not match up :/

It is kind of frustrating to see that steam would have so much utility build in already, but just not accessible by the press of a button.

Oh wow thank you for that link! That will be very useful to me the next time I get a suspicious Steam Cloud sync conflict (which I've run into before, and I wasn't doing anything unusual, just revisiting a game long after the last time I'd played it).

And yeah, the removal of List View is a major bummer. The current Steam UI is very unwieldy in comparison, filled with all manner of pictures I don't need, but having no way to display all that information that List View was capable of. There wasn't a good reason for them to just remove it. (Particularly ironic is that GOG Galaxy, with its major UI overhaul, introduced a List View feature.)

Postat inițial de Big Bridge.mp4:

As usual another person that thinks "just press a button" is how a development process works.

...?

[Phoenix]

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

Because of this, it would be neat if the games that do not support cloud saves could have a clearly visible, red symbol that alerts the player about this missing feature.

Something like this:
https://imgur.com/a/MsRCIgu

People: Such a feature is stupid and uneeded.

Valve: Doesn't integrate said feature

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

It's amusing when some people argue that a feature isn't needed and blame users for wanting it...then it gets added by the Steam devteam anyway.

Quint, mabye check your facts first before trying to be witty.

[Tuka]

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

Because of this, it would be neat if the games that do not support cloud saves could have a clearly visible, red symbol that alerts the player about this missing feature.

Something like this:
https://imgur.com/a/MsRCIgu

People: Such a feature is stupid and uneeded.

Valve: Doesn't integrate said feature

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

It's amusing when some people argue that a feature isn't needed and blame users for wanting it...then it gets added by the Steam devteam anyway.

:lunar2019crylaughingpig:

Quint, mabye check your facts first before trying to be witty.

I recommend that you check the facts too. Vavle already implemented such a feature, that is now avaiable in the Steam Beta relase. To my bad, I failed to realise that before I wrote my suggestion. They now display a huge and clearly visible cloud icon next to the play button if a game supports cloud save. In the cloud, a ✅ is shown when the files are synced, a 🔁 when it is syncing and I think a ❌ when something failed.
Boom, exactly what was needed. A clear, instantly visible indicator in your library that shows if a game supports cloud saves, even with the addition to show you the status to it.

Now, only a list view would be cool, like the old library had, but that is another topic.

[Phoenix]

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

I recommend that you check the facts too. Vavle already implemented such a feature,

No Tuka, Valve implemented no such feature as you were requesting - I should know because I did my reasearch and also checked the beta myself before my above post.

Your request - as per your OP - was that Vale add an indicator for unsupported features. specifically, a red indicator for a feature that is entirely optional, something that I pointed out would not only be annoying to players, devs and publishers but also highly misleading because cloud functionality and Steamworks integration is entirely optional according to Valve themselves.

What they did was move the the cloud saves indicator up a level so it is now also visible directly on the library page without having to click in the "info" button.

What they did not do is add a pointless and misleading indicator to >100,000 products that don't support cloud features, which is what you were requesting and I (alongside others) was arguing against and pointing out would be a stupid idea.

[Ducks on Fire]

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

Edit: This thread is about suggesting to add an indicator. The discussion is not about enforcing cloudsaves itself. So please don't mix up the topics and only comment on the indicator.

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

This makes it quite annoying when a game doesen't have cloud saves simply because the developers were too lazy or didn't bother to implement such a crutial feature (which should be mandatory btw)

So you are allowed to comment on enforcing cloud saves, but we are now. Got it.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

I recommend that you check the facts too. Vavle already implemented such a feature,

No Tuka, Valve implemented no such feature as you were requesting - I should know because I did my reasearch and also checked the beta myself before my above post.

Your request - as per your OP - was that Vale add an indicator for unsupported features. specifically, a red indicator for a feature that is entirely optional, something that I pointed out would not only be annoying to players, devs and publishers but also highly misleading because cloud functionality and Steamworks integration is entirely optional according to Valve themselves.

What they did was move the the cloud saves indicator up a level so it is now also visible directly on the library page without having to click in the "info" button.

What they did not do is add a pointless and misleading indicator to >100,000 products that don't support cloud features, which is what you were requesting and I (alongside others) was arguing against and pointing out would be a stupid idea.

Phoenix, you could taken the simpler step of just not raising your head as a target of ridicule, instead of attempting to redefine what OP 'emself wants just in order to try to eke a win out of this.

A conspicuous icon for this feature is also noteworthy in its absence. It doesn't have to look exactly like the proof-of-concept image OP provided in order to have the same functionality.

[Phoenix]

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

Phoenix, you could taken the simpler step of just not raising your head as a target of ridicule, instead of attempting to redefine what OP 'emself wants just in order to try to eke a win out of this.

Looks like OP is the one getting ridiculed here, not me. Though given that you have a penchant for redefining what words and sentences mean when they came out of your own mouth and turn out to be counter-factual i'm not surprised

Protip: There is a distinct difference between indicating the presence of a feature and indicating it's absence. OP requested the latter - which would have been a stupid idea - and Valve implemented the former - which is inline with information already available on the library page.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

Phoenix, you could taken the simpler step of just not raising your head as a target of ridicule, instead of attempting to redefine what OP 'emself wants just in order to try to eke a win out of this.

Looks like OP is the one getting ridiculed here, not me. Though given that you have a penchant for redefining what words and sentences mean when they came out of your own mouth and turn out to be counter-factual i'm not surprised :lunar2019crylaughingpig:

Protip: There is a distinct difference between indicating the presence of a feature and indicating it's absence. OP requested the latter - which would have been a stupid idea - and Valve implemented the former - which is inline with information already available on the library page.

I didn't have to redefine anything. What happened is plain to see.

The absence of an indication can be just as meaningful as the presence of it in conveying clear and useful information, as is shown here.

(Meanwhile, you needed to redefine what OP wanted in order to make your argument a thing. And the irony is that you voluntarily named yourself as the party proven wrong.)

[Phoenix]

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

The absence of an indication can be just as meaningful as the presence of it

Yes Quint, the absence, which is the exact opposite of what OP requested. OP wanted indicators for both, because presence of cloud features is already indicated in the info pane, which he also acknowledged.

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

(Meanwhile, you needed to redefine what OP wanted in order to make your argument a thing.

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

Because of this, it would be neat if the games that do not support cloud saves could have a clearly visible, red symbol that alerts the player about this missing feature.

Something like this:
https://imgur.com/a/MsRCIgu

Sure Quint. OP didn't want a red indicator added to ~50,000 games on Steam that don't support cloud features. OP also totally didn't state that most games support cloud features when only a fraction of games do.

By all means Mr. "what do you mean consumer rights exist?", tell us more about things OP didn't actually say.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

The absence of an indication can be just as meaningful as the presence of it

Yes Quint, the absence, which is the exact opposite of what OP requested. OP wanted indicators for both, because presence of cloud features is already indicated in the info pane, which he also acknowledged.

And the new implementation made it clear what games have it and what games don't.

Also, who are you to decide what OP wanted?

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

Postat inițial de Quint the Alligator Snapper:

(Meanwhile, you needed to redefine what OP wanted in order to make your argument a thing.

Postat inițial de TukaWarrior:

Because of this, it would be neat if the games that do not support cloud saves could have a clearly visible, red symbol that alerts the player about this missing feature.

Something like this:
https://imgur.com/a/MsRCIgu

:lunar2019crylaughingpig:

Sure Quint. OP didn't want a red indicator added to ~50,000 games on Steam that don't support cloud features. OP also totally didn't state that most games support cloud features when only a fraction of games do.

The final product doesn't need to look exactly the concept art to have the same functionality. Like I said, the absence of a conspicuous indicator does well to indicate the absence of a feature.

Postat inițial de Phoenix:

By all means Mr. "what do you mean consumer rights exist?", tell us more about things OP didn't actually say.

1. You just made up yet another thing I never said. Congrats, you played yourself. (Seriously, what is with you and making up your own versions of what other people said?)
2. What even do consumer rights have anything to do with this topic?