actually punish ban evasion/alt abuse

[Espejismo]

what's the point of moderation if people just immediately circumvent their ban within minutes by logging into one of their countless alts?

[Brian9824]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Brian9824:

Well yeah, that is why the suggestion is to change that. Nothing wrong with alts or having them, but they should be linked in a way that bans are shared among the alts and the ban counts are tied to ALL alt accounts, not each individual one

Some dev's do also take action on Alt's. I saw one troll on the ATS forum who had a permaban have his alt account immediately permabanned and his posts nuked after he made a single post

Also you do not know if someone's account is a alt account so your just saying lies no one knows this or valve would be shut down for unauthorized spying.

I have ways of knowing that I can't tell you, dev's do to. Hence why as mentioned when I sent them a message about someone using an alt on the ATS forum they quickly verified it and nuked and banned the alt.

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Brian9824:

Well yeah, that is why the suggestion is to change that. Nothing wrong with alts or having them, but they should be linked in a way that bans are shared among the alts and the ban counts are tied to ALL alt accounts, not each individual one

Some dev's do also take action on Alt's. I saw one troll on the ATS forum who had a permaban have his alt account immediately permabanned and his posts nuked after he made a single post

It not possible and valve would be sued if they did as they are banning other people's accounts for no reason when they didn't violate the rules. People have kids etc.

There are ways to tell that, I can't tell you that because i'm not allowed to, but there are ways to get it very accurate with little to no false positives. If there are the potential for false positives you would flag those cases and you can use patterns to identify scenarios to further narrow it down.

[Truth]

Ursprungligen skrivet av William Shakesman:

Stopping every single possible abuse vector is a total waste of effort and you need to spend such effort economically.

No one is claiming that except you. You don't need to stop every single possible abuse vector, that doesnt mean you don't stop MOST of the common ones though.

Ursprungligen skrivet av William Shakesman:

Again, if a user evades a ban to not violate the rules, everyone wins.

And if he does violate the rules everyone loses when support could have prevented it from happening. As well as making it possible for someone to routinely break the rules and avoid escalation by constantly changing accounts to avoid escalating bans

It would be like if someone made up 100 fake id's and every time he got arrested he used an alternate ID instead of his real id and avoided stricter punishment for his repeat rule violation.

[The Weasel]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Brian9824:

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

Also you do not know if someone's account is a alt account so your just saying lies no one knows this or valve would be shut down for unauthorized spying.

I have ways of knowing that I can't tell you, dev's do to. Hence why as mentioned when I sent them a message about someone using an alt on the ATS forum they quickly verified it and nuked and banned the alt.

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

It not possible and valve would be sued if they did as they are banning other people's accounts for no reason when they didn't violate the rules. People have kids etc.

There are ways to tell that, I can't tell you that because i'm not allowed to, but there are ways to get it very accurate with little to no false positives. If there are the potential for false positives you would flag those cases and you can use patterns to identify scenarios to further narrow it down.

There is no way to tell. Unless they are illegally spying then valve can be sued by allowing game developers to spy on us Americans without our consent.

[The Weasel]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Brian9824:

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

Also you do not know if someone's account is a alt account so your just saying lies no one knows this or valve would be shut down for unauthorized spying.

I have ways of knowing that I can't tell you, dev's do to. Hence why as mentioned when I sent them a message about someone using an alt on the ATS forum they quickly verified it and nuked and banned the alt.

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

It not possible and valve would be sued if they did as they are banning other people's accounts for no reason when they didn't violate the rules. People have kids etc.

There are ways to tell that, I can't tell you that because i'm not allowed to, but there are ways to get it very accurate with little to no false positives. If there are the potential for false positives you would flag those cases and you can use patterns to identify scenarios to further narrow it down.

And if there is a way then that means valve has been allowing unlawful spying and is liable I will send screenshot to white house to inform them that us Americans could be getting unlawfully spied on. Like tiktok

[Brian9824]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Brian9824:

I have ways of knowing that I can't tell you, dev's do to. Hence why as mentioned when I sent them a message about someone using an alt on the ATS forum they quickly verified it and nuked and banned the alt.



There are ways to tell that, I can't tell you that because i'm not allowed to, but there are ways to get it very accurate with little to no false positives. If there are the potential for false positives you would flag those cases and you can use patterns to identify scenarios to further narrow it down.

There is no way to tell. Unless thre are illegally spying then valve can be sued by allowing game developers to spy on us Americans without our consent.

Well for one it would have nothing to do with game developers, steam itself does it, i mean "COULD" do it, and flag the accounts with info the developers can see on the backend via api calls.

Oh there are quite a few ways, for instance nothing stops steam from writing a unique file/log and tracking all the account changes and account logins on a PC in their file structure. I mean they might already be doing it *wink wink*, but i certainly don't have any inside knowledge or relatives who work at Valve so i can't say.

You can easily cross reference that with posting history, and other "factors" I am not allowed to say that would generate a very short list of potential fraud.

Cross reference that with say people who have gotten more then 3 bans in a year and that would weed it down even more and make a VERY short list to look into and address.

[Brian9824]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

And if there is a way then that means valve has been allowing unlawful spying and is liable I will send screenshot to white house to inform them that us Americans could be getting unlawfully spied on. Like tiktok

Hate to break it to you but its not illegal for Valve to track activity on their own software....

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Prior to VPNs; Devs, sites, etc. We would just ban a router's MAC address, which at the time was public information because it was provided to any server you connected to, effectively making it, well, public to anyone who could see behind the scenes.

No spying needed.

[davidb11]

Does The Weasel even know what spying means?
Eh?

Easily accessed information is not spying.

[Crazy Tiger]

Ursprungligen skrivet av davidb11:

Does The Weasel even know what spying means?
Eh?

Easily accessed information is not spying.

It's just the latest addition to the alt troll misinformation contrarian group, it seems.

[davidb11]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crazy Tiger:

Ursprungligen skrivet av davidb11:

Does The Weasel even know what spying means?
Eh?

Easily accessed information is not spying.

It's just the latest addition to the alt troll misinformation contrarian group, it seems.

Ah.
I really wish Valve would get rid of these guys.

[xBCxRangers]

Steams sells the tags for five bucks. And the reason they state you need to spend at least 5 dollars for a game, is that they know people are using alts. They're making money.

And so i suppose the "suggestion" means, they should stop selling them. Others can use them free, but they have run thru the hoops, and are limited as to what they post.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Ursprungligen skrivet av davidb11:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crazy Tiger:

It's just the latest addition to the alt troll misinformation contrarian group, it seems.

Ah.
I really wish Valve would get rid of these guys.

Well the desire to transfer a supposed 20 year badge to an account that was made last year, and the desire to remove post history is pretty self evident by then.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Ursprungligen skrivet av xBCxRangers:

Steams sells the tags for five bucks. And the reason they state you need to spend at least 5 dollars for a game, is that they know people are using alts. They're making money.

And so i suppose the "suggestion" means, they should stop selling them. Others can use them free, but they have run thru the hoops, and are limited as to what they post.

No, hold the original/main account of the owner responsible for the alt's actions. So users can't just make a new account and go troll, without actions being taken on their primary account.

[76561199559798421]

I seen a good point made, and that is yes some individuals try to evade bans and continue to do ban punishable offences, then you have people that do not, they use the forums as intended and then meet with faulty moderation. offenses that don't break the rules and are just simply victims of steam harassment, including user harassment and attack.

Many people within this community are guilty of masquerading on alts, awarding themselves with alt accounts on stupid comments they make. Guilty of trying to deceive the population and the opinions by using a majority rule type of gang bullying.

I even have seen someone using two accounts with the same name, making it painfully obvious. In fact one time on CSGO i even went to report a individual for cheating but my steam hub overlay was down so i searched for the name and came up with 5 identical accounts, profile and avatars where all the same. several of the accounts where vac banned which of course i reported the one that wasn't. obvious conclusion.



I believe many of you are well aware of the Steam Voting which is limited to paying accounts being able to vote, but then we have a issue where some games own dozen of full steam accounts which can purposely uptick the game vote, we have users who own multiple accounts so they don't really worry if they harass or attack individuals because if they do get banned they just grab another one of the accounts.

returning to the one user who was using a server to post 120 different steam reviews at once, again those are 120 full steam accounts with access to writing reviews, they could easily manipulate a vote with 120 up ticks in a second. Extremely negative impact on a real game vote.

The reality is the whole forum, the voting, the reviews are all false and manipulated. Steam can't really clean up this mess because if we break it down, and only allow customers 1 account, that is verified , paid for, and with no duplicate payment method we will still have customers using the names of others with other forms of payment methods to fake the system.

And its in steams best interest to allow 1 person to own dozen of steam accounts because it creates more user base which represents steams growth.

I pretty much feel nothing i say on the steam forums really matters, and nothing other say really matters either, its just a time killer. If i can warn 1 person to be cautious then its a bonus for steam.

If my warning of 1 person creates 1 less person that gets scammed or manipulated by steams seedy population then the only people hurt are the scammers who have one less person to manipulate.

[Mad Scientist]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Weasel:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Brian9824:

I have ways of knowing that I can't tell you, dev's do to. Hence why as mentioned when I sent them a message about someone using an alt on the ATS forum they quickly verified it and nuked and banned the alt.



There are ways to tell that, I can't tell you that because i'm not allowed to, but there are ways to get it very accurate with little to no false positives. If there are the potential for false positives you would flag those cases and you can use patterns to identify scenarios to further narrow it down.

And if there is a way then that means valve has been allowing unlawful spying and is liable I will send screenshot to white house to inform them that us Americans could be getting unlawfully spied on. Like tiktok

Literally none of the methods of detection would be considered as spying.

Facebook and Google collect far more than that and people have no issues using those.