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imsouporcereal Oct 14, 2024 @ 9:51am
First dev to make a functional Anti-cheat will be unfathomably rich.
I'm shocked that there's not a 1960's-esque moon race to construct the best anti-cheat system ever conceived.

You will be so rich if you solve this problem.

Also, the first president to run on a policy of making cheating in video games a federal crime will win for free.
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Originally posted by Gwarsbane:
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
I'm shocked that there's not a 1960's-esque moon race to construct the best anti-cheat system ever conceived.

You will be so rich if you solve this problem.

Also, the first president to run on a policy of making cheating in video games a federal crime will win for free.


China... which has laws against cheating in games and has FAR less freedoms than most other countries... still has lots of cheaters in games.... so no... laws against cheating in video games will not work the way you think it will.


Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:
You might want to consider that for game devs it often is a balance act in an uphill battle that isn't always worth the additional costs, especially the way some userbases are.

And some game devs simply don't care at all, mind. That's fine, it's their game after all.


Because unlike you, other people realise that the issue is human nature which isn't so easily solved.

That said, there is always less cheaters than people claim there are, cause people are very quick to label good players as cheaters. The rest (prices or game quality) is just subjective nonsense that is irrelevant anyway.
I love how just suggesting progress is always met with "yOu dOn't uNderStanD thE issUe."

Very productive... as if everyone doesn't already understand why cheats are still so prevalent in competitive games. Read the title of the post and try again.

Well you don't understand the issues of making an anti-cheat... and there is a reason why I have a copy and paste response to these "I have a great idea to stop cheaters" & "DO SOMETHING" threads that are always popping up because people just don't seem to understand how things actually work...

Copy and paste for every time a "I have a great idea to stop cheating" and the "DO SOMETHING" posts that always happen because people don't bother to use the search feature...

While below is mainly aimed at VAC, it can be said about any anti-cheat software.

Do you really think that they just sit there saying, "oh we have the perfect way to stop all hackers/cheaters once and for all, but we're just not going to do it cause we're lazy, ohh look at that, more money just rolled in, time to sit back doing nothing again"....

You have no idea how hard it is to stop hackers/cheater.

Blocking IPs are pointless, IPs can be changed in seconds, also if you block a single IP you could end up blocking lots of innocent people specially if the ISPs reuse IPs.

Blocking Hardware IDs is also as pointless, they can be changed and if you sell off your hardware, anyone who gets it will be banned.

Asking for some form of ID is pointless without anyway for Valve to actually Verify that ID is actually real. There is this thing called photo editing, its easily done by just about anyone. So sending pictures of the ID is pointless. There is no government databases that Valve can tap into from every single country they sell in the world because no government in their right mind would ever allow a game company access to private information.

Take the US all on its own, there are 50 different states, each with their own IDs, there is no single US ID so that would be 50 different databases Valve would need access too. Canada, same thing, each province and territory has their own Provincial ID, no actual Canadian ID. Now think about the hundreds of countries out there that are setup the same way.

There is no place that people can take their IDs to get verified because it would cost Valve a lot of money to pay those places to do that for them. You would also need a lot of places because no one is going to drive even miles every time they need to get their ID checked.

Most people do not have passports and to get one is very expensive, least it is in my country and its only good for a few years. If I'm not traveling outside of my country why do I need a passport?

Phone calls to talk to someone, pointless & expensive.

Require phone numbers won't work because there are free services out there that allow you to get free numbers and free texting. Also not everyone has a cell phone.

Sending someone to persons home, very expensive.

Limiting the number of accounts people can make is not possible. For one thing, Valve has no idea who is sitting at the keyboard. If you have 1 PC but have a family of 4 or 5 or more that all use that PC for gaming, and each of them has their own account, you just made it impossible for that family to have their own games on their own accounts, which is better then every single game for kids and adults on one account.

Valve can't even use a camera on the PC to see who is behind the keyboard because not all PCs have webcam. I (and may of my friends) don't use webcams. If I had a laptop with one, I would have tape over it. Cell phone has a case that covers the selfie camera.


Valve has to know about the hack and has to get their hands on it.
Then they have to figure out how it does its thing.
Then they have to figure out how to detect someone using it.
Then they have to figure out how to make sure they don't get any false positives.
Then they make it go active for a few weeks before actually hitting the kill switch.

Even before hitting the waiting time, this could be a few weeks work or more.

Why do they wait a few weeks to hit the kill switch? To get as many cheaters as they can in the net so that once they turn it on, the roaches don't go screaming to people "don't turn on the hack, its been detected".

Valve is also working on an automated way to detect cheating with teaching an AI what to look for. BUT this takes a long time to do and even then its not going to be perfect. Valve needs it to be perfect, to not create false positives that ban people who didn't actually cheat.

Now, do you know how easy it is for a cheat maker to change the cheat to make it undetectable? Sometimes its as simple as changing a few lines of code and thats it. Basically a few minutes work, then compile the program, test it, and upload it somewhere.

So if you want to help Valve, stop making posts like this. Look for people spreading urls to websites with hacks and send those urls (for the hacks and hack sites) to steam support. Don't post them in public, just send it to steam support.

If the game is not VAC protected, then you have to contact the game developer/publisher via the games discussion area and ask them how to submit the stuff to them.
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
Pscht Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:03am 
Maybe because the moon doesn't randomly move out of the way.

As for "crime", next time do some googlin' before/instead of posting.
#1
imsouporcereal Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:17am 
Originally posted by Pscht:
Maybe because the moon doesn't randomly move out of the way.
The Earth is spinning and the moon is revolving around it. The moon is literally moving out of the way. The same way the cheats are "moving out of the way" by getting more and more complex and hard to detect.

Originally posted by Pscht:
As for "crime", next time do some googlin' before/instead of posting.
Feel better? Imagine unironically being the "aCkShuLLy" guy for no reason at all. Maybe do some thinking before you reply to a post.

Edit: Oh wait... you're a cheater. Got it.
Last edited by imsouporcereal; Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:18am
#2
Crazy Tiger Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:20am 
There is no silver bullet to cheating. You'll have to change human nature for that. It'll always be an uphill battle against the creators of cheat software.

Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
Edit: Oh wait... you're a cheater. Got it.
Immediately assuming and insulting? There goes every shred of credibility OP had...
#3
HikariLight Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:23am 
No anti cheat is perfect.
The cheat makers are going to update their cheats the moment their cheats get caught, so that they can continue to cheat.
It is a neverending game of cat and mouse.
#4
Start_Running Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:23am 
There is. And anti-cheats are constantly being developed. the problem is.. the cheats are being developed at the same if not faster pace. Once they know what the anti cheat looks for they work around it so the anti cheat has to figure something else out.. and so the wheel turns.

I mean it is technically possible to create a full blown foolproof anticheat but it would require tyhe user's computer to be a closed system. Basically you'd have no control over your stystem, the software, or anything else.

Are you willing to give that up OP?
#5
imsouporcereal Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:31am 
Originally posted by HikariLight:
No anti cheat is perfect.
The cheat makers are going to update their cheats the moment their cheats get caught, so that they can continue to cheat.
It is a neverending game of cat and mouse.
Cat and mouse? Who's the cheater in that metaphor?

Because devs are losing the cheater war so badly that it appears they're not even trying.
#6
imsouporcereal Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:35am 
Originally posted by Start_Running:
There is. And anti-cheats are constantly being developed. the problem is.. the cheats are being developed at the same if not faster pace. Once they know what the anti cheat looks for they work around it so the anti cheat has to figure something else out.. and so the wheel turns.

I mean it is technically possible to create a full blown foolproof anticheat but it would require tyhe user's computer to be a closed system. Basically you'd have no control over your stystem, the software, or anything else.

Are you willing to give that up OP?
So a console? Because there's cheaters on consoles too via peripherals.

I honestly don't understand why gamers are so short-sighted and pessimistic about every lingering issue in the industry.

"Prices are too high." Give up.
"Cheaters are everywhere." Can't be fixed bro give up.
"Game quality is horrible today." That's just the new normal bro give up.

Wild... absolutely wild behavior. We're so cooked.
#7
Crazy Tiger Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:40am 
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
Because devs are losing the cheater war so badly that it appears they're not even trying.
You might want to consider that for game devs it often is a balance act in an uphill battle that isn't always worth the additional costs, especially the way some userbases are.

And some game devs simply don't care at all, mind. That's fine, it's their game after all.

Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
I honestly don't understand why gamers are so short-sighted and pessimistic about every lingering issue in the industry.
Because unlike you, other people realise that the issue is human nature which isn't so easily solved.

That said, there is always less cheaters than people claim there are, cause people are very quick to label good players as cheaters. The rest (prices or game quality) is just subjective nonsense that is irrelevant anyway.
#8
imsouporcereal Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:40am 
Originally posted by Thermal Lance:
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
So a console? Because there's cheaters on consoles too via peripherals.

I honestly don't understand why gamers are so short-sighted and pessimistic about every lingering issue in the industry.

"Prices are too high." Give up.
"Cheaters are everywhere." Can't be fixed bro give up.
"Game quality is horrible today." That's just the new normal bro give up.

Wild... absolutely wild behavior. We're so cooked.
It's a no-win scenario. It's not really about giving up. It is what it is.
"It is what it is" is the literal definition of giving up.

I did not expect universal apathy and pathetic mentalities when I posted this.

gg

You guys win.
Last edited by imsouporcereal; Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:40am
#9
Boblin the Goblin Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:42am 
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
Originally posted by Start_Running:
There is. And anti-cheats are constantly being developed. the problem is.. the cheats are being developed at the same if not faster pace. Once they know what the anti cheat looks for they work around it so the anti cheat has to figure something else out.. and so the wheel turns.

I mean it is technically possible to create a full blown foolproof anticheat but it would require tyhe user's computer to be a closed system. Basically you'd have no control over your stystem, the software, or anything else.

Are you willing to give that up OP?
So a console? Because there's cheaters on consoles too via peripherals.

I honestly don't understand why gamers are so short-sighted and pessimistic about every lingering issue in the industry.

"Prices are too high." Give up.
"Cheaters are everywhere." Can't be fixed bro give up.
"Game quality is horrible today." That's just the new normal bro give up.

Wild... absolutely wild behavior. We're so cooked.
It's not being short sighted. It's understanding how cheats work.

Cheats for games are constantly evolving. There used to not be a need for kernel level anti-cheat. Then cheats started being made that function from that layer.

It will always be cat and mouse unless you are willing to have no actual control over your system. Peripherals and all.
#10
imsouporcereal Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:45am 
Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
Because devs are losing the cheater war so badly that it appears they're not even trying.
You might want to consider that for game devs it often is a balance act in an uphill battle that isn't always worth the additional costs, especially the way some userbases are.

And some game devs simply don't care at all, mind. That's fine, it's their game after all.

Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
I honestly don't understand why gamers are so short-sighted and pessimistic about every lingering issue in the industry.
Because unlike you, other people realise that the issue is human nature which isn't so easily solved.

That said, there is always less cheaters than people claim there are, cause people are very quick to label good players as cheaters. The rest (prices or game quality) is just subjective nonsense that is irrelevant anyway.
I love how just suggesting progress is always met with "yOu dOn't uNderStanD thE issUe."

Very productive... as if everyone doesn't already understand why cheats are still so prevalent in competitive games. Read the title of the post and try again.
#11
mldb88 Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:47am 
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:
You might want to consider that for game devs it often is a balance act in an uphill battle that isn't always worth the additional costs, especially the way some userbases are.

And some game devs simply don't care at all, mind. That's fine, it's their game after all.


Because unlike you, other people realise that the issue is human nature which isn't so easily solved.

That said, there is always less cheaters than people claim there are, cause people are very quick to label good players as cheaters. The rest (prices or game quality) is just subjective nonsense that is irrelevant anyway.
I love how just suggesting progress is always met with "yOu dOn't uNderStanD thE issUe."

Very productive... as if everyone doesn't already understand why cheats are still so prevalent in competitive games. Read the title of the post and try again.

I mean, when the issue is that you have to resort to insults instead of actually having a real counterpoint because, in fact, you don't actually understand the issue... well what exactly did you expect?
#12
Crazy Tiger Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:48am 
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:
You might want to consider that for game devs it often is a balance act in an uphill battle that isn't always worth the additional costs, especially the way some userbases are.

And some game devs simply don't care at all, mind. That's fine, it's their game after all.


Because unlike you, other people realise that the issue is human nature which isn't so easily solved.

That said, there is always less cheaters than people claim there are, cause people are very quick to label good players as cheaters. The rest (prices or game quality) is just subjective nonsense that is irrelevant anyway.
I love how just suggesting progress is always met with "yOu dOn't uNderStanD thE issUe."

Very productive... as if everyone doesn't already understand why cheats are still so prevalent in competitive games. Read the title of the post and try again.
As said, there is no silver bullet to cheating. You can try to fight that wind mill, but that's not productive either.

You're just version #67854 of people who think they have a solution to a problem that can't be solved that easily.
Even the countries where cheating *is* a crime, it's still a main issue. Which just shows the issue, but of course you'll ignore that.
#13
imsouporcereal Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:55am 
Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
I love how just suggesting progress is always met with "yOu dOn't uNderStanD thE issUe."

Very productive... as if everyone doesn't already understand why cheats are still so prevalent in competitive games. Read the title of the post and try again.
As said, there is no silver bullet to cheating. You can try to fight that wind mill, but that's not productive either.

You're just version #67854 of people who think they have a solution to a problem that can't be solved that easily.
Even the countries where cheating *is* a crime, it's still a main issue. Which just shows the issue, but of course you'll ignore that.
Merely suggesting devs/third parties should be RnD-ing a better anti-cheat solution is met with these kinds of responses. Reason #67854 why video game quality is in a death spiral.
#14
imsouporcereal Oct 14, 2024 @ 10:56am 
Originally posted by Thermal Lance:
Originally posted by imsouporcereal:
apathy and pathetic mentalities \
Projecting hard?
By describing what's occurring? Nailed it.
#15
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Date Posted: Oct 14, 2024 @ 9:51am
Posts: 17
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