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I always find it funny when people accuse me of such.
To quote a foxy lady -"Temper?! You haven't even seen my temper yet!"
Bonus internet points if you can say the game I'm refering to,
It's not a bad suggestion on thge surface. It's just one of those features that'd be likely more trouble than it's worth. Hence my suggestion. If you want your review to be helpful, review it in the language you understand that has the least number of reviews.
It's the annoyiung thing that when you come up with an idea, you have to consider what happens when people use it win the wrong way. I mean the gift system is perfectly sound idea on paper and in logic. But we see how frequent misuse has been the cause of many a, "Does steam restore scammed items?" threads
Based on absolutely nothing.
Again, you're rehashing your false view from months ago and ending up with completely out of touch ideas about Steam's infrastructure such as server load and still calling it a "might cause trouble"
Still obsessively defending the same position. You won't get to have two or more different reviews on the same product. You get to have different language versions of the same review that are logically voted in their own language by the people who prefer that language. That's not even a discussion, that's the rational way to handle something like this; hence it's the path that such implementation would take.
False equivalency.
Gift system has no relevance or similarities with review system both theoratically and practically. Review system is a harmless feature that has no purpose other than people sharing their opinions. Any attempt of misuse is a subject to reader's votes and their ability to report to the moderation, thus the only way for a misuse within the review system is through an organized attempt which could be abolished fast assuming moderation responds fast. Even that's a statistically exception.
There's absolutely no argument regarding "misuse" you pull out of thin air, just because you argued a thing that came to your mind at the first glance months ago.
Unsubscribe from this topic and go on with your life.
----
You don't have an opinion. The below post isn't an opinion.
You have not shared any thoughts of yours about the topic or the discussion here. You're just being a part of the argument starting with an ad hominem while accusing me of both ad hominem and trolling.
Thus, You have nothing to say here. You're not a legitimate Steam account, you're somebody's Discussions dump.
Buzz off.
Fact. Storing 2-20 reviews from one person for the same product will will require more space than storing one review. That data has to be transmitted. transmission requires bandwidth. This is not speculatiuon. Thes are hard facts about data storage.
And yet it's a path no other store takes. Amazon doesn't do this. Neither does Youtube really. GoG, origin, Newegg, Wallmart. See. They don't see it as a problem. It's more a problem that ghaving one person spamming reviews makes keeping counts accurate a little harder. More work for them, very little concrete benefit for the store or the people selling on it.
Also very little desire from the readers. As said. How often have you wished to see the opinions of someone else on a game in another language that you happen to speak.
Do you read a review in english and say. "Well this review is good, but it'd be nice if I want to read this in Catalan just to be sure." Or. "I can't read this chinese review. At all. but its so long that I want to read it in english."
For the rare mutants out there that have the free time for that. Google translate exists.
Why? because it is an argument you can't counter?
You have to consider how people will misuse a feature. Whether by accident, out of ignorance, or by deliberate intent.
And troll, spam reviews aren't a thing already. As is , any one wanting to spam, troll or fake review can only do it once. With this feature they can do it up to 20 times. Which means that people in other languages would start seeing upticks in theise sorts of reviews which makes reader experience even more of a pain.
Limited staff, and millions of review pages. As is its bad enough when they only have each person only able to leave one review per game. But when they are able to leave up to 20... yikes. That's time,. Time is money. And again, does this feature make more money?
This new feature would increase storage ,, increase bandwidth usage and increase manhours. Just because a few people want to collect more upvotes?
lead by example.
How amazing.
It is a fact that storing data does, in fact, requires space. It is not a known fact that storing two more reviews for the same product in an environment that allows unlimited reviews from unlimited users would be a considerable problem as your previous argument clearly states about Steam *might* having problems prior to the implementation of such a feature. No, you don't have any hard evidence regarding this.
That's the most pathetic way of countering an argument. Don't do that ever in your life again. Anyone with half the brain will just laugh at your attempt to fabricate an argument.
Again, False Equivalency. - and don't have the audacity to ask why as if you're smart, read the rest of the thing.
Amazon is a company that sells physical products for people in their respective countries. If Amazon supports a specific language, it means Amazon sells products in that particular country, thus they have customer support in that particular country in that particular language; hence having Polish and English for the same product under ".co.uk" while they sell the equivalent of that product under ".pl" would be amazingly pointless and would serve no purpose.
Youtube isn't even a relevant example. Don't try this hard.
As for platforms like GoG, they probably should consider this practice. Regardless, just because they did not think about it, doesn't mean it should not be the case for a multinational and multilingual platform to support such a feature. Completely irrelevant and pointless argument that led us absolutely nowhere. All thanks to you.
You argue that because people who knows English also statistically is not quite interested in other languages. What a brilliant way to fabricate yet another petty argument. No, people who knows English will probably just read the reviews that were written in English, however the fact that there are people who prefer to write in their primary languages exists is the sole *fact* that there is a demand for reviews in different languages on Steam. Thus there cannot possibly be more readers of English than probably the readers of all the other languages combined, it'll always be a statistical demand that will require such a localized effort.
You're walking a really, really wrong path.
Are you seriously asking why before quoting the exact answer right below that line? You amaze me. You're an amazing side of this discussion. I salute your effort to make yourself look like the smart one in this discussion.
I don't even have to quote my previous paragraph as you've already done it on your post just below your way too cringey question "Why?" Christ...
Except there can not be any misuse cases that do not exist today. Which would be a common problem with review system itself and wouldn't be direct issue with the subject feature request. - Evidently, there are tools for people to act on such misuse cases today, as they would work in case of such feature gets implemented to Steam ecosystem.
You sure talk quite lot about trolls, spams and fake reviews. Show me a case of trolling, spamming and posting of a fake review that either *has been upvoted dramatically* and/or *is amazingly old and is present on a popular title* please, then we shall see how it is a problem as of today.
With this feature they can post something 20 times? No. As I have explained and you *did not read* on a previous post of mine, you don't get to have 19 more reviews on the same product. You get to have *a* review in 19 different languages. However as we go back to the previous paragraph where I clearly state the logic of voting and reporting, what do you think about such an attempt might end up like? Exactly as it would've end up like today, as of today, right damn now. They become absolutely nothing.
Great, now you like the number 20.
Speaking about numbers, in this paragraph you clearly *claim* that there would be such a huge spike on reporting because this feature is implemented, that Steam staff could not answer every single call. Aside from you *lack of statistical evidence* regarding this, let me tell you why you're wrong:
- Steam staff *does not moderate reviews*, not at least on a regular basis. Reviews and Discussions are handled by that product's development team. Steam staff on gets involved if there's a huge problem with that particular ecosystem. Thus Steam staff has nothing to do with this "issue." Your babbling about manhours is utter rubbish.
- You're still stating that this feature would increase storage and I've already explained why that's the most illogical assumption you could've made in the very first paragraph of this post. You also claim that it would increase bandwitdh - which is *a perfect indication* that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
- Also you just have claimed that having review in multiple languages would be a problem for Steam. Which clearly is not. That's why I said you were walking a very wrong path.
You're trying way too hard here. Don't do it.
Longf story short. It's one thing when you have toa ccount for 100 million people leaving 1 review a piece on a single game. It's an order of magnitude different from 100 million people having up to 20 reviews for a single product.
The number of Countries Amazon supports delivery to is vastly greater than the number of counrties they actually have offices in. Also you kinda missed the poiint . Amazon does exactly what steam does currently. Steam by default shows you the review in the primary language of your account. The user can also freely change this on the store page. What you're suggesting is that the person who write s a polish review should be allowed to write it in english, german and Dutch. AMazon doesn't allow that. Steam doesn't allow that. No store allows that. You pick one.
That's more a commentary on your ability to see and understand, or rather the lack there of.
You assume they didn't but on the contrary, they very likely did. Gog especially given where they're based. But they did not see a benefit in doing so. Not to themselves, their partners, not even especially to the readers.
And very little stops them from writing in their primary language. Assuming it's one opf the 20+ supported by steam. You just have to choose one. IIdeally, you should go with the one least represented.
STrawman arguement. Will ignore.
Except there can not be any misuse cases that do not exist today.[/quote]
Aside from just increasing the magnitude of the misuse cases. 1 vs 20. Think man, think.
This probably goes to show just how much time you spend tooling around the review system.
So you want steam to automatically translate a review like with Google Translate... that will be hilarious.
They become a pain for the people who have to then look at the report and the review and evaluate the veracity of the report.
Well steam does support over 20 languages for reviews but I decided to keep it to peasy round numbers for your sake.
I never claimed there would be a huge spike, just that with the increasing visibility and reach of tollers and spammers, you would reasonably see an increase in reports. The size of the increase. Unknown, but it would be a factor of the increase in the number of written reviews. That's still an increase and that means someone has toi spend more time. Time is money. And this boils back to the question.. does this feature actually make money for Valve, the publishers? Does it really make that much more of a noticeable difference to the readers?
It would take up more storage sweetie. The same way having two files on a disk will take up more storage than one file (unless one file is a 0Kb file.)
Problem,. As in, it;s a feature that would cost them, storage, manhhours, and bandwidth. , with no visible gain in return.
Sweetie. Take a nice cup of chamomile tea and follow your own advice. Just unsubscribe from this discussion. You're done.
Jesus, you're still at it. You're exaggarating the numbers in order to make your petty argument look right. No, there aren't 100 million people reviewing a product on Steam and there won't be 100 million people reviewing on 20 languages. The difference from before and after can't even be significant given to the fact that only a small portion of all Steam users do actually write a review, yet writing a review in a different language. - Aside from that, give me a damn statistical evidence that Steam will end up with problems if such a feature is present.
How did I miss the point exactly? That's THE SAME THING I told you. Amazon is a different company, their localized business is different than Steam's, thus what they sell in Polish gets Polish reviews and what they sell in English gets English reviews. Steam doesn't do it. Steam simply sells games might or might not available in any other language than English. But Steam supports a vast variety of languages, thus they allow a variety of languages when it comes to customer reviews. In fact you can get German reviews while using English UI on an English-only product. That's not the same thing. How IMPOSSIBLE it is to understand, it's not a difficult concept.
Stop using this argument. Stop. It's flawed. Stop it.
Pathetic attempt to justify your dumb Youtube example. Don't give examples out of nothing ever again.
Really? Did GoG support multiple languages on their websites on the scale of Steam and allowed reviews in those languages in the past years and got rid off the whole thing suddenly? Did they allow their reviewers to have their reviews separated in different languages?
Do you even understand what you claim here by posting this paragraph discussing this subject?
Still exaggarating the numbers. Desperation.
There's no such magnitude. There's no statistical evidence that such magnitude would be the case. We don't even have the exact statistics of how many misuse cases there are on the entire Steam review system and how likely this misuse cases could abuse the feature.
You don't seem to get it: You are fabricating this scale. You are pulling these measurements out of thin air. It's not reality. You're deliberately lying here to defend this argument.
Provide a valid answer or GTFO.
Quote the exact paragraph I've stated this. Again, fabricating an argument just to argue with me. For future reference, this person lies here.
Unless they're under an organized spam by a group of people... No, actually that even isn't a problem today. You can't expect a person to troll in one language and write a legitimate review in another on the same product. So one would safely assume that the subject Steam account is there to spam, thus all the reviews could go at once. Safely.
That's not an argument. There's no written indication regarding a feature has to make money for Valve- Jesus Christ, that's the next argument.
Anyhow, going back to statistics. You claim somebody has to spend more time on misuse cases on their pages after the implementation of such a feature than the ones that are current. You believe somebody would have to read all the review versions of a particular Steam users before concluding "obvious spam is obvious" - Illogical assumption. Theoratically, developers should not be spending more time on versions of a particular review to conclude that the reported review is in fact a spam message.
Not very bright, are we?
You don't have to say the same pointless thing again and again. You don't suddenly develop storage problems in an ecosystem that is designed to store theoratically unlimited reviews from unlimited possible customers. There's no such argument, it's completely out of question. The problem is not a piece of text taking space on a bigger scale, the problem is that you're not admitting that Steam, just like a forum and just like their forums, has designed the review system with this scale in their minds.
If you make the mistake of insisting, prove that Steam would develop a particular capacity problem when it comes to reviews in such a case, since that is your claim there would be a storage problem.
* It wouldn't cost Steam storage, see above. (wouldn't be something they're not prepared for)
* It wouldn't cost Steam manhours, see my previous post.
* It wouldn't cost Steam bandwitdh, see above. (wouldn't be something they're not prepared for)
You're trying to measure ♥♥♥♥♥ instead of actually trying to discuss this. You're deliberately dismissing arguments and/or lying about particular mechanisms or my words in order to make yourself look right. If you believe I'm done, then buzz off never to return to this topic.
Such a burden.
That's the first consideration for any feature or task a for profit business undertakes. Resources are finite, so you have to get the maximum returns for the resources you expend.
Storage, Bandwidth, Manhours. Money. These the resources implementing such a feature will require sweetie. So...yeah.
It''ll make more sense when you're older and start working.
BNope. Though your use of the royal/formal 'we' is amusing.
There's a difference between a system built to account for linear scaling vs a system designed to account for. exponential scaling.
The forum doesn't have to be loaded every time someone views a store page luv.
They would have to use more storage space per review potentially. Again. Linear vs Exponential growth
Manhours to make the changes, test, implemnt and maintain. Or do you think people just work for free?
More data being transmitted. Equals more bandwidth being used.
As said. Go sit down, read a book and educate yourself a little. and stop necroing threads.
Yes, by providing services for people not by measuring how would they make money out of them. That's generally how service business like Steam work. Quality of life changes such as this feature request are inevitable parts of bettering a service business. Thus, they make money. It doesn't have to make money directly, it does have to sell convenience.
That's the most pathetic line I've witnessed today. Your desperation knows no limits.
Unnecessary exposition followed by absolutely no claim regarding Steam's claimed but not even theoratically proven storage problem, that could develop by sudden increase in review count because the platform itself is clearly free of any kind of structures from a practically indifferent review system to practically no different forum system due to concerns over spike in increasing storage demand, whatsoever.
Perhaps somebody should report your lines because of spamming unneeded and unrelated phrases.
Neither reviews. You don't get all reviews of all languages loaded at every single time you load a product page. That would be impractical. It's in fact a very, very bad design idea that no legitimate development team would ever consider. There's no factual point you have there, have you?
Practically and in fact evidently a dumb argument. Let me rephrase myself:
"Unnecessary exposition followed by absolutely no claim regarding Steam's claimed but not even theoratically proven storage problem, that could develop by sudden increase in review count because the platform itself is clearly free of any kind of structures from a practically indifferent review system to practically no different forum system due to concerns over spike in increasing storage demand, whatsoever."
That's a changing the basis of your argument here. You were claiming somebody had to sit through entire reports out of review system due to changes applied, now you claim developing the Steam platform costs money. Good.
This exact phrase means people doing what they're hired to do costs Valve money. That's an amazing point about Valve. Good for them.
On demand, not all the time. Same data is being transmitted right now on an average product page would apply to the exactly same product page after this feature gets implemented. There should be no difference on load of a page. Otherwise it would be an optimization nightmare which, again, is not something a legitimate developer would even consider.
You're completely out of your mind.
Why 20x times bigger? It will be great to have option to write review in TWO selected languages out of all variety. Where the 20 came from? If Steam have more than 20 languages it doesn't mean someone in his right mind want to provide reviews in all of them, it's ridiculous to assume and ridiculous to allow such an option.
Out of million active users maybe only 5% care to write review, and only 5% of them may want to do it in two languages.
So increase of DB by 5% that considerable? (considering that databases expected to be the smallest part of all data stored on servers)
Yeah, bigger DB have slower response time, but for big organizations DBs usually divided in many sections anyway, so load increase may be much smaller number than DB data increase (in well-organized optimized structure).
(It also mean that with given example numbers demand of such a feature will be 0,25% but if we include in statistic not only writers but also readers it can be a bit bigger number).
Also OP assumed it like "quality-of-life" change not profitable change. Usually it done by ones who cares about comfort of clients not only profit numbers. But I agree that most of services start to think about "comfort of clients" only by pressure of competing organizations when they need an advantage to make clients stay. Since Steam don't have equally big competitors, so well, yeah... but people still can suggest something they interested in. I never seen any warning which prohibit to post suggestions without obvious commercial benefit here.
What I don't understand why objecting people here so offensive (and not only in this topic)?
I'm pretty sure that this feature never be implemented because of low demand (when there are much more necessary things like a scalable font in steam-client, for example), but why not discuss pros and cons of suggestion in civilized respectful manner? Since everyone here supposed to be (since not proven otherwise) forum members with equal rights to have their own opinions.
Why do they need devalue opinion of opponent before answer him by personal attack, then derail topic to some unrelated things and make him prove that dogs don't climb trees?
Why apply self-invented childish motivation to suggestion (pretending that they do not understand the real one) and totally ignore all other presented reasons, sticking with most disadvantageous/silly/abusing one?
Well, maybe they do it with good intentions to present worst-case-scenario to show how this system may be abused, but again they could say same thing in more professional and respectful way instead of childish mocking methods.
If their biggest concern to discuss opponent personality and find flaws in it instead of topic they not brave enough to do it in equal way, since they not wish to be judged back by hiding their profiles.
Seen enough pretty adequate "quality-of-life" suggestions where happens exactly the same.
Ad hominem in full bloom, I'd say, which lowers whole level of forum. We are all adults here, can we behave like ones?
And really, when you're looking at a store front, everything about it is geared to one purpose,: sales. Steam is a store, so if you want a feature and you want it to be tasken seriously. Think of a way to prove that the feature will increase sales.
At the very least doing so will force you to think about how your suggestion affects those that are not you, and will give you a hint as to the desirabllity and feasibility of your idea from the people who would actually have to spend money on this feature.
But here's a test. Would you pay $0.20 to lbe able to write your review in one more language aside from your primariy?
Quite honestly, I would buy a languages what I need, without hesitation, if it's permament. But if it will be a subscription, maybe. I think if that would be a subscription, it would be more painfully to implement.
But if we speak of business, why Valve still didn't maybe a access grant for new features for money? Maybe that will a noisy stuff, like paid mods for Skyrim? Who knows. I just throw a guess here.
Usually services care about bigger community which allows them to use it as advantage if they sell something or advertise. If you have a happy community, it recommends this service to other people, allowing the community to constantly grow.
If you have competing services with similar content in quality and quantity, then those who offer more comfort for the user wins.
For only this option? No.
There are many options I need more than this one.
But if we talking about paid options: I'd like to buy certain number of them provided in pack (instead of using third-party scripts), sure.
Like "premium pack" (at once, not subscription. with option send it as a gift), for example, will be great.
I think he meant 0,2$ per review.
That's a rather small way of looking at it. But generally a happy customer returns. But as said. there is a limit. You don't spend more on your customers than they spend on you. You also have to remember, Valve has two classes of customers. Two groups they provide services to.
The buyers and the sellers.
Not really. COnvenience wins, If two stores have the same price and inventory, people will shop at which ever is closest to them. Heck people will shop at the closer store even if it's more expensive. That's why they say location is everything.
ANd again, let's be frank. As said before I see no one clamouring to read the same person's review in multiple languages. From the reader's perspective, this feature is essentiually a non-issue.
It's a simple evaluation of the need. The people asking for it are the people who want to give themselves more exposure. but that's not the focus of the review system. THat's also the reason the reviews have a character limit. A generous one at that, But a limit none the less.
Put it this way. Have you ever seen a customer lounge inside a Wallmart or Payless?
Hell the interesting joke is the most successful stores are those that actually make things less convenient for the customer. Good are laid out in such a way as to ensure most people will walk by a given number of displays .