Compressed versions of games / smaller install for games - steamdeck concern

[SHIELDBRO]

Compressed versions of games are getting more popular, and increasingly, more neccessary. similar in conceit to dlss, getting more out of less, the compresion of games' textures or sound files, honestly not really a compression but a reduction in quality in order to save space, is something which is becoming a basic need with the release of so many games so hungry for hard drive space. with the upcoming steam deck it seems stupid not to consider at least the reduction in files - the size of which begets a resolution and graphic setting far in excess of what the deck will even be capable of, and whose presence would not be missed or even noticed.

an option on download/install to get a steamdeck optimized version of the game? a compressed install with limited graphical options / settings? an integration with steam workshop to allow modders to make compressed versions? something must be possible, for at least some of the games guilty of this bloating.

[SHIELDBRO]

Postat inițial de Gwarsbane:

Compressed games are not a new idea and have been around for a while.

Textures and sound can't be compressed more than they already are unless they are for what ever crazy reason being used in a raw format with zero compression which is just not done in games today. The only way to get their sizes down for Steam Deck would be for the developer to include Deck specific texture pack and have it not include the textures for everything else. But there are lots of other things in the games that take up lots of space too.

There are many games on Steam that use compression already. Payday 2 is one I use as an example as its the one I know best. At one point they were pushing 50 gigs or so. The community complained about the size, so they compressed the game, they got it down to I think under 30 gigs. At this point, people then started complaining about how slow the game was to load and to patch. Now the game is over 70 gigs while still compressed.

So you are going to suffer either way. Either by not being able to install all the games you want, or for the Deck work harder, using more battery by needing to run the game in a compressed format requiring at least some decompressing to play, which also means longer load times.

I suggest getting a few 500 gig or 1TB microSD cards. Maybe put 1 kind of game on each one so its easier to find what you want to play.

Maybe in Steam Deck 2, they will include the ability to have a second physically larger NVME or just have it so that the only drive in there is not limited to the smallest physical size (though even that one has 2TB drives but it is slower). I like the idea of the deck and if I traveled more I'd get one. though I would prefer if I could stick in one of those 8TB m.2 sticks and then just pretty much forget about needing to add more later.

Yeah ideally having a 8tb m.2 stick and forgetting about it would be best, having the option to only download the setting you forsee using would be second best maybe - similar to how MHW does it by segregating the high res textures to a free dlc the same could be applied across the board to anything that has settings differences. That isn't payday compression but straight out removal. Now I know that is just wishful thinking in some cases as not all games are made equal, but for the ones that it might be possible for but unconsidered, maybe that should change.

The Witcher 3 was forced into the switch, and i'm sure the file size that sported was nowhere near the one on my pc at the moment, I think it was 10 GB less then the other console versions, will the switch version be available on the steamdeck? should it be? I think so. Dragons Dogma is 20 GB but the switch version is 13.8 thats a notable difference.

[Gwarsbane]

Until the deck software embargo is over, which I think is the end of this week or next week, we won't know about any of this stuff.

For all you know, this is already happening with the games. What you need to do is find some reviews of it from sites like Gamers Nexus or Linus Tech Tips and specifically ask them about the size of games on the decks they have compared to the same game on a PC. If its the same size or smaller.

But again they might not be able to answer till the embargo is over. (and the embargo is on because they were still tweaking things)

But at the end of the day, this is not a steam issue, this is a game Developer issue. Most of them will not come back to a game that has not had updates for a long time just to make a Steam Deck specific change. Most of them don't need to do that.

[Start_Running]

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

the concept has been on consoles, but not for literal decades, literally decades ago it was.

On fly compression and decompression was used on the NES, GB, Master system, SNES, and Genesis. So yeah. literal decades. Which makes sense since in the cartride era space was at a premium. That was one of the biiiig plusses when the playstation rolled out. Freedom from tthose cartidge limitations.

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

ever since the ps3 sizes have been bloating up like some sort of fat cult. size stopped being an issue and now, with handhelds hopefully back in fashion, it's started being a problem again

Nome , because as others have pointed out, SD storrage, and the like is dirt cheap. What's not cheap is ram, and cpu cycles. So again.. it's essentially a trade off.

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

it does take time and effort to decompress, but the type of compression i'm talking about it to reduce the time and effort, there will be no decompression, you get reduced quality, and you like it.

Time and effor will still be required to creatte two differen ses of arwork, texures, models, skins, effects, etc. All to create what is basicallty a crappier looking and sounding version of your game? Yeah I don't see devs shelling out cash for that.

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

I'm not assuming anything about games or devs already compressing assets, I know for a fact that when I see a 100 GB install of a game it's 100 GB of ♥♥♥♥ thats not gonna fit, and I know for a fact that if Bethesda is behind it half of it can be reduced in size through mods.

That's a You problem. A 500gb hdd costs like $20. Go grab one. Or uninstall some of the crap you're not playing....or since the game storage requiremnts are on the store page.. justt decide not to buy them.

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

rarely have I found reducing the settings in games to decrease my fps - and if games had the option to download only the files required to run it on low settings wouldn't that be a step forwards,

Devs can already do this but most don't fancy creatting multiple sets of artwork for a game.

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

I don't think you'd need to make a new build for a new piece of hardware either, I mean, there isn't a new build of a game for each new graphics card which comes out.

No but they do occasionally wind up making remasters with updated graphics every 10 or so years.

[SHIELDBRO]

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

it does take time and effort to decompress, but the type of compression i'm talking about it to reduce the time and effort, there will be no decompression, you get reduced quality, and you like it.

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Time and effor will still be required to creatte two differen ses of arwork, texures, models, skins, effects, etc. All to create what is basicallty a crappier looking and sounding version of your game? Yeah I don't see devs shelling out cash for that.

You set settings on low and you get a crappier looking and sounding version of most games don't you? lowspecgamer usually goes hard on making games look like crap but run on toasters.

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

I'm not assuming anything about games or devs already compressing assets, I know for a fact that when I see a 100 GB install of a game it's 100 GB of ♥♥♥♥ thats not gonna fit, and I know for a fact that if Bethesda is behind it half of it can be reduced in size through mods.

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

That's a You problem. A 500gb hdd costs like $20. Go grab one. Or uninstall some of the crap you're not playing....or since the game storage requiremnts are on the store page.. justt decide not to buy them.

on the STEAMDECK though, it's an everyone who owns one problem and Steam problem and dev problem. size could very well be a decider on whether to buy a game or not if you want it on the deck

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

rarely have I found reducing the settings in games to decrease my fps - and if games had the option to download only the files required to run it on low settings wouldn't that be a step forwards,

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

No but they do occasionally wind up making remasters with updated graphics every 10 or so years.

I love these remasters if they do more then put HD textures and bloat the size of the install and i'd love them even more if they had the option to install with the remastering but original size, i'm looking at aoe2 remastered and c&c remastered, install sizes are ridiculous.

[SHIELDBRO]

Postat inițial de Gwarsbane:

Until the deck software embargo is over, which I think is the end of this week or next week, we won't know about any of this stuff.

For all you know, this is already happening with the games. What you need to do is find some reviews of it from sites like Gamers Nexus or Linus Tech Tips and specifically ask them about the size of games on the decks they have compared to the same game on a PC. If its the same size or smaller.

But again they might not be able to answer till the embargo is over. (and the embargo is on because they were still tweaking things)

But at the end of the day, this is not a steam issue, this is a game Developer issue. Most of them will not come back to a game that has not had updates for a long time just to make a Steam Deck specific change. Most of them don't need to do that.

Yeah that's true. Could steam make it their issue? is there something steam could feasibly do? Outside of encouraging or incentivizing devs to action is there something that could be done on platform to reduce install sizes? I don't think so, but wildly hope so. The workshop for most games lets you install mods alongside games within steam but if I want to reduce install sizes for skyrim for example I have to go off platform to something like nexus and install and overwrite files either manually or though their tool.

[Start_Running]

It's a compromise.
As a lowspec gamer It is a balance. A stable frame rate doesn't much if it looks like an offense to the eyes. Also changing your settings is entirely different than asking the devs to create new klow res artwork.

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

on the STEAMDECK though, it's an everyone who owns one problem and Steam problem and dev problem. size could very well be a decider on whether to buy a game or not if you want it on the deck

Yeah that's a you problem m8. And as said. This is something devs can already do if they so choose.

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

I love these remasters if they do more then put HD textures and bloat the size of the install and i'd love them even more if they had the option to install with the remastering but original size, i'm looking at aoe2 remastered and c&c remastered, install sizes are ridiculous.

The original artowork would likely be incompatible with the modern engiones. But again. Nothing is stopping devs from doing tha... exceptt for the ratther significantt money and time investment

[Gwarsbane]

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

Postat inițial de Gwarsbane:

Until the deck software embargo is over, which I think is the end of this week or next week, we won't know about any of this stuff.

For all you know, this is already happening with the games. What you need to do is find some reviews of it from sites like Gamers Nexus or Linus Tech Tips and specifically ask them about the size of games on the decks they have compared to the same game on a PC. If its the same size or smaller.

But again they might not be able to answer till the embargo is over. (and the embargo is on because they were still tweaking things)

But at the end of the day, this is not a steam issue, this is a game Developer issue. Most of them will not come back to a game that has not had updates for a long time just to make a Steam Deck specific change. Most of them don't need to do that.

Yeah that's true. Could steam make it their issue? is there something steam could feasibly do? Outside of encouraging or incentivizing devs to action is there something that could be done on platform to reduce install sizes? I don't think so, but wildly hope so. The workshop for most games lets you install mods alongside games within steam but if I want to reduce install sizes for skyrim for example I have to go off platform to something like nexus and install and overwrite files either manually or though their tool.

No they can not make it their issue because that would mean they would illegally have to mess with up to 50,000 games that they do not own the IP to.

Best you can hopeful is Valve doing it to their own games, then shouting out about it and bring attention to the other devs about it.

But it takes time and money to do something like that. If there are no more devs working on a game, its pretty much not going to happen to that game. If the publishers see enough demand they might hire some people to do it, don't count on it. If the devs are still working on the game, it might happen if they see enough demand for it.

The problem, is that at least for now there is not going to be all that many Decks out there. Lets say optimistically there are 200,000 decks sold in the first year (I'm thinking its closer to 50,000 but I also don't know how things are setup for valve so this is all numbers out of my butt right now). 200,000 people out of 120 million active accounts monthly is not much, its around 17% of 1%. So the chances of many devs seeing a huge number of people screaming for something like this is pretty low.

All you can do is go to the games you like and ask them about something like this. To create a version thats much smaller specifically for the Deck if they are not already doing it and if its possible. If they say no then thats your answer. If they say maybe or yes or say nothing, all you can do is wait then.



Again for all we know they have been talking with all the devs that got their hands on a Deck for testing, maybe they have already asked them to do this. Again till the software embargo is over I doubt we will find out. And once it is over if we still don't know, then would be your time to see if any of the tech reviewers can look into that for you. Most will do it if they see a question like this, which is important for many because of how limited the space is.

I do hope though in a future version of the deck, even if its more expensive and the deck is a bit thicker that an easily replaceable full size m.2 drive is included.

[SHIELDBRO]

Postat inițial de Gwarsbane:

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

Yeah that's true. Could steam make it their issue? is there something steam could feasibly do? Outside of encouraging or incentivizing devs to action is there something that could be done on platform to reduce install sizes? I don't think so, but wildly hope so. The workshop for most games lets you install mods alongside games within steam but if I want to reduce install sizes for skyrim for example I have to go off platform to something like nexus and install and overwrite files either manually or though their tool.

No they can not make it their issue because that would mean they would illegally have to mess with up to 50,000 games that they do not own the IP to.

Best you can hopeful is Valve doing it to their own games, then shouting out about it and bring attention to the other devs about it.

But it takes time and money to do something like that. If there are no more devs working on a game, its pretty much not going to happen to that game. If the publishers see enough demand they might hire some people to do it, don't count on it. If the devs are still working on the game, it might happen if they see enough demand for it.

The problem, is that at least for now there is not going to be all that many Decks out there. Lets say optimistically there are 200,000 decks sold in the first year (I'm thinking its closer to 50,000 but I also don't know how things are setup for valve so this is all numbers out of my butt right now). 200,000 people out of 120 million active accounts monthly is not much, its around 17% of 1%. So the chances of many devs seeing a huge number of people screaming for something like this is pretty low.

All you can do is go to the games you like and ask them about something like this. To create a version thats much smaller specifically for the Deck if they are not already doing it and if its possible. If they say no then thats your answer. If they say maybe or yes or say nothing, all you can do is wait then.



Again for all we know they have been talking with all the devs that got their hands on a Deck for testing, maybe they have already asked them to do this. Again till the software embargo is over I doubt we will find out. And once it is over if we still don't know, then would be your time to see if any of the tech reviewers can look into that for you. Most will do it if they see a question like this, which is important for many because of how limited the space is.

I do hope though in a future version of the deck, even if its more expensive and the deck is a bit thicker that an easily replaceable full size m.2 drive is included.

You can download through the steam store Deus Ex Revision if you own the original Deus Ex - a complete fan made remaster of the game or Chronicles of Mytarna - a Gothic 2 total conversion, again if you own the original. You can download Nehrim or Enderal or a whole bunch of other i'm sure exist, seperately installed total conversions or remasters of games. would it really require valve to mess about with the ip of 50,000 games they don't own to either do or encourage something similar for more games - but with the framing of making it reduced in size? Having these things install through steam make running the controller profiles much easier - something that adding shortcuts for games installed outside steam doesn't support well. I guess I was wondering what steam itself could do without dev support, because a dev might not want to make a game deck friendly or go back to a project long moved on from for whatever reasons - and fostering this sort of environment and integrating it with steam would certainly be something.

[Start_Running]

It all boils down to money and the fact its more likely Valve will just add drive capacity to the deck, as opposed to trying to gett dev/pubs to more or less demake ttheir games. Or you know you could just uninstall the crap you're not playing. I mean a devoed 512 gb can hold a lo of games.and and when you factor swapple microSDs, and external HDDs;..storage is going to be only as much of a problem that you make it for yourself.

If iyou choose to make it an issue, you can choose buy a microsd or external HDD and your problem will be solved.

[Count_Dandyman]

This is all something Devs have the option to do after all Shadow of War made its high resolution textures and 4k cutscenes free DLC, Borderlands has done it for textures and Kingdom Come: Deliverance does it with textures and audio (split into three separate ones by language for voice) so users have the choice to install them or not.

The issue is most the time they don't think its worth the time and effort to do that and no amount of suggestions to Valve will change that you need to be going directly to the Devs themselves and convincing them its worth the extra work to do it.

[Gwarsbane]

Postat inițial de SHIELDBRO K™:

You can download through the steam store Deus Ex Revision if you own the original Deus Ex - a complete fan made remaster of the game or Chronicles of Mytarna - a Gothic 2 total conversion, again if you own the original. You can download Nehrim or Enderal or a whole bunch of other i'm sure exist, seperately installed total conversions or remasters of games. would it really require valve to mess about with the ip of 50,000 games they don't own to either do or encourage something similar for more games - but with the framing of making it reduced in size? Having these things install through steam make running the controller profiles much easier - something that adding shortcuts for games installed outside steam doesn't support well. I guess I was wondering what steam itself could do without dev support, because a dev might not want to make a game deck friendly or go back to a project long moved on from for whatever reasons - and fostering this sort of environment and integrating it with steam would certainly be something.

And your point about that? It was made by FANS and its FREE. The IP owners of the original game allow FANS to make FREE stuff for their game.

Valve is not a fan they are a company that is here to make money. A company that is making money will not do anything like you want when it deals with the IP from another company, and specially not 50,000 games worth of IPs.

Talk to a copyright lawyer, tell them what you think Valve should do with another companies IP and they will tell you exactly what we are telling you, that Valve won't touch that with a 100 foot pole.

Not only would it be illegal for them to do that, but they just don't have the man power it would take to create the literal millions of new textures and any money they would get from selling the Deck and any games would also be flushed down the drain because of would take a whole lot of time to do that. And this just assuming its just the textures. There are so many other things in games that could be taking up the large amount of space, which again Valve can't touch not just because of IP but also because they don't have the source code for the game.

And then you have the fact that not all games are designed to allow people to mod them as those games are that you pointed out. Some of them just happen to be mod friendly. Some of them are built that way, but many are not built to be mod friendly and some even go after people who try to mod their games for any reason.

They only thing Valve can do is send out a message to all the developers/publishers that they have contacts for, encouraging them to fix up their games so that they are smaller for the steam deck. Most of them will not bother because most of the games are long past being worked on and they do not have developers anymore. Many won't bother because its not worth their time and effort to do it. Some might if they see an uptick of games sold for the deck and a very rare few will jump on it saying sure.


There is literally nothing you can do here other than go to the games discussion area and ask the game developer to do this.

[Satoru]

no developer is going to make some kind of 'low disk space' version fo the game because functionally its pointless. It requires too much work, likely would not acctually make things much 'smaller' anyway, and would then require more QA work to actually ensure that something doesn't break

the steamdeck already has an sd slot for expansion. you're free to expand your storage to fit your games that way. Early tests have shown that using a class 10 SD card basically rivals the on-board SSD anyway. Class 10 SD cards are basically cheap.

Again why would devs make a specific 'low install space' build when users can easily upgrade their steamdeck storage for basically nothing and have similar performance to the onboard SSD.

https://www.amazon.com/class-10-sd-card/s?k=class+10+sd+card

Just buy an SD card on amazon. Problem solved. Buy muliple cards and you can hot swap them out to play games. Like this isnt that hard

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Compressed games used to be way more prevalent because they needed to be more compressed to fit on game cartridges. I don't think they're getting more popular, other than in indie game jams. If anything, looking at decades of trends, we've seen data compression get less popular, with a combination of players demanding crazy-high-res graphics and game developers just semi-irresponsibly using disk space willy-nilly with the assumption that people will definitely have space for things.

Games ballooned from a few megs to a few hundred megs to a few gigs to ten gigs and now even 60-gig games are common. It's insane.

There are some companies that are better at this though. Like, last I checked, Blizzard offers to let you play Heroes of the Storm even before the high-res textures have been downloaded. Clearly, they're not needed to enjoy the game, unless you really want high-res textures. Making it possible to optionally just leave that stuff out would really help.

Also, a lot of indie projects are smaller. Some may be because they're smaller games, but others are because of their choice of graphics -- pixel graphics tend to be way smaller than 3D polygon textures, for example, even when uncompressed.

That said, I don't think data compression is really a concern for game devs anymore, and that's arguably both good and bad. (OTOH, amusingly, I've heard about pirate sites doing stuff to compress games.)