Every Game should have a demo It helps to sell games.

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Every game on steam that I have tried that had a demo I ended up buying and enjoying.

For me demos leads to sales.

The 2 hour refund is NOT intended to be used as a demo system and you WILL get a warning from Steam if you try and use that feature.

Also it takes 24 hours to return funds to steam-and up to 7 days back to your creditcard.

I have purchased many games over the past decade, about 15% now abandoned and about 15% I just utterly hate.

But of all the games I enjoy, about 25 to 35% of them had demos. And about 15 or 20% of the ones I like alot did not.

Some times, a trailer doesnt do the game justice.


Now I know some games only have 2 hours worth of gameplay so a demo wouldnt be fair to them normally.

The demo doesnt have to be long. It can be a 10 minute demo.

Demos allow gamers to see how it looks and runs on their own systems, if the game matches what they want.


I know this will never happen but it should. I mean hell, they dont even need to make a demo.

All games on steam, 10 to 15 minute trial.

That is more than enough to see if it works on your Ultra wide 21:9 displays

More than enough time to see if you an get 60 or more fps in 4k max settings.

The idea of the demo isnt really to decide if the game is fun for you, its to see if the game runs well, looks well, and I am sure if it does, the fun factor will follow in.


Reason most people refund steam is due to performance issues.

Anyway, just my Friday night rant and thinking.

Go ahead, tear it down people, tell me why this wont work :D

Enjoy the weekend everybody!

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Publicado originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Publicado originalmente por Man Cave Mike:

Yeah, that is actually a great suggestion. Like a Demo section, a part of steam that only shows demos. That would be a great function to have.

hm... https://store.steampowered.com/search/?category1=10

https://store.steampowered.com/demos/

:winterbunny2023:

Thanks, I never actually saw the demo option before.

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Publicado originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Publicado originalmente por Man Cave Mike:

Yeah, that is actually a great suggestion. Like a Demo section, a part of steam that only shows demos. That would be a great function to have.

hm... https://store.steampowered.com/search/?category1=10

https://store.steampowered.com/demos/

:winterbunny2023:

Marking your answer best so when I come back later I can find that link LOLOL Thanks again.

[mldb88]

Publicado originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Publicado originalmente por Man Cave Mike:

Yeah, that is actually a great suggestion. Like a Demo section, a part of steam that only shows demos. That would be a great function to have.

hm... https://store.steampowered.com/search/?category1=10

https://store.steampowered.com/demos/

:winterbunny2023:

Think they mean something more obvious at a glance on the full title’s listing that there is a demo in case it’s listed in a seasonal sale or something rather than specifically searching out demos, lol though apparently not… still wouldn’t be a bad idea to have a secondary indicator on the banner of the main game’s listing or link to the demo page on the sidebar of the store page where it lists game details like player count, steam deck compatibility etc

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por Reuben:

Publicado originalmente por mldb88:

Yes and we’ve shown how those simply don’t work the way you think they do, or at least in a way that’s “easy” to make. Yet your only response is that we apparently can’t read. Great argument there buddy

You haven't shown anything.

Make a scene in your preferred engine and show off the mechanics of the game if it's a sandbox, if it's story-driven then package another branch of your game with a level that shows off your game the most.

The game will speak for itself if it's any good (the player is intrigued by the mechanics and/or story). It's disingenuous if you present the game any other way than it actually is.

That is a HORRIBLE idea. Showing a random chunk of your story out of sequence is going to confuse and spoil things for people. The story either won't make sense, or it will ruin other parts of the storywith potential spoilers up the wazoo. For a sandbox as already demonstrated its all about balance and easing them in without overwhelming them. Its not easy to just cut out a part, especially as the games usually TEACH you when you aquire abilities how to use them, so you'd also have to build an entirely new tutorial system, and still overwhelm someone with 50 hours of abilities they normally build up to, all thrown at them at once.

Of course your even assuming games have levels, many games are open ended and you can't just easily cut out a "level" like you could in the past.

Publicado originalmente por mldb88:

Try rereading that again, and maybe this time not just handwaving away the points just because you can’t be assed to come up with an actual counterpoint rather than just repeating the same thing again that, once again, was explained as to why it doesn’t work the way you think it does.

FYI think you quoted me by accident there instead of Reuben

[mldb88]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por Reuben:

You haven't shown anything.

Make a scene in your preferred engine and show off the mechanics of the game if it's a sandbox, if it's story-driven then package another branch of your game with a level that shows off your game the most.

The game will speak for itself if it's any good (the player is intrigued by the mechanics and/or story). It's disingenuous if you present the game any other way than it actually is.

That is a HORRIBLE idea. Showing a random chunk of your story out of sequence is going to confuse and spoil things for people. The story either won't make sense, or it will ruin other parts of the storywith potential spoilers up the wazoo. For a sandbox as already demonstrated its all about balance and easing them in without overwhelming them. Its not easy to just cut out a part, especially as the games usually TEACH you when you aquire abilities how to use them, so you'd also have to build an entirely new tutorial system, and still overwhelm someone with 50 hours of abilities they normally build up to, all thrown at them at once.

Of course your even assuming games have levels, many games are open ended and you can't just easily cut out a "level" like you could in the past.

Publicado originalmente por mldb88:

Try rereading that again, and maybe this time not just handwaving away the points just because you can’t be assed to come up with an actual counterpoint rather than just repeating the same thing again that, once again, was explained as to why it doesn’t work the way you think it does.

FYI think you quoted me by accident there instead of Reuben

Lol quoted both, just quoted your post for quick reference for what he should reread because you put it pretty well as to what and why his idea just flat out doesn’t work.

[76561198407601200]

Even with time gates, the person would have to download the full game to play only x amount of time. This is wasted bandwidth on both ends for only a potential full purchase.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por Man Cave Mike:

Publicado originalmente por potato:

this isn't up to valve/steam

It could be, if they wanted it to be, They could easily time gate a 15 minute lock or a 10 minute lock. But yeah, I understand what you are saying.

How?

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Publicado originalmente por Man Cave Mike:

It could be, if they wanted it to be, They could easily time gate a 15 minute lock or a 10 minute lock. But yeah, I understand what you are saying.

How?

They could do it pretty easily because it's already done.

https://kotaku.com/valve-steam-demo-timed-refund-pc-purchase-ea-dead-space-1850443748

And again, Valve isn't giving away games without the consent of the game's developer. If you want that, I hear Tim Sweeney is trying something along those lines.

[Reuben]

Publicado originalmente por mldb88:

Publicado originalmente por Reuben:

You haven't shown anything.

Make a scene in your preferred engine and show off the mechanics of the game if it's a sandbox, if it's story-driven then package another branch of your game with a level that shows off your game the most.

The game will speak for itself if it's any good (the player is intrigued by the mechanics and/or story). It's disingenuous if you present the game any other way than it actually is.

And again it’s been explained why that doesn’t work. You just insisting it hard enough doesn’t magically make it fact.

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

He did read it, its not that easy to do what you claim while accurately capturing the feel of the game. For instance games often unlock powers, abilities, etc as you progress, this gives the user time to adjust and become familiar with using their powers before adding new ones to the mix.

If your demo is a sandbox with all the powers unlocked from the getgo, its overwhelming and can actually drive people off, if its just the first level then it can feel underwhelming to people who don't realize that.

Striking the balance is quite difficult and for many games its not that easy.

For a story rich game its even harder as you can't just dump them into the middle of the story as you can spoil elements or confuse people. Nor would making a sandbox help sell the story.

Try rereading that again, and maybe this time not just handwaving away the points just because you can’t be assed to come up with an actual counterpoint rather than just repeating the same thing again that, once again, was explained as to why it doesn’t work the way you think it does.

You didn't explain it.

"It's hard and you don't know why", I've compiled UE and messed around with it myself, it's not hard to make a seperate scene for your demo needs and package it.

Pick a level that shows the game at it's fullest or make another level that shows your mechanics. People don't need to be gradually introduced mechanics for a demo, do that in the full game.

Why do all game developers act entitled, I don't complain doing full stack projects solo.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

How?

They could do it pretty easily because it's already done.

https://kotaku.com/valve-steam-demo-timed-refund-pc-purchase-ea-dead-space-1850443748

And again, Valve isn't giving away games without the consent of the game's developer. If you want that, I hear Tim Sweeney is trying something along those lines.

That methiod doesn't work for all games. In fact it only works for a a small subset of games.
There's a reason devs generally prefer to craft demos specifically, or create standalone prologues.

[mldb88]

Publicado originalmente por Reuben:

Publicado originalmente por mldb88:

And again it’s been explained why that doesn’t work. You just insisting it hard enough doesn’t magically make it fact.





Try rereading that again, and maybe this time not just handwaving away the points just because you can’t be assed to come up with an actual counterpoint rather than just repeating the same thing again that, once again, was explained as to why it doesn’t work the way you think it does.

You didn't explain it.

"It's hard and you don't know why", I've compiled UE and messed around with it myself, it's not hard to make a seperate scene for your demo needs and package it.

Pick a level that shows the game at it's fullest or make another level that shows your mechanics. People don't need to be gradually introduced mechanics for a demo, do that in the full game.

Why do all game developers act entitled, I don't complain doing full stack projects solo.

Ah so messing around with UE means you know all about game design, marketing, how to plan and structure and craft a demo that'll actually make people want to play the game and build interest? I guess that makes you the expert here huh? And yea, again, you're not actually addressing the points. Just saying "export some scenes and your good". That's how you make a confusing and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ demo that doesn't actually catch player's attention or overwhelms them with too many mechanics, plot points that don't make sense because it's missing contextual information from earlier in the game's story, etc.

Not my fault you have literally no clue what you're talking about, and refuse to actually discuss the points presented instead of just repeating "It'S NoT ThAt HaRD" and repeating how not to make a successful demo tips 101.

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Publicado originalmente por Man Cave Mike:

It could be, if they wanted it to be, They could easily time gate a 15 minute lock or a 10 minute lock. But yeah, I understand what you are saying.

How?

There was a demo once, I forgot the name of the game, like 10 something years ago, you could play it for 30 minutes and then the game would stop you from going any further. Made you buy.

Factorio does it similarly.

Gives you just enough of the demo that stops right as you get hooked, and forces you to buy to go any further.


This may not work for all games. I never played Minecraft, but I saw they do very similar. You got like 1 hour to play anyway you want, then you gotta buy it. Minecraft from what I can tell(i never got into it cause looked like it was for kids) is very popular to this day.

I think demos would work more than not, but that is just my 2 cents nobody asked for :)

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

They could do it pretty easily because it's already done.

https://kotaku.com/valve-steam-demo-timed-refund-pc-purchase-ea-dead-space-1850443748

And again, Valve isn't giving away games without the consent of the game's developer. If you want that, I hear Tim Sweeney is trying something along those lines.

That methiod doesn't work for all games. In fact it only works for a a small subset of games.
There's a reason devs generally prefer to craft demos specifically, or create standalone prologues.

Exactly. I'd even go so far as to say that a time-limited demo for a story-based game like Dead Space is ridiculous because all it does is encourage people to tear through the story as fast as they can, which will basically ruin the actual game for them if they ever decide to buy it afterwards.

As for demos that I would describe as very good, check out the Stanley Parable demo. It's not a portion of the game. Rather, it's a completely free standalone game that is a parody of video game demos (just as the game it's a demo for is a parody of video games).

They didn't make that by clicking some magical export button. All the stuff in that demo was made specifically for that demo. All the voiceovers, textures, models, etc. took some skilled person actual time to create.

If the suggestion is to just rip out a portion of an existing game, like the Half-Life 2 demo, that doesn't come for free either. Not only does that just flat out not work for a huge number of game genres, but there are seventeen different places in the engine that have special cases for the Half-Life 2 demo specifically. It's not trivial to pull a section of a game into a standalone demo, especially not if the game wasn't designed to have a demo in the first place.