Add a 50/50 button to review instead of yes and no

[Menphues]

Hey Steam,

After playing many games and some being great, there are some examples of games where you want to recommend because the core game is fun but then the payment model or some other things about it, you just cannot meaning you are stuck in a fence in 50/50.

You cannot give it a yes you recommend because then it’s positively promoting the game, you cannot give it a no because then it’s negatively impacting the scores as well.

So what about a middle ground? 50/50 so that way you are yes and no situation.

Example: Ubisoft trackmania right. The store page has a lot of incorrect info stating track editor, new campaigns, compete with friends but that is all locked behind the purchase ingame which the store page misleads into saying, but the game itself as a free model is a demo basically, until you pay money for it. Which 50% of the game with the game itself is fun but the rest no, I would not recommend at all.

I think a yes and no current model doesn’t paint a proper picture because it’s not a simple black and white situation for games these days.

Thank you for taking the time to read this :)

[Tanoomba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

It wasn't a rhetorical question.

I've already answered it:
Yes!
It's because in schools, individual accuracy is super important. Schools need to be able to accurately represent any individual student's strengths and weaknesses. Game reviews work in exactly the opposite way: They need to accurately represent what a whole lot of people think of any given game, and the best way to do that is by getting a whole lot of reviews with as few variables as possible.

[Crazy Tiger]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

Is ir? If a "bad" game is enjoyable, why wouldn't I recommend it? Similar to the opposite, why would I recommend a "good" game that I don't enjoy?

Stop creating narratives, Pierce

If you don't enjoy it, why would you consider it good? If you enjoy it, why would you consider it bad?

I'm sorry, but you're not making any sense here, Tiger. Maybe this will clear up things for you:

Is there any food that you think tastes bad but you like it?

A game with lots of bugs, errors (not just technical), crashes, bad writing and the like, for example The Saboteur. Bad game, for me highly enjoyable to play, certainly a recommend.
Half-Life is the opposite. Good game, for me boring and tedious to play, certainly not a recommend.

Again, we've been over this.

Your question doesn't fit what I'm saying. But you know that as well.

[AROCK!!!]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

I wouldn't play it since I don't play MP only games. So no rating to give or review to make.

But ultimately it would depend on the situation. If I mainly want to play MP with friends, I likely would recommend it. If I wouldn't have much friends to play it with, I likely wouldn't recommend it.

We've been down this road before, you already know this about me.

I see, so you wouldn't recommend the game to other people because you don't have friends to play with you? Makes perfect sense, thanks.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tanoomba:

You are your spokesperson. That's why I'm just going by what you said. "I read reviews to know what players think about the game" unambiguously means that a review's value, to you, comes from its content.


Why in the world would you think a review system would need to be "elected" to better suit its users? That is a wild non sequitur.


Have I been playing the game exclusively with friends? Then I recommend it, including that information. If I haven't, I don't recommend it, and mention that too.

Again: What would a rating scale change in this scenario?

Well, I'll keep things simple for you: I'm sorry but you're wasting your time trying to defend a binary system, it's a lost cause my friend. When people read a book, watch a movie, listen to a song or play a videogame, they don't divide such things into two categories only (i.e. recommended/not recommended). The majority of people will separate them into at least four categories, something along the lines of:

Terrible
Bad
Good
Excellent

this is completely true.


As it is now, I would have to go through numerous reviews to get some idea of whether it's a excellent game, or a good game, a mediocre game, etc, because a binary selection is one extreme or the other...a 0 or 10, 0% or 100%,1 star or 5 stars, and so on, and nothing in-between.

The problem with that is finding actual reviews among the BS people post for awards or likes, or whatever, and with the way Valve designed the system, it's a goat screw from the start.

[Start_Running]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

Nah m8, the only thing I proved is that I'm fine with answering a simple question, it doesn't hurt, you know. That doesn't mean that I separate games into two categories, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

To answer the question you litereally had to create two categories in your mind and assign games to those categories. Ergo my point is proven. Again. Read what you're saying, and think about it.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tanoomba:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

It wasn't a rhetorical question.

I've already answered it:
Yes!
It's because in schools, individual accuracy is super important. Schools need to be able to accurately represent any individual student's strengths and weaknesses.

Not to mention the metric for evaluation is standardized and iobjective. Show the same paper to 10 different examiners and and they'll all give it roughly the same marks.

You are never gioing to find an instance of One Examinar giving the student an F, another giving the same paper a Cm, and a third giving atn A+. Where there is an OBJECTIVE method of evaluation, numbers and degrees actually make sense.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tanoomba:

Game reviews work in exactly the opposite way:[/qiote]
Yup!
Game reviews are basically entirely subjective. Its all feels and opinions based on the reviewers personal experience. Which is why you can present the same game to 10 different revuiewers and get wildly different scores from them. In such a scenario the degrees mean nothing because there is no objective and consistent standard of evaluation.

Review systems are tools, and different tools excell in different scenarios.

[Pierce Dalton]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tanoomba:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

It wasn't a rhetorical question.

I've already answered it:
Yes!
It's because in schools, individual accuracy is super important. Schools need to be able to accurately represent any individual student's strengths and weaknesses. Game reviews work in exactly the opposite way: They need to accurately represent what a whole lot of people think of any given game, and the best way to do that is by getting a whole lot of reviews with as few variables as possible.

Game reviews work in the same way, they also should accurately represent the strengths and weaknesses of a game. That's exactly why some reviewers (both professional and amateur) have a grade for each aspect of the game, like graphics, sound design, etc.

Anyway, you're missing something a lot more important here: schools have a grade system to separate the good from the best, the mediocre from the completely inept and so on. That's the actual reason. That, of course, is impossible with a binary system and that's why such system is completely inaccurate.

[Pierce Dalton]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Start_Running:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

Nah m8, the only thing I proved is that I'm fine with answering a simple question, it doesn't hurt, you know. That doesn't mean that I separate games into two categories, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

To answer the question you litereally had to create two categories in your mind and assign games to those categories. Ergo my point is proven. Again. Read what you're saying, and think about it.

Which would never happen if I wasn't asked such question. Hmm that must mean something, do you know what it is?

[Pierce Dalton]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

If you don't enjoy it, why would you consider it good? If you enjoy it, why would you consider it bad?

I'm sorry, but you're not making any sense here, Tiger. Maybe this will clear up things for you:

Is there any food that you think tastes bad but you like it?

A game with lots of bugs, errors (not just technical), crashes, bad writing and the like, for example The Saboteur. Bad game, for me highly enjoyable to play, certainly a recommend.
Half-Life is the opposite. Good game, for me boring and tedious to play, certainly not a recommend.

Again, we've been over this.

Your question doesn't fit what I'm saying. But you know that as well.

You're getting things mixed up. Half-Life is "good" in the opinion of other people, the general opinion, not yours.

[Tanoomba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazed vet:

As it is now, I would have to go through numerous reviews to get some idea of whether it's a excellent game, or a good game, a mediocre game, etc, because a binary selection is one extreme or the other...a 0 or 10, 0% or 100%,1 star or 5 stars, and so on, and nothing in-between.

But this makes no sense. You can see without looking at a single review whether the player base thinks the game is excellent, good, mediocre, etc: Just look at the aggregate.

[Tanoomba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

Game reviews work in the same way, they also should accurately represent the strengths and weaknesses of a game.

They do! People have expressed all sorts of opinions in all sorts of ways using all kinds of rubrics and personal metrics. Any individual review's value comes from the content of the review, not whether the reviewer recommends the game or not. And because there are thousands of other people making that same choice, the accurate representation of how the game is seen by its player base is the aggregate.

And again: Having each review on a personal scale from 1-10 would lead to a LESS accurate aggregate, because people will absolutely rely heavily on 10s and 0s to try to have the biggest effect on the aggregate. Steam's aggregate works BECAUSE everyone's review has the same value.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

That's exactly why some reviewers (both professional and amateur) have a grade for each aspect of the game, like graphics, sound design, etc.

Yes, people can and do do that right now, in Steam reviews. Some people have a list of criteria they evaluate in every review they write. Some review games based on how accessible they are to children. Some only talk about technical performance. Some see the creative potential of reviews and write slam poetry. The review system allows everyone to express their opinion however they want to. If you want to give a game a 7/10, make that the first thing in your review. Anyone scrolling through reviews will see that you, personally, think the game is deserving of exactly a seven on ten.

The system is intentionally designed to be as accessible as possible so as to get the highest number of participants. It's easier to pick a thumbs-up or a thumbs-down than to pick which of eleven options best represents the ridiculously subjective and incredibly complex experience of playing a video game. Whatever would be gained in terms of individual review accuracy would not merit the loss in aggregate accuracy and decrease in participation.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

Anyway, you're missing something a lot more important here: schools have a grade system to separate the good from the best, the mediocre from the completely inept and so on. That's the actual reason. That, of course, is impossible with a binary system and that's why such system is completely inaccurate.

What do you mean, it's impossible? It's literally what the current system DOES. A game gets thousands of reviews, and that aggregate separates the good from the best, the mediocre from the completely inept, and so on.

[Start_Running]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Start_Running:

To answer the question you litereally had to create two categories in your mind and assign games to those categories. Ergo my point is proven. Again. Read what you're saying, and think about it.

Which would never happen if I wasn't asked such question. Hmm that must mean something, do you know what it is?

And? The fact is you brain does it. Whether you're conscious of it or not. You have a crieteria for sorting games between the two.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tanoomba:

I've already answered it:
Yes!
It's because in schools, individual accuracy is super important. Schools need to be able to accurately represent any individual student's strengths and weaknesses. Game reviews work in exactly the opposite way: They need to accurately represent what a whole lot of people think of any given game, and the best way to do that is by getting a whole lot of reviews with as few variables as possible.

Game reviews work in the same way, they also should accurately represent the strengths and weaknesses of a game. That's exactly why some reviewers (both professional and amateur) have a grade for each aspect of the game, like graphics, sound design, etc.

And there are just as many who don;'t and even among those who do they have different categories, and different eweightings on the categories. At the end of the day they are essentially aping what they've seen befrore. Pro reviewers working for sites or magazines are following the format and style guidde set down by their editors.


RThe thing is. Grading based on those this is rather pointless because unlike scenarios where such systems work...games ARE NOTHING BUT SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS. Two people can look at the same game and give it vastly different scores in the same category. This is kinda the clue that tells you such a method is not valid for the subject matter.

It's like using a hammer to drive in a screw. Sure you can do it. But doing it basically winds up diminishing the efficacy and usefulness of the screw.

[Pierce Dalton]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Start_Running:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

Which would never happen if I wasn't asked such question. Hmm that must mean something, do you know what it is?

And? The fact is you brain does it. Whether you're conscious of it or not. You have a crieteria for sorting games between the two.

As expected, I can see that you still don't understand the situation here, but hopefully this will clear up things for you: Just because you're answering a binary question, that doesn't mean only two groups exist for you.

You know when a friend asks if you would date a certain girl? Usually, people reply with a yes or no to that question, right? But that doesn't mean they separate women into two groups.

And the subjective/objective debate is futile, the quality of hotels is subjective as well, some people may like a particular hotel and others hate it. Nonetheless, you know what system is used to rate hotels.

[Pierce Dalton]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tanoomba:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

Anyway, you're missing something a lot more important here: schools have a grade system to separate the good from the best, the mediocre from the completely inept and so on. That's the actual reason. That, of course, is impossible with a binary system and that's why such system is completely inaccurate.

What do you mean, it's impossible? It's literally what the current system DOES. A game gets thousands of reviews, and that aggregate separates the good from the best, the mediocre from the completely inept, and so on.

No, it doesn't. The only thing the aggregate does is indicating the amount of people that liked the game, nothing else. The degree of quality doesn't exist.

[Tanoomba]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

No, it doesn't. The only thing the aggregate does is indicating the amount of people that liked the game, nothing else.

By and large, the more people like a game, the better quality it is. Or do you disagree that good games get good reviews?

[Pierce Dalton]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tanoomba:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Pierce Dalton:

No, it doesn't. The only thing the aggregate does is indicating the amount of people that liked the game, nothing else.

By and large, the more people like a game, the better quality it is. Or do you disagree that good games get good reviews?

No, you're getting things mixed up. The more an individual likes a game, the better quality the game has (in the opinion of that individual, naturally).

If a game has overwhelmingly positive reviews, that only means that the majority of people that played it liked it. But to which extent each individual liked the game?

[76561199559798421]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tanoomba:

By and large, the more people like a game, the better quality it is. Or do you disagree that good games get good reviews?

that is exactly the fake review problem, the games trash the fake reviews pretend the games good until the person buys it and is utterly disappointed.

from what i seen lately there are a handful of extremely poor low graphic, bad content games that have 100k reviews, and more so broken and under developed games such as csgo 2 that have the most reviews on steam, 6.5 million reviews lasted i look and over all csgo 2 is nothing but a cheat filled bot farm.


i think reviews have nothing to do with quality of a game, its simply a agenda now pushed by steam, there are plenty of really good games that get negative reviews because of steams vicious attacks , it could be another developer paying steam to attack the other product. it could be steam attacking the product simply because they don't want to pay steam the extra money to market it and leave them good reviews.

thats the gimmick most people aren't aware of, steam sells positive reviews, and if you don't jump on steams pay for positive review system they will spam your game with negative reviews.