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[Mutex]

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[BJWyler]

Messaggio originale di Nani:

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

I think it's pretty simple.

People already can delete their own posts, so they just should be able to do so in locked threads as well.

The main intent behind locking threads, to not allow new posts (to stop heated discussions, to prevent necroing) is retained and the consistency of users being able to delete their own posts anytime is also retained. A win-win situation.

I don't even know why people get in here to argue against it. It doesn't affect you. It's as if some people never used Reddit before.

The only reason anyone would be against it is if they want to stalk or violate the privacy or safety of individuals.

Ahh, and here comes the logical fallacy.

Equally, I could say the only reason anyone would be for it is if they are a bad actor and want to hide their nefarious statements.

At the end of the day, locked threads are just that. Locked and frozen in that moment of time to maintain the context of that moment for good or bad. For the majority of the time, we posters have a fair bit of autonomy over the posts we make on a platform we do not own. Only in a couple of uncommon instances may we lose that autonomy, moderated threads and banning. Not a big deal.

If one wants complete autonomy over their communication preferences, there are public platforms for that other than a discussion forum setting. If someone wants to stalk, they don't need locked threads to do it. The vast majority of threads one can post in are not locked, and those posts are just as public as any other. If one is being stalked, then report the abuser. If one feels the need to delete every post one has ever made, then why bother posting in an open public discussion to begin with?

[KalGimpa]

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

Messaggio originale di KalCuey:

you are the one that needs a more compelling reason than that

seeing as how you are the one that wants it changed

I don't. But I gave a reason. Consistency. People already can delete their posts. Make it consistent.

or

we can go the way i said and make them all perm

there is your consistency

my way actually preserves the conversation while yours c/would break it

now that i have given a more in depth reason as to why it should not be changed

it is your turn

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

Messaggio originale di KalCuey:

you are the one that needs a more compelling reason than that

seeing as how you are the one that wants it changed

I don't. But I gave a reason. Consistency. People already can delete their posts. Make it consistent.

That is definitely consistent that you can't delete posts in locked threads. Locked threads cannot be posted in, edited, awarded etc; meaning there are no privileges in the thread, thus, no privileges in the thread means no ability to delete ones own posts. That's extremely consistent with privileges vs lack of privileges.

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

Messaggio originale di BJWyler:

Equally, I could say the only reason anyone would be for it is if they are a bad actor and want to hide their nefarious statements.

You could. But that's not an argument against the request. Just an observation of it's effect.

As Nani said, the request doesn't affect you as long as you're not a stalker or interested in harassing people. But the fact that you're here still arguing against it makes it look like you are interested in these things. So what is it?

Interestingly those that have in the past requested privileges in non-privileged areas or to have moderator-like abilities have usually wanted to hide their bad actions from other members of the public, often abusing the feature to the point of receiving warnings or worse. One specific user kept asking for this as well and they only show up to bear-poke moderation and users without ever actually having good-faith discussions, showing that they do not intend to utilize the forums in good faith - and they called anyone & everyone disagreeing with them as "harassment" which was a bad faith deflection from their terrible ideas. So no, users with no privileges wont be granted privileges, only moderators and higher have privileges to do anything to content in locked threads or to post within locked threads. That is practically universal for almost all forums on the internet.

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

So no, users with no privileges wont be granted privileges, only moderators and higher have privileges to do anything to content in locked threads or to post within locked threads. That is practically universal for almost all forums on the internet.

You clearly haven't used the internet. WhatsApp, Telegram, Reddit and others, all allow you to delete your posts.

Also, why is your profile set to private? Maybe we should vote to make everyone's profile public. That's a privilege you clearly shouldn't have according to your logic.

Notice this part?:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

That is practically universal for almost all forums on the internet.

Almost all forums if not all forums do not allow users to do anything to content that is in a locked thread.

This isn't terrible places like reddit or whatsapp, this is a forum tied to a store.

Also my profile isn't "Private", it's "Friends Only", you weren't going to find anything relevant to this discussion from my profile. It's a preference, and Valve gives us the option to be Public, Friends-Only or Private at our own wills for our own personal spaces. Public threads are public spaces and each user class has their own privileges or lack of privileges, profile privacy preference is entirely irrelevant to the thread.

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Nani:

Messaggio originale di BJWyler:

Equally, I could say the only reason anyone would be for it is if they are a bad actor and want to hide their nefarious statements.

So what if they do? They aren't trying to doxx people, harrass them and their posts can still be deleted and accounts banned. We already know the forums are full of alts that do this anyway. The fact you can't protect your privacy is also a reason people need alts. Look at this forum, people are making threads about needing alts to post here because it isn't safe.

Actually those that fall in the bad-actor list have tried to doxx people before, there's even a recent report of that. Those types also usually tend to derail almost every thread they're in, to looping arguments that have literally nothing to do with the thread itself, and usually have multiple game hub bans to demonstrate that multiple hubs realize an individual is a problem to keep around.

Those with alts have also typically usually stated of things support is entirely aware of and has marked accounts for; stated ill-intentions & stated abuse of alts to cause disruption of the forums; to troll, not to actually have any legitimate discussions.

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Nani:

A lot of people delete their posts anyway because they know they won't be able to if the thread is locked so they do it in advance. Thread locks encourage people to delete 'useful information'.

Almost no one does that unless they're posting in bad faith or are posting rule-violating content and don't want to be banned for someone reporting it for justifiable reasons to ban someone.

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Nani:

I was lurking on these forums for a long time before I started posting and I have seen many users who delete their perfectly fine and useful posts after 24 hours or so. I can only assume it is because they are concerned for their privacy and safety from other users.

Unless they're posting their own personal identifiable information there is zero reason privacy & safety would have anything to do with the posts.

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Nani:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Unless they're posting their own personal identifiable information there is zero reason privacy & safety would have anything to do with the posts.

What about stalkers, harassers and online bullies? They should just set their accounts private and pretend to be dead? Or the more logical alternative, use an alt.

People that actually do those things tend to get community bans and even permanent community bans, use of alts to still do such things can result in the termination of the account(s) even if there are product licenses on them, which wouldn't be the first time they have done so for people acting poorly overall on Steam.
People are overall recommended to at the minimum, use Friends-Only which is a good protection against bots & scammers on hijacked accounts looking for gullible users with expensive inventories.

Thus, still no reason to allow deleting any post anywhere at any time especially in locked threads.

Do note that mods, support & employees can see accounts using the same connection. It is strongly recommended to not ever use an alt for community interactions. Such should be for playing games only.

[Tito Shivan]

Messaggio originale di Nani:

A lot of people delete their posts anyway because they know they won't be able to if the thread is locked so they do it in advance.

Very, very few people actually do that. Really.

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Unless they're posting their own personal identifiable information there is zero reason privacy & safety would have anything to do with the posts.

Well, I'm going to delete all my posts when I'm done with this thread. That's for sure. For me it's like hanging up the phone. I don't need a larger internet footprint than I'm already forced to.

By the way, I'm only here because steam support asked me to. They gave me the link to this forum to put the request out so the developers may see it. That's because deleting several posts isn't easy for them either.

Support incorrectly tells people to post here instead of being far more blunt of "This is not Account, Billing or Steam Hardware related so we can't support you on this matter". It's their way of politely getting rid of people so they don't reply & can close (lock) the ticket, so they can move onto helping people contacting them for reasons they can assist them with.

I very much doubt steam devs would ever be willing to give any sort of partial-moderation privilege to users of deleting content in locked threads, they already know that goes really poorly.

[HikariLight]

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Unless they're posting their own personal identifiable information there is zero reason privacy & safety would have anything to do with the posts.

Well, I'm going to delete all my posts when I'm done with this thread. That's for sure. For me it's like hanging up the phone. I don't need a larger internet footprint than I'm already forced to.

By the way, I'm only here because steam support asked me to. They gave me the link to this forum to put the request out so the developers may see it. That's because deleting several posts isn't easy for them either.

If you don't want a bigger footprint, then don't post to begin with.

[BJWyler]

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

Messaggio originale di BJWyler:

Equally, I could say the only reason anyone would be for it is if they are a bad actor and want to hide their nefarious statements.

You could. But that's not an argument against the request. Just an observation of it's effect.

As Nani said, the request doesn't affect you as long as you're not a stalker or interested in harassing people. But the fact that you're here still arguing against it makes it look like you are interested in these things. So what is it?

You are forgetting the other possibilities that have been mentioned: context of the conversation and informational purposes.

Again, I have no interest in someone's posting history, however there have been a couple of occasions where someone had posted a link or a piece of interesting data that I wanted to refer back to, and the only way to do so was to find it in their post history.

It's all well and good to say that we can simply repost the information that is lost when someone deletes their post, but that's not possible after the fact. That is information is already lost.

[Volfogg]

Some people say that 'if you have nothing nice to tell, don't tell anything.' Now I'm not sure about whether this does apply, especially if someone has very twisted sense of 'nice' and 'mean'...

[BJWyler]

Messaggio originale di Nani:

A lot of people delete their posts anyway because they know they won't be able to if the thread is locked so they do it in advance. Thread locks encourage people to delete 'useful information'.

Not really, The biggest chunk of people who delete their posts are the bad actors. Usually to try to avoid being reported to moderation. The vast majority of the normal users on a forum don't even give locked threads a second thought. I personally never spoke with any forum poster who deleted posts because "the thread might be locked."

Messaggio originale di Nani:

I was lurking on these forums for a long time before I started posting and I have seen many users who delete their perfectly fine and useful posts after 24 hours or so. I can only assume it is because they are concerned for their privacy and safety from other users.

I recall an old axiom about assumptions.

At any rate, welcome to the great wide public world. There is no expectation of privacy when you are out in public in a public space. Why should an online public space be any different? Having a discussion with a group of people on this forum is no different than having a discussion with a group of people in a public park. Think before you speak in the park. Think before you post on a forum.

Messaggio originale di Nani:

I'm not just talking about 1 or 2 posts, but all of them, except locked threads.

And again, that is just an outlier, and in my experience, most of them that do are the ones who are simply trolling and griefing the forums for their own amusement.

Messaggio originale di Nani:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Unless they're posting their own personal identifiable information there is zero reason privacy & safety would have anything to do with the posts.

What about stalkers, harassers and online bullies? They should just set their accounts private and pretend to be dead? Or the more logical alternative, use an alt.

There are outlets for dealing with online stalkers and harassers just like there are in the real world. The actual logical thing to do is to make a private profile or share it only with a group of trusted individuals. But when one does things in a public setting, just like in that public park, expect the passing by public to take notice - for good or ill.

Messaggio originale di Mutex:

Well, I'm going to delete all my posts when I'm done with this thread. That's for sure. For me it's like hanging up the phone. I don't need a larger internet footprint than I'm already forced to.

Which, of course, is your prerogative in the context of what this forum allows. But no one is forced to make a post in a public forum. As I said before, there are plenty of other options available to people who want more control of their narrative and privacy.

Messaggio originale di Nani:

Messaggio originale di Tito Shivan:

Very, very few people actually do that. Really.

The ones that do have a good reason to do it, unlike the people who want to stop them.

Yup, like I said, the bad actors certainly do. And there are very good reasons not to let them do it in certain circumstances.