Gaslighting should be against the rules.

[76561197963519852]

If you can't have a conversation with someone who has a different opinion than you without resorting to tactics that call into question a users "sanity" then the conversation loses it's entire focus.

If you can't talk to someone with calling them delusional, insane, braindead, etc then you're just insulting the other person and no actual dialogue ensues.

Thanks.

[Volfogg]

It's really hard not to question someone's sanity with so many people spending so much time here only to complain about completely trivial matters. Where did playing video games go? This really can make someone lose remaining hope in humanity and start taking dim view of it.

[76561197963519852]

Volfogg a écrit :

It's really hard not to question someone's sanity with so many people spending so much time here only to complain about completely trivial matters. Where did playing video games go? This really can make someone lose remaining hope in humanity and start taking dim view of it.

Honestly, online gaming being in the current state it's in, isn't trivial.

You know what I spent my first paychecks on? Building a Pentium 4 rig.

Gaming has been a passion of mine for a long time and interacting with passionate gamers, a secondary hobby of that.

I love gaming but I don't see a way forward without some acknowledgements from not the just the community, but the developers as well, that we're currently stuck up against some problems that aren't improving the overall experience.

It seems the longer the community feels ignored, the worse the issues seem to become.

[H4CK3R MAN]

redacted a écrit :

H4CK3R MAN a écrit :

Being concerned about cheaters is fine. however accusing everybody of cheating or using bought accounts when you're the lowest skill level you can be in a game is something else

Fair enough. Although, you played side by side with cheaters for how many matches and never suspected a thing, right?

So perhaps there's a difference of perception, which again, can't be ruled out as right or wrong.

This falls back to: "perception is reality."

I think if I hadn't been exposed to match tracking sites and seen the scale of the problem quantified, I'd never have a reason to accuse anyone. Simply stated, I had no idea what a bought account or a cheater was until I started researching it.

However, once I did research, it became a lot more difficult to ignore what I consider red flags.

So for you, playing with people who cheated along side you, wasn't a big deal as you had no reason to suspect them and why would you. These were *your friends* snd not some randoms.

But that's kind of the heart of the issue. People are willing to lie to their own friends about their bad behavior to save face. This is gas-light behavior BTW.

Besides just wasting others time in game, the longer standing issue is that it hurts the community trust when this happens.

I don't want to accuse anyone anymore than I want to not trust community. However, that's the conclusion I've come to. Right or wrong.

i've already told you many times. those who i have played a lot of games with didn't cheat at the time. they got banned long after i stopped talking to them

[The Commendatore]

redacted a écrit :

H4CK3R MAN a écrit :

i've already told you many times. those who i have played a lot of games with didn't cheat at the time. they got banned long after i stopped talking to them

Unfortunately, while I don't doubt you believe what you're typing, I don't believe that the 3 cheaters you repeatedly played with didn't cheat whilst you played with them.

My experiences leave me having doubt over anyone who has a VAC on their profile.

I don't trust people at their "word" as easily as you do.

I wouldn't trust your word whether someone's a cheater or a bought Steam account.

[MonkehMaster]

well, topic went for a change

[BJWyler]

William Shakesman a écrit :

Its the same sort of thing with people who think the police are corrupt or evil. If they just stopped committing crimes, their interactions with the police would be nothing but positive, but people don't ever want to try to fix their own behavior so there are endless conspiracy theories about mods and cops.

Quite right. Are there corrupt policemen? Absolutely, they do exist, and that is a problem. However, that doesn't mean that every cop you see is corrupt, even though you may find people who will try to convince you otherwise. The advent of the Internet has only made it worse, as it allows people of all sorts to give voice to whatever it is they want - be it truthful or not. The old adage of "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" is even more true today than it ever has been.

If someone starts going down those Internet rabbit holes looking for corruption, then eventually, that's all they will find and it unfortunately taints their perception of reality. Seriously, how else can one explain so many people believing in religious space lasers and baby eating cults? That's what an unregulated Internet will bring to you. Freedom has many advantages, but one cannot deny the drawbacks that come with it as well.

redacted a écrit :

Thanks for your reply.

I think I can sum up our disagreement.

I think cheating, or rather, the lack of competitive integrity in a game that revolves around a competitive mode, is the biggest problem in the game and for you, it's not the same priority level of an issue.

Nothing left to be said.

I don't think I am a "drama queen" for taking this position.

Cheating in competitive games is an issue. It always has been and it always will be. Hell, professional sports is still fighting that fight. So being concerned about cheating is all well and good, and you are not a drama queen for being concerned about it - but how you are doing it certainly makes you look like one.

Again, if you go searching for cheaters on the Internet, that's all you will eventually find, because there are people and places out there that are more than willing to oblige to the extreme, and its very easy to not realize that you've put the blinders on.

redacted a écrit :

This falls back to: "perception is reality."

Perception is only one reality. And your perception is only your reality. Actual reality rarely aligns with either.

[AROCK!!!]

MonkehMaster a écrit :

nah, there is plenty of gaslighting going on in these forums, as well as trolling, passive aggressiveness, rude behavior, insulting behavior and much much more, or worse.

majority of the people on the forums, all know this to be true, even if people try to deny it.

gaslighting

manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning.

is not something hard to distinguish from trolling and can be used in trolling.

there is a massive difference between trolling and gasslighting.

[76561197963519852]

Crazed vet a écrit :

MonkehMaster a écrit :

nah, there is plenty of gaslighting going on in these forums, as well as trolling, passive aggressiveness, rude behavior, insulting behavior and much much more, or worse.

majority of the people on the forums, all know this to be true, even if people try to deny it.



is not something hard to distinguish from trolling and can be used in trolling.

there is a massive difference between trolling and gasslighting......gaslighting is not happening here.

If just one person is using alts to astr-turf a thread, that's gas-lighting to me. They are trying to manipulate the perception of "how many people are in agreement" as a weapon against the person they're trying to gaslight.


Is it paranoid to think this way when I can't prove it? Yeah, but it helps me keep a healthy dose of skepticism when dealing with anyone on these forums.

[AROCK!!!]

redacted a écrit :

Crazed vet a écrit :

there is a massive difference between trolling and gasslighting......gaslighting is not happening here.

If just one person is using alts to astr-turf a thread, that's gas-lighting to me. They are trying to manipulate the perception of "how many people are in agreement" as a weapon against the person they're trying to gaslight.


Is it paranoid to think this way when I can't prove it? Yeah, but it helps me keep a healthy dose of skepticism when dealing with anyone on these forums.

thast is NOT gaslighting, that is basic trolling...nothing more.


Gaslighting is something that takes a lot of work from the one doing the lighting, and it is something that seriously effects the person it's being done to on a deep physiological level.

Simply getting someone to question themselves on a matter or two, which is the case in these forums, does not qualify as gaslighting. Now, if you can get someone to question their sanity or reality using psychological manipulation, then you have successfully gaslit that person.

[AROCK!!!]

People really need to better educate themselves, and STOP using such serious terms and actions in such a trivial manner

[BJWyler]

redacted a écrit :

Crazed vet a écrit :

there is a massive difference between trolling and gasslighting......gaslighting is not happening here.

If just one person is using alts to astr-turf a thread, that's gas-lighting to me. They are trying to manipulate the perception of "how many people are in agreement" as a weapon against the person they're trying to gaslight.


Is it paranoid to think this way when I can't prove it? Yeah, but it helps me keep a healthy dose of skepticism when dealing with anyone on these forums.

Paranoia is never healthy.

[76561197963519852]

BJWyler a écrit :

redacted a écrit :

If just one person is using alts to astr-turf a thread, that's gas-lighting to me. They are trying to manipulate the perception of "how many people are in agreement" as a weapon against the person they're trying to gaslight.


Is it paranoid to think this way when I can't prove it? Yeah, but it helps me keep a healthy dose of skepticism when dealing with anyone on these forums.

Paranoia is never healthy.

I mean, there's being paranoid and there's being a long time player of a game some refer to as "the most cheated game of all time"

I think the venn diagram would look like a perfect circle.

[Ray]

redacted a écrit :

H4CK3R MAN a écrit :

Being concerned about cheaters is fine. however accusing everybody of cheating or using bought accounts when you're the lowest skill level you can be in a game is something else

Fair enough. Although, you played side by side with cheaters for how many matches and never suspected a thing, right?

So perhaps there's a difference of perception, which again, can't be ruled out as right or wrong.

This falls back to: "perception is reality."

I think if I hadn't been exposed to match tracking sites and seen the scale of the problem quantified, I'd never have a reason to accuse anyone. Simply stated, I had no idea what a bought account or a cheater was until I started researching it.

However, once I did research, it became a lot more difficult to ignore what I consider red flags.

So for you, playing with people who cheated along side you, wasn't a big deal as you had no reason to suspect them and why would you. These were *your friends* snd not some randoms.

But that's kind of the heart of the issue. People are willing to lie to their own friends about their bad behavior to save face. This is gas-light behavior BTW.

Besides just wasting others time in game, the longer standing issue is that it hurts the community trust when this happens.

I don't want to accuse anyone anymore than I want to not trust community. However, that's the conclusion I've come to. Right or wrong.

As he said beeing concernedn about the cheating situation is not only your right to say but it makes sense since CS indeed has a cheating issue.

But as he said you call out way too fast that someone cheats or buys accounts.

I've took my time to read your reddit posts and you called out every single person for buying accounts or cheating without even blinking with your eye. You don't even know their accounts or anything else, just have read a sentence from them like "I only play CS so why should I buy other games?" and you straight claim they bought their accounts. This is the issue you don't understand and pointing this issue out leads to this thread. You call normal answers "gaslighting".

You not only called people out for cheating. When you saw my stats you full capslock insulted me the worst things possible. I've a screenshot of that. So when you know someone is a ex pro and has good stats you're surprised that said ex pro has good stats against non-pros? Logic?

This is your issue. You judge people way too fast and then do something you critisize in this thread. You don't want gaslighting, but you're the person gaslighting all the time.

Just a friendly reminder: None of my friends ever got banned for cheating in CS, out of all my 250~ friends I've made over the past 20 years on steam only one person has a vac ban and that ban was in call of duty modern warfare 2 15 years ago for a field of view changer (since the fov in this game was way too small and many used that).

At the same time you admitted on twitter that you used to cheat 15-20 years ago, you also asked cheater to share their cheats with you and you're on the subreddit csgohacks or how it's called daily. So your link to cheater is much closer than anyone else.

I'm a "white west". And my entire history is white. It's so white that even my entire environment including friends is white. I don't have any dark spot in my history which links to any sort of cheats, griefing bans or similar. Not only did I behave as good as possible I even stepped forward to be a role model by for example uploading all my demos in leagues like ESL where it wasn't necessary to upload demos. The enemy team could "force" two demos per match from the enemy. I did it all the time to be as transparent as possible.

And despite all this.

You insult me the worst things and call me a cheater for having very good stats in a casual environment like valve's matchmaking system where I clearly am overperforming because as someone who used to play professional my skill level is obviously higher than the ones of people playing matchmaking.

It makes all no sense and wouldn't make sense to you either if you'd just take a breath and think before writing.

This thread will lead to nothing. You'll keep creating threads on reddit and here with obvious false accusations and then every couple of months you create a thread like this one where you wonder why people aren't the most friendliest to you.

You can't handle facts. This is called cognitive dissonance:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2673588993

You want to reduce gaslighting and bad behaviour? Start with yourself.

[76561197963519852]

Ray a écrit :

redacted a écrit :

Fair enough. Although, you played side by side with cheaters for how many matches and never suspected a thing, right?

So perhaps there's a difference of perception, which again, can't be ruled out as right or wrong.

This falls back to: "perception is reality."

I think if I hadn't been exposed to match tracking sites and seen the scale of the problem quantified, I'd never have a reason to accuse anyone. Simply stated, I had no idea what a bought account or a cheater was until I started researching it.

However, once I did research, it became a lot more difficult to ignore what I consider red flags.

So for you, playing with people who cheated along side you, wasn't a big deal as you had no reason to suspect them and why would you. These were *your friends* snd not some randoms.

But that's kind of the heart of the issue. People are willing to lie to their own friends about their bad behavior to save face. This is gas-light behavior BTW.

Besides just wasting others time in game, the longer standing issue is that it hurts the community trust when this happens.

I don't want to accuse anyone anymore than I want to not trust community. However, that's the conclusion I've come to. Right or wrong.

As he said beeing concernedn about the cheating situation is not only your right to say but it makes sense since CS indeed has a cheating issue.

But as he said you call out way too fast that someone cheats or buys accounts.

I've took my time to read your reddit posts and you called out every single person for buying accounts or cheating without even blinking with your eye. You don't even know their accounts or anything else, just have read a sentence from them like "I only play CS so why should I buy other games?" and you straight claim they bought their accounts. This is the issue you don't understand and pointing this issue out leads to this thread. You call normal answers "gaslighting".

You not only called people out for cheating. When you saw my stats you full capslock insulted me the worst things possible. I've a screenshot of that. So when you know someone is a ex pro and has good stats you're surprised that said ex pro has good stats against non-pros? Logic?

This is your issue. You judge people way too fast and then do something you critisize in this thread. You don't want gaslighting, but you're the person gaslighting all the time.

Just a friendly reminder: None of my friends ever got banned for cheating in CS, out of all my 250~ friends I've made over the past 20 years on steam only one person has a vac ban and that ban was in call of duty modern warfare 2 15 years ago for a field of view changer (since the fov in this game was way too small and many used that).

At the same time you admitted on twitter that you used to cheat 15-20 years ago, you also asked cheater to share their cheats with you and you're on the subreddit csgohacks or how it's called daily. So your link to cheater is much closer than anyone else.

I'm a "white west". And my entire history is white. It's so white that even my entire environment including friends is white. I don't have any dark spot in my history which links to any sort of cheats, griefing bans or similar. Not only did I behave as good as possible I even stepped forward to be a role model by for example uploading all my demos in leagues like ESL where it wasn't necessary to upload demos. The enemy team could "force" two demos per match from the enemy. I did it all the time to be as transparent as possible.

And despite all this.

You insult me the worst things and call me a cheater for having very good stats in a casual environment like valve's matchmaking system where I clearly am overperforming because as someone who used to play professional my skill level is obviously higher than the ones of people playing matchmaking.

It makes all no sense and wouldn't make sense to you either if you'd just take a breath and think before writing.

This thread will lead to nothing. You'll keep creating threads on reddit and here with obvious false accusations and then every couple of months you create a thread like this one where you wonder why people aren't the most friendliest to you.

You can't handle facts. This is called cognitive dissonance:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2673588993

You want to reduce gaslighting and bad behaviour? Start with yourself.

Logic tells me that if I had cheats and I practiced with them to dial my config to appear as "legit" as possible to pass the 'eye-test' that I could beat the best players in the game with ease. I'd never have to worry about being surprised. I could take every battle with confidence because I already know where enemies are and whatever error I make in aiming can be corrected by a bot that fixes my aim to hit what I intend to shoot.

I mean, that's really what this is about for me. That people are able to do that while even having aimbots that lock through walls and "glitch" for a lack of a better term and STILL get away with their reputation in check.

You've seen the videos, no need to review them here. You come to the conclusion that these "glitch" behaviors from players are not cheats. I disagree.

To me, that's a very telling "take" as to how you see the game and how you "play." You can be the best soccer player in the world, if you tell me that you can pick up the ball and run with it, I don't have to be the best soccer player in the world to know that's cheating.

I think at the end of the day, no amount of evidence (VAC bans included) is enough to convince others that some people are closet cheaters. They will always have an excuse.

[H4CK3R MAN]

redacted a écrit :

Ray a écrit :

As he said beeing concernedn about the cheating situation is not only your right to say but it makes sense since CS indeed has a cheating issue.

But as he said you call out way too fast that someone cheats or buys accounts.

I've took my time to read your reddit posts and you called out every single person for buying accounts or cheating without even blinking with your eye. You don't even know their accounts or anything else, just have read a sentence from them like "I only play CS so why should I buy other games?" and you straight claim they bought their accounts. This is the issue you don't understand and pointing this issue out leads to this thread. You call normal answers "gaslighting".

You not only called people out for cheating. When you saw my stats you full capslock insulted me the worst things possible. I've a screenshot of that. So when you know someone is a ex pro and has good stats you're surprised that said ex pro has good stats against non-pros? Logic?

This is your issue. You judge people way too fast and then do something you critisize in this thread. You don't want gaslighting, but you're the person gaslighting all the time.

Just a friendly reminder: None of my friends ever got banned for cheating in CS, out of all my 250~ friends I've made over the past 20 years on steam only one person has a vac ban and that ban was in call of duty modern warfare 2 15 years ago for a field of view changer (since the fov in this game was way too small and many used that).

At the same time you admitted on twitter that you used to cheat 15-20 years ago, you also asked cheater to share their cheats with you and you're on the subreddit csgohacks or how it's called daily. So your link to cheater is much closer than anyone else.

I'm a "white west". And my entire history is white. It's so white that even my entire environment including friends is white. I don't have any dark spot in my history which links to any sort of cheats, griefing bans or similar. Not only did I behave as good as possible I even stepped forward to be a role model by for example uploading all my demos in leagues like ESL where it wasn't necessary to upload demos. The enemy team could "force" two demos per match from the enemy. I did it all the time to be as transparent as possible.

And despite all this.

You insult me the worst things and call me a cheater for having very good stats in a casual environment like valve's matchmaking system where I clearly am overperforming because as someone who used to play professional my skill level is obviously higher than the ones of people playing matchmaking.

It makes all no sense and wouldn't make sense to you either if you'd just take a breath and think before writing.

This thread will lead to nothing. You'll keep creating threads on reddit and here with obvious false accusations and then every couple of months you create a thread like this one where you wonder why people aren't the most friendliest to you.

You can't handle facts. This is called cognitive dissonance:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2673588993

You want to reduce gaslighting and bad behaviour? Start with yourself.

Logic tells me that if I had cheats and I practiced with them to dial my config to appear as "legit" as possible to pass the 'eye-test' that I could beat the best players in the game with ease. I'd never have to worry about being surprised. I could take every battle with confidence because I already know where enemies are and whatever error I make in aiming can be corrected by a bot that fixes my aim to hit what I intend to shoot.

I mean, that's really what this is about for me. That people are able to do that while even having aimbots that lock through walls and "glitch" for a lack of a better term and STILL get away with their reputation in check.

You've seen the videos, no need to review them here. You come to the conclusion that these "glitch" behaviors from players are not cheats. I disagree.

To me, that's a very telling "take" as to how you see the game and how you "play." You can be the best soccer player in the world, if you tell me that you can pick up the ball and run with it, I don't have to be the best soccer player in the world to know that's cheating.

I think at the end of the day, no amount of evidence (VAC bans included) is enough to convince others that some people are closet cheaters. They will always have an excuse.

I think both your mental health and experince would a hell of a lot better if you started to accept that somebody killing you might just be better than you