Get rid of Lolis and Lolicons

[Amaterasu]

I know that I'm opening a hell of a can of worms, I know that a lot of people are going to come out of the wood works and try to defend it and all. I know that I'm gonna get accused of being a closeted lolicon(I'm not, I don't even like kids in general). But it's something I've been feeling has been needed to be said for a long while.

Loli is an art style that took hold in Japan after a book known as the Lolita Complex, which was a book about someone wanting to [CENSORED] a child was released there. It became a viral hit and spawned the Lolita style, which in and of itself is just Victorian England dress turned up to 11. But... it also normalized the idea that it was okay for people to be attracted to kids. Yes, literal kids.

Japan didn't have laws against any sort of [CENSORED] until 2014, which it was finally made illegal and they gave people an entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year to get rid of it. And even so, they still try to [CENSORED] children in animation and manga. Yes, really, this is a thing that still happens. Yes, that's what the entire art style of Loli is actually about. If it was supposed to be cute, it'd be Kawaii. If it was supposed to be childlike it'd be Chibi. If it was supposed to be a normal child, it'd just be a child. Yes, there are actual terms for every type of defense that people make.

Also the "800 year old Vampire" defense is just the "Legal" Loli defense. They're still coded to be a child. It's still wrong. And according to laws in the US at least having Loli material and being a Lolicon(Which derives from Lolita Complex, you know, that book which someone wanted to [CENSORED] a kid. Yeah, you can get an idea of what they're really about. It's not about cute things, it's about kids)... is illegal and falls under the definition of simulated [CENSORED].

And to counter the, "It's just a fantasy" defense... why specifically the childlike character? Why specifically them? There are plenty of adult coded people in anime, manga, and games. Plenty of them, such as Tae Takemi from Persona 5(Early 20s, looks it), Nami from One Piece(18 pre-time skip, 20 post. Looks it), wanna go with short and cute? Shiori Katase from My Tiny Senpai(In her 20s, looks it), want flat? Ms. Kobayashi from Ms. Kobayashi's Dragon Maid(At least 20s, looks it), Zebiantes from Chillin in my 30s after getting Fired from the Demon Lord's Army(Unknown, looks and acts like an adult), Hana Uzaki from Uzaki-chan wants to hang out(College student, looks it). Why not any of those examples or more? Because it's not about a petite woman. It's about the fact the character is coded as a child and it's being used in place of materials that more overtly known as being illegal, but as I said before, Loli material still counts in the same boat under US Law.

As such, I believe Steam should rid itself of these things. Give this kind of thing one less platform of legitimacy. And that it should very much be a ban on sight kind of thing.

P.S. Not relevant, but I don't watch One Piece, I have a dislike of Shounen Anime, especially Battle Shonen, I just know Nami because my little brother is a Shounenhead. SEINEN FOR LIFE! Also all the [CENSORED] was so that someone couldn't just report this to the mods and get it taken down.

Edit: Thanks for the points.

[Amaterasu]

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Oprindeligt skrevet af lilcoffeebean:

Personally I spent about a decade in Japan and I can say I've honestly never heard shoujo or shounen used to address an individual child. It may happen, as I obviously was not privy to every conversation that occurred in the country, but there are already a number of terms that fill these roles that see common usage so I'm a bit skeptical.

Both are used outside of demographics and/or a literary sense though. Shounen-dan is quite the common term for young boys groups, sporting or otherwise. It's also used extensively in the legal sense to mean juvenile regardless of gender. Shoujo I've seen in written form, but I've not heard it used outside of demographics otherwise. This doesn't really matter though, because it is true that referring to a real child as a loli would be frowned upon.

When it comes to the actual word though it's not really sexual. It's just a descriptor. Lolicon on the other hand very much was describing the sexual attraction to loli's at it's onset. Colloquially the usage seems to have shifted some, where the attraction is still very much a part of it, but not necessarily a sexual attraction. There are arguably better terms that could be used for that though over co-opting a term centered on sexually explicit images of children even if fictional. I've always found the "but its fictional" defense a bit odd when it comes to R18 lolicon material, because there's still something about the characterization of a child that is found sexually appealing...and I just can't wrap my head around the attraction itself or why that would be ok.

For Valve's role, I don't think they should enforce my own morality, but they should air on the side of caution and naturally follow the law when it comes to sexual content depicting minors.

Arigatou gozaimasu, kohii-san.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af lilcoffeebean:

Personally I spent about a decade in Japan and I can say I've honestly never heard shoujo or shounen used to address an individual child. It may happen, as I obviously was not privy to every conversation that occurred in the country, but there are already a number of terms that fill these roles that see common usage so I'm a bit skeptical.

Both are used outside of demographics and/or a literary sense though. Shounen-dan is quite the common term for young boys groups, sporting or otherwise. It's also used extensively in the legal sense to mean juvenile regardless of gender. Shoujo I've seen in written form, but I've not heard it used outside of demographics otherwise. This doesn't really matter though, because it is true that referring to a real child as a loli would be frowned upon.

When it comes to the actual word though it's not really sexual. It's just a descriptor. Lolicon on the other hand very much was describing the sexual attraction to loli's at it's onset. Colloquially the usage seems to have shifted some, where the attraction is still very much a part of it, but not necessarily a sexual attraction. There are arguably better terms that could be used for that though over co-opting a term centered on sexually explicit images of children even if fictional. I've always found the "but its fictional" defense a bit odd when it comes to R18 lolicon material, because there's still something about the characterization of a child that is found sexually appealing...and I just can't wrap my head around the attraction itself or why that would be ok.

For Valve's role, I don't think they should enforce my own morality, but they should air on the side of caution and naturally follow the law when it comes to sexual content depicting minors.

They do. You can see this by denying multiple VNs that they feel sexualize minors.

The issue is, this topic isn't about that. It's about a term making someone uncomfortable an wanting it removed. Regardless of if it is being used in a sexual way or not.

[Amaterasu]

Oprindeligt skrevet af SlowMango:

Oprindeligt skrevet af lilcoffeebean:

Personally I spent about a decade in Japan and I can say I've honestly never heard shoujo or shounen used to address an individual child. It may happen, as I obviously was not privy to every conversation that occurred in the country, but there are already a number of terms that fill these roles that see common usage so I'm a bit skeptical.

Both are used outside of demographics and/or a literary sense though. Shounen-dan is quite the common term for young boys groups, sporting or otherwise. It's also used extensively in the legal sense to mean juvenile regardless of gender. Shoujo I've seen in written form, but I've not heard it used outside of demographics otherwise. This doesn't really matter though, because it is true that referring to a real child as a loli would be frowned upon.

When it comes to the actual word though it's not really sexual. It's just a descriptor. Lolicon on the other hand very much was describing the sexual attraction to loli's at it's onset. Colloquially the usage seems to have shifted some, where the attraction is still very much a part of it, but not necessarily a sexual attraction. There are arguably better terms that could be used for that though over co-opting a term centered on sexually explicit images of children even if fictional. I've always found the "but its fictional" defense a bit odd when it comes to R18 lolicon material, because there's still something about the characterization of a child that is found sexually appealing...and I just can't wrap my head around the attraction itself or why that would be ok.

For Valve's role, I don't think they should enforce my own morality, but they should air on the side of caution and naturally follow the law when it comes to sexual content depicting minors.

They do. You can see this by denying multiple VNs that they feel sexualize minors.

The issue is, this topic isn't about that. It's about a term making someone uncomfortable an wanting it removed. Regardless of if it is being used in a sexual way or not.

Citation needed on that one.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Oprindeligt skrevet af SlowMango:

They do. You can see this by denying multiple VNs that they feel sexualize minors.

The issue is, this topic isn't about that. It's about a term making someone uncomfortable an wanting it removed. Regardless of if it is being used in a sexual way or not.

Citation needed on that one.

There has literally been multiple threads about Steam banning the sale of games for containing content that they feel sexualizes minors.

They are usually posted in the 'Steam Discussions' subforum.

[76561199559798421]

i like steam but really why does this content even belong on steam? why is steam selling it and allowing it.

if you go on places like amazon you will be hard pressed to find any type of garbage being sold like this, they remove it cause it just belong, it doesn't belong on steam either.

steam needs to be proactive and to defend its wokeness on this one, pretending you are consumer friendly but allowing dodgy illegal type of gaming presence to demoralize your platform is considered stupid and absurd.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Everyone is Invited:

i like steam but really why does this content even belong on steam? why is steam selling it and allowing it.

if you go on places like amazon you will be hard pressed to find any type of garbage being sold like this, they remove it cause it just belong, it doesn't belong on steam either.

steam needs to be proactive and to defend its wokeness on this one, pretending you are consumer friendly but allowing dodgy illegal type of gaming presence to demoralize your platform is considered stupid and absurd.

They don't allow illegal content on the platform. Customers know this.

[Amaterasu]

Oprindeligt skrevet af SlowMango:

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Citation needed on that one.

There has literally been multiple threads about Steam banning the sale of games for containing content that they feel sexualizes minors.

They are usually posted in the 'Steam Discussions' subforum.

Correlation is not causation and assertion isn't proof.

I don't like seeing men in my AO games, but it's two consenting adults who are coded to be adults. So I don't think twice about it.

[The Commendatore]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Everyone is Invited:

i like steam but really why does this content even belong on steam? why is steam selling it and allowing it.

if you go on places like amazon you will be hard pressed to find any type of garbage being sold like this, they remove it cause it just belong, it doesn't belong on steam either.

steam needs to be proactive and to defend its wokeness on this one, pretending you are consumer friendly but allowing dodgy illegal type of gaming presence to demoralize your platform is considered stupid and absurd.

You really out here pretending Steam allows illegal content?

[Boblin the Goblin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Oprindeligt skrevet af SlowMango:

There has literally been multiple threads about Steam banning the sale of games for containing content that they feel sexualizes minors.

They are usually posted in the 'Steam Discussions' subforum.

Correlation is not causation and assertion isn't proof.

I don't like seeing men in my AO games, but it's two consenting adults who are coded to be adults. So I don't think twice about it.

This is proof though.[automaton-media.com]

Someone even already mentioned this specific game in this topic. So, you are aware of it.

[Amaterasu]

Oprindeligt skrevet af SlowMango:

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Correlation is not causation and assertion isn't proof.

I don't like seeing men in my AO games, but it's two consenting adults who are coded to be adults. So I don't think twice about it.

This is proof though.[automaton-media.com]

Someone even already mentioned this specific game in this topic. So, you are aware of it.

Has an H patch. It was intended to be eroge. Looks to be a flag on the play.

[76561199559798421]

explain why someone at steam though having any type of sexualized game was a smart idea and why the platform should promote any of it?

what type of employee did steam hire and allow to market this type of game on steams store platform. I have seen some of the adult games steam sells and even provides for "FREE" what is really going on and steam should consider firing and pressing legal charges against those employee's that promoted it.


Its not safe for work , its not safe for steam. NSFS should be the new term to identify products that belong on steam and products that don't

selling nudity to underage kids that bypass age verification would be considered illegal.

lemme give you a example:

Mom or dad or grandparents go and get a young teenager a steam card. They have parents set up the account of course cause children can't, then use the Steam card to get funds on the account, then purchase some of steams adult content games because the age filter isn't a good enough means to block the content.

The parents have no idea steam is selling that type of content if they did they wouldn't allow the children on it. I do not believe epic games sells any of those adult content games like steam.

the real question is what is wrong with steam, steams employee's and steams owner to allow adult content full nudity games on the platform of gaming which is suppose to be young adult friendly.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Oprindeligt skrevet af SlowMango:

This is proof though.[automaton-media.com]

Someone even already mentioned this specific game in this topic. So, you are aware of it.

Has an H patch. It was intended to be eroge. Looks to be a flag on the play.

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Hey look, a deflection. :slimetabby:

[The Commendatore]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Everyone is Invited:

explain why someone at steam though having any type of sexualized game was a smart idea and why the platform should promote any of it?

what type of employee did steam hire and allow to market this type of game on steams store platform. I have seen some of the adult games steam sells and even provides for "FREE" what is really going on and steam should consider firing and pressing legal charges against those employee's that promoted it.


Its not safe for work , its not safe for steam. NSFS should be the new term to identify products that belong on steam and products that don't

selling nudity to underage kids that bypass age verification would be considered illegal.

lemme give you a example:

Mom or dad or grandparents go and get a young teenager a steam card. They have parents set up the account of course cause children can't, then use the Steam card to get funds on the account, then purchase some of steams adult content games because the age filter isn't a good enough means to block the content.

The parents have no idea steam is selling that type of content if they did they wouldn't allow the children on it. I do not believe epic games sells any of those adult content games like steam.

the real question is what is wrong with steam, steams employee's and steams owner to allow adult content full nudity games on the platform of gaming which is suppose to be young adult friendly.

Oh, please. Adult content is turned off and hidden by default so minors see F all.

Try again.

[Amaterasu]

Oprindeligt skrevet af SlowMango:

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Has an H patch. It was intended to be eroge. Looks to be a flag on the play.

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Hey look, a deflection.

Oof. The refs called it. Not a deflection. Still has an H patch, intention is clear. The patch being on steam is not relevant. 15 yards. First down.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Oprindeligt skrevet af sungoddess14:

Oprindeligt skrevet af SlowMango:

Oof. The refs called it. Not a deflection. Still has an H patch, intention is clear. The patch being on steam is not relevant. 15 yards. First down.

It was denied from Steam.

So Steam is literally doing what you asked. They have been.