Get rid of Lolis and Lolicons

[Amaterasu]

I know that I'm opening a hell of a can of worms, I know that a lot of people are going to come out of the wood works and try to defend it and all. I know that I'm gonna get accused of being a closeted lolicon(I'm not, I don't even like kids in general). But it's something I've been feeling has been needed to be said for a long while.

Loli is an art style that took hold in Japan after a book known as the Lolita Complex, which was a book about someone wanting to [CENSORED] a child was released there. It became a viral hit and spawned the Lolita style, which in and of itself is just Victorian England dress turned up to 11. But... it also normalized the idea that it was okay for people to be attracted to kids. Yes, literal kids.

Japan didn't have laws against any sort of [CENSORED] until 2014, which it was finally made illegal and they gave people an entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year to get rid of it. And even so, they still try to [CENSORED] children in animation and manga. Yes, really, this is a thing that still happens. Yes, that's what the entire art style of Loli is actually about. If it was supposed to be cute, it'd be Kawaii. If it was supposed to be childlike it'd be Chibi. If it was supposed to be a normal child, it'd just be a child. Yes, there are actual terms for every type of defense that people make.

Also the "800 year old Vampire" defense is just the "Legal" Loli defense. They're still coded to be a child. It's still wrong. And according to laws in the US at least having Loli material and being a Lolicon(Which derives from Lolita Complex, you know, that book which someone wanted to [CENSORED] a kid. Yeah, you can get an idea of what they're really about. It's not about cute things, it's about kids)... is illegal and falls under the definition of simulated [CENSORED].

And to counter the, "It's just a fantasy" defense... why specifically the childlike character? Why specifically them? There are plenty of adult coded people in anime, manga, and games. Plenty of them, such as Tae Takemi from Persona 5(Early 20s, looks it), Nami from One Piece(18 pre-time skip, 20 post. Looks it), wanna go with short and cute? Shiori Katase from My Tiny Senpai(In her 20s, looks it), want flat? Ms. Kobayashi from Ms. Kobayashi's Dragon Maid(At least 20s, looks it), Zebiantes from Chillin in my 30s after getting Fired from the Demon Lord's Army(Unknown, looks and acts like an adult), Hana Uzaki from Uzaki-chan wants to hang out(College student, looks it). Why not any of those examples or more? Because it's not about a petite woman. It's about the fact the character is coded as a child and it's being used in place of materials that more overtly known as being illegal, but as I said before, Loli material still counts in the same boat under US Law.

As such, I believe Steam should rid itself of these things. Give this kind of thing one less platform of legitimacy. And that it should very much be a ban on sight kind of thing.

P.S. Not relevant, but I don't watch One Piece, I have a dislike of Shounen Anime, especially Battle Shonen, I just know Nami because my little brother is a Shounenhead. SEINEN FOR LIFE! Also all the [CENSORED] was so that someone couldn't just report this to the mods and get it taken down.

Edit: Thanks for the points.

[Amaterasu]

redacted původně napsal:

The hill some people choose to die on.

People will always try to justify their actions and try to tell themselves that they're not evil, that they're not in the wrong, that there's something wrong with other people. But it's like I say, "The more you have to justify your actions, the more evil the actions".

Plus Lolicons have been jestering me as if it means something other than 200 points. I've probably gotten as many points from being jestered as I gave to people today.

[Seraphita]

sungoddess14 původně napsal:

People will always try to justify their actions and try to tell themselves that they're not evil, that they're not in the wrong, that there's something wrong with other people. But it's like I say, "The more you have to justify your actions, the more evil the actions".

I don't see you try explain your side. All I see here is "I'm the only one who is right. Everyone else who disagrees with me is wrong." even though your logic is questionable. Let's remember who started this fight. It wasn't us but you with this thread.

sungoddess14 původně napsal:

Plus Lolicons have been jestering me as if it means something other than 200 points. I've probably gotten as many points from being jestered as I gave to people today.

Again. How do you know ONLY lolicons are jestering you? Do you have any evidence? You seem to be making up your own rules on who is right and who is wrong. Also, acting as if getting awards makes you right is weird, at best. Nothing factual from it...

[Sleepy Yoshi]

SlowMango původně napsal:

Ben Lubar původně napsal:

You could say that.

You could also say that I'm the lead developer of a game that doesn't have badges that glorify child pornography and I'd like the platform I distribute my game on to make the game that does have those change the names of the badges.

The latter would be more accurate.

The badge isn't glorifying it.

A 'lolicon' refers to a young girl character. While(unfortunately) it is generally used when referring to those characters being sexualized, it isn't always the case.

This badge is such a case.

If it is not sexual, then what is the differentiation between shojo and loli? Generally curious as I've never heard anyone argue that lolicon/shotacon as genre's were not innately sexual.

[Seraphita]

Sleepy Yoshi původně napsal:

If it is not sexual, then what is the differentiation between shojo and loli? Generally curious as I've never heard anyone argue that lolicon/shotacon as genre's were not innately sexual.

Shoujo: a genre of Japanese comics and animated films aimed primarily at a young female audience. A loli is... a loli. A loli can be found in shojo. Loli means "young girl". So why should a young girl not be found in an anime? It's literally where they started existing.

Just so we're clear, what exactly are you asking? Your question doesn't make sense.

Have you never heard of Kanna Kamui? Only to name one popular loli... Azusa? Rikka? Hecate? Shinobu? Yuuko? Yoshino? Nagi? Shiro? Aria? Mei? Konata? I could name many other ones. Loli are in SO many anime and games out there. They are everywhere.

[Ben Lubar]

Seraphita původně napsal:

Loli means "young girl".

You are being intentionally misleading with this definition.

It is sexualization of minors by definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon#Definition_and_scope

[𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼]

Ben Lubar původně napsal:

Seraphita původně napsal:

Loli means "young girl".

You are being intentionally misleading with this definition.

It is sexualization of minors by definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon#Definition_and_scope

Please stop showing how uneducated you are on even the barest differences of two words. My man here literally went "here is the definition of lolicon i found so that means it must be the definition of loli and all lolis are sexual". You clearly didn't even bother to read your own "source". If you bothered to try to understand the most basic concept you would be able to tell that loli and lolicon are different words.

A "loli" is a character with childlike features such as body, mannerism etc (and example would be Rebecca from the cyberpunk anime). Lolicon is like the other complexs (like mother, sister etc). Loli is literally not sexual by definition and to think so says more about you than it does about others.

Imma be honest here it's kinda ridiculous that I literally have to type this because you can't even tell the difference between 2 words.

Please educate yourself.

[Ben Lubar]

𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼 původně napsal:

Ben Lubar původně napsal:

You are being intentionally misleading with this definition.

It is sexualization of minors by definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon#Definition_and_scope

Please stop showing how uneducated you are on even the barest differences of two words. My man here literally went "here is the definition of lolicon i found so that means it must be the definition of loli and all lolis are sexual". You clearly didn't even bother to read your own "source". If you bothered to try to understand the most basic concept you would be able to tell that loli and lolicon are different words.

A "loli" is a character with childlike features such as body, mannerism etc (and example would be Rebecca from the cyberpunk anime). Lolicon is like the other complexs (like mother, sister etc). Loli is literally not sexual by definition and to think so says more about you than it does about others.

Imma be honest here it's kinda ridiculous that I literally have to type this because you can't even tell the difference between 2 words.

Please educate yourself.

Did you read the paragraph I linked to? It explicitly states that lolicon is pedophilia.

If you think you know better than Wikipedia, edit the article.

But Wikipedia generally doesn't make claims with dozens of citations as a fluke.

[𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼]

Ben Lubar původně napsal:

𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼 původně napsal:

Please stop showing how uneducated you are on even the barest differences of two words. My man here literally went "here is the definition of lolicon i found so that means it must be the definition of loli and all lolis are sexual". You clearly didn't even bother to read your own "source". If you bothered to try to understand the most basic concept you would be able to tell that loli and lolicon are different words.

A "loli" is a character with childlike features such as body, mannerism etc (and example would be Rebecca from the cyberpunk anime). Lolicon is like the other complexs (like mother, sister etc). Loli is literally not sexual by definition and to think so says more about you than it does about others.

Imma be honest here it's kinda ridiculous that I literally have to type this because you can't even tell the difference between 2 words.

Please educate yourself.

Did you read the paragraph I linked to? It explicitly states that lolicon is pedophilia.

Clearly you are not very bright so I'm going to state this as simply as possible:

1 - You directly quoted a post saying "loli means young girl" then directly said it was sexual and linked a wikipedia article for a different word (lolicon). I shouldn't have to explain this but here we are.

2 - I pointed out how you clearly didn't bother to read or understand even the most basic concept of words not being the same. Then you of course not reading again did the same thing in responding to me again.

This truly is a bruh moment.

Now to go on to what you are feebly trying to argue based on a wikipedia article (about lolicon not loli lol):

You are I assume trying to say that because a wikipedia article told you (or rather you interpreted it that way because you can't be bother to read it, as it doesn't say that but rather is talking about the history and controversy of the genre) that lolicon is pedo? Beyond the ridiculousness of this statement that can be countered by simply saying the same thing of an article that says the opposite or even bringing up usa laws (since steam is usa based) on how they are not classified as cp then that would mean they are not.

To put it simply, please don't talk about stuff you clearly know nothing about because you want to say drawings bad but can't be bothered to do the barest of research to even know the difference between loli and lolicon in the first place.

[𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼]

sungoddess14 původně napsal:

redacted původně napsal:

You're right, it's probably straight pedos leaving jesters on her account.

What makes it funnier is I never tried to justify my stance or my actions. Nor have I stated that being jestered makes me right. I just said that it doesn't mean anything. I should get some extra spare sets of clothing and go into farming, because all these strawmen will make great scarecrows.

Since I'm here though I would like to at least thank the op for admitting that they have no justification for their actions and don't intend to do so either. They are only here to scream about the big bad hentai drawings and as I pointed out in my others posts where I linked their horrible comments they are even willing to do so at the cost of real victims. Although it was clearly obvious it was just going to be virtue signalling from the beginning anyway. I'm just surprised they were willing to admit it.

[Sasori Kigaru]

So from what I can gather from google, Loli is just a child/childlike character or a shortened for Lolita Fashion or Complex both of which have different meanings.
Lolicon is... well from a lot of different sources is either a genre focusing on child/young/child-like characters (usually in a sexual way) or slang to describe somebody with a sexual attraction to fictional minors.

Thats about as deep as I'm going to go, Lolicon stuff just makes me very uncomfortable in general. You all have fun.
---
Sources.
https://www.yourdictionary.com/lolicon
https://www.wordnik.com/words/lolicon
https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/handle/1794/25434
https://www.encyclo.co.uk/meaning-of-lolicon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon (There is a lot of history here, very long read)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loli
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Loli
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_fashion
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Lolita_complex

[Zarineth]

To be honest, I always considered "loli" as a young or young looking girl. One of the anime sites I was using while in college used "loli" tag in this exact way and I sticked to it.
As long as "loli" are in SFW drawings/games/anime, I don't see a reason to ban them. And if it's NSFW, looks like Steam already ban games like that (like with "Order us" week or two ago)

I've even checked and animes like Girls und Panzer or No Game No Life are tagged "loli" there. Or more accurately character type in those animes.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Ben Lubar původně napsal:

Seraphita původně napsal:

Loli means "young girl".

You are being intentionally misleading with this definition.

It is sexualization of minors by definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon#Definition_and_scope

You mean like this?

The meaning of lolicon in the otaku context developed in the early 1980s, during the "lolicon boom"[d] in adult manga (see § History). According to editor and critic Akira Akagi, the term's meaning moved away from the sexual pairing of an older man and a young girl, and instead came to describe desire for "cuteness" and "girl-ness" in manga and anime.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Ben Lubar původně napsal:

𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼 původně napsal:

Please stop showing how uneducated you are on even the barest differences of two words. My man here literally went "here is the definition of lolicon i found so that means it must be the definition of loli and all lolis are sexual". You clearly didn't even bother to read your own "source". If you bothered to try to understand the most basic concept you would be able to tell that loli and lolicon are different words.

A "loli" is a character with childlike features such as body, mannerism etc (and example would be Rebecca from the cyberpunk anime). Lolicon is like the other complexs (like mother, sister etc). Loli is literally not sexual by definition and to think so says more about you than it does about others.

Imma be honest here it's kinda ridiculous that I literally have to type this because you can't even tell the difference between 2 words.

Please educate yourself.

Did you read the paragraph I linked to? It explicitly states that lolicon is pedophilia.

If you think you know better than Wikipedia, edit the article.

But Wikipedia generally doesn't make claims with dozens of citations as a fluke.

Weird how you say it explicitly states it's pedophilia when the first paragraph doesn't say that.

But this has happened before with misrepresenting definitions, so it's not surprising.

[Sleepy Yoshi]

Seraphita původně napsal:

Sleepy Yoshi původně napsal:

If it is not sexual, then what is the differentiation between shojo and loli? Generally curious as I've never heard anyone argue that lolicon/shotacon as genre's were not innately sexual.

Shoujo: a genre of Japanese comics and animated films aimed primarily at a young female audience. A loli is... a loli. A loli can be found in shojo. Loli means "young girl". So why should a young girl not be found in an anime? It's literally where they started existing.

Just so we're clear, what exactly are you asking? Your question doesn't make sense.

Have you never heard of Kanna Kamui? Only to name one popular loli... Azusa? Rikka? Hecate? Shinobu? Yuuko? Yoshino? Nagi? Shiro? Aria? Mei? Konata? I could name many other ones. Loli are in SO many anime and games out there. They are everywhere.

I'm not asking about the demographic shojo. I'm saying that shojo is the literal word you would use in Japanese to say "young girl". You would never call a young girl on the street loli. Why is that if they both 'just' mean young girl?

[Boblin the Goblin]

Sleepy Yoshi původně napsal:

Seraphita původně napsal:

Shoujo: a genre of Japanese comics and animated films aimed primarily at a young female audience. A loli is... a loli. A loli can be found in shojo. Loli means "young girl". So why should a young girl not be found in an anime? It's literally where they started existing.

Just so we're clear, what exactly are you asking? Your question doesn't make sense.

Have you never heard of Kanna Kamui? Only to name one popular loli... Azusa? Rikka? Hecate? Shinobu? Yuuko? Yoshino? Nagi? Shiro? Aria? Mei? Konata? I could name many other ones. Loli are in SO many anime and games out there. They are everywhere.

I'm not asking about the demographic shojo. I'm saying that shojo is the literal word you would use in Japanese to say "young girl". You would never call a young girl on the street loli. Why is that if they both 'just' mean young girl?

Shojo is literally a genre. Just like shonen.

You don't call adolescent Japanese boys 'shonens' do you?

You're trying to apply genre/literary terms to people. It doesn't work like that.