Get rid of Lolis and Lolicons

[Amaterasu]

I know that I'm opening a hell of a can of worms, I know that a lot of people are going to come out of the wood works and try to defend it and all. I know that I'm gonna get accused of being a closeted lolicon(I'm not, I don't even like kids in general). But it's something I've been feeling has been needed to be said for a long while.

Loli is an art style that took hold in Japan after a book known as the Lolita Complex, which was a book about someone wanting to [CENSORED] a child was released there. It became a viral hit and spawned the Lolita style, which in and of itself is just Victorian England dress turned up to 11. But... it also normalized the idea that it was okay for people to be attracted to kids. Yes, literal kids.

Japan didn't have laws against any sort of [CENSORED] until 2014, which it was finally made illegal and they gave people an entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year to get rid of it. And even so, they still try to [CENSORED] children in animation and manga. Yes, really, this is a thing that still happens. Yes, that's what the entire art style of Loli is actually about. If it was supposed to be cute, it'd be Kawaii. If it was supposed to be childlike it'd be Chibi. If it was supposed to be a normal child, it'd just be a child. Yes, there are actual terms for every type of defense that people make.

Also the "800 year old Vampire" defense is just the "Legal" Loli defense. They're still coded to be a child. It's still wrong. And according to laws in the US at least having Loli material and being a Lolicon(Which derives from Lolita Complex, you know, that book which someone wanted to [CENSORED] a kid. Yeah, you can get an idea of what they're really about. It's not about cute things, it's about kids)... is illegal and falls under the definition of simulated [CENSORED].

And to counter the, "It's just a fantasy" defense... why specifically the childlike character? Why specifically them? There are plenty of adult coded people in anime, manga, and games. Plenty of them, such as Tae Takemi from Persona 5(Early 20s, looks it), Nami from One Piece(18 pre-time skip, 20 post. Looks it), wanna go with short and cute? Shiori Katase from My Tiny Senpai(In her 20s, looks it), want flat? Ms. Kobayashi from Ms. Kobayashi's Dragon Maid(At least 20s, looks it), Zebiantes from Chillin in my 30s after getting Fired from the Demon Lord's Army(Unknown, looks and acts like an adult), Hana Uzaki from Uzaki-chan wants to hang out(College student, looks it). Why not any of those examples or more? Because it's not about a petite woman. It's about the fact the character is coded as a child and it's being used in place of materials that more overtly known as being illegal, but as I said before, Loli material still counts in the same boat under US Law.

As such, I believe Steam should rid itself of these things. Give this kind of thing one less platform of legitimacy. And that it should very much be a ban on sight kind of thing.

P.S. Not relevant, but I don't watch One Piece, I have a dislike of Shounen Anime, especially Battle Shonen, I just know Nami because my little brother is a Shounenhead. SEINEN FOR LIFE! Also all the [CENSORED] was so that someone couldn't just report this to the mods and get it taken down.

Edit: Thanks for the points.

[Brian9824]

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

brian9824님이 먼저 게시:

Your favorite game is a Alien Swarm: Reactive Drop.

You could say that.

I didn't say that, YOU said that.


Also once again, steam doesn't glorify child pornography just because you can't understand the difference between something being legal and illegal.

[Ben Lubar]

brian9824님이 먼저 게시:

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

You could say that.

I didn't say that, YOU said that.

Also once again, steam doesn't glorify child pornography just because you can't understand the difference between something being legal and illegal.

I'm not accusing the whole of Steam of supporting one specific badge. I'm asking for the name of the badge to be changed.

[Seraphita]

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

SlowMango님이 먼저 게시:

Then it's a personal issue.

I don't care for badges depicting Nazi or Communist symbols. Not going to ask for those to be renamed or removed.

Badges depicting Nazi symbols should also be removed. Out-of-context Nazi symbolism is illegal in countries where Steam does business.

So now you're trying to equate a nazi symbol that was used in real life to commit genocide, to a fictional girl being completely harmless? One day, I hope you see the problem...

[Boblin the Goblin]

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

brian9824님이 먼저 게시:

Your favorite game is a Alien Swarm: Reactive Drop.

You could say that.

You could also say that I'm the lead developer of a game that doesn't have badges that glorify child pornography and I'd like the platform I distribute my game on to make the game that does have those change the names of the badges.

The latter would be more accurate.

The badge isn't glorifying it.

A 'lolicon' refers to a young girl character. While(unfortunately) it is generally used when referring to those characters being sexualized, it isn't always the case.

This badge is such a case.

[Brian9824]

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

brian9824님이 먼저 게시:

I didn't say that, YOU said that.

Also once again, steam doesn't glorify child pornography just because you can't understand the difference between something being legal and illegal.

I'm not accusing the whole of Steam of supporting one specific badge. I'm asking for the name of the badge to be changed.

Ask the developer then as already stated. There is nothing illegal or against the rules about lolicon so Steam isn't going to make up rules that will effect others because of your personal issues.

The same way they aren't going to force devs to change your favorite game because others find YOUR games to be offensive.

[Seraphita]

SlowMango님이 먼저 게시:

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

You could say that.

You could also say that I'm the lead developer of a game that doesn't have badges that glorify child pornography and I'd like the platform I distribute my game on to make the game that does have those change the names of the badges.

The latter would be more accurate.

The badge isn't glorifying it.

A 'lolicon' refers to a young girl character. While(unfortunately) it is generally used when referring to those characters being sexualized, it isn't always the case.

This badge is such a case.

The problem is that people who think fiction = reality are objectively wrong. Fictional content will never be CP, regardless of how they rage about it. They twist the definition of what is and what is not and lot of people are very tired of it. The only exception is photo-realistic art where it MIMICs real life and THEN it becomes a big problem.

[𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼]

sungoddess14님이 먼저 게시:

𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼님이 먼저 게시:

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/4030224296644543738/?ctp=56#c4299322040761735688

I just want to point out op not only does not actually care about real victims but also has directly made statements not only in favor of wasting police resources that leads to more victims, but also making direct statements spitting in the face of real life victims equating their suffering to that of drawings. All this and more and when called out had no refutes to these claims. The conversation in the link above to that steam discussion.

Oh hey, another deflection, can I get a double bingo?

I'm a real life victim, dear. Not every victim is the exact same. But we all suffer because of it, that suffering gets easier to deal with through therapy and medication, but it never, ever goes away fully. It never washes off, no matter how hot the water we shower under.

I'm not equating anything. This is an assumption that is trying to deflect from the actual topic at hand by trying to make someone look bad. While claiming, "Think of the victims!"

Being a victim gives you no right to spit on other victims experiences and lesser the crime committed against them just because you hate the dumb drawings, not only that it only makes what you said even worse considering you should know better.

Also don't pull the "think of the victim" card when you literally were in the thread I linked go on rant after rant doing the same thing with even the post I linked directly having you talk about how the us government should do more to help children. Also you directly equated it in your posts saying they should receive the same punishments and more, that is literally the definition of equating them.

You also refuse to even explain your disgusting comments and more and only scream deflection when all you have done is straight up projection. You also refuse to even do the bare minimum for actually arguing to prove your point.

Simply put you were caught in the act and your true colors were revealed, you don't care about anyone but yourself and even are willing to demean the suffering of others because you have a hate boner for drawings and want to look good on the internet.

[Ben Lubar]

brian9824님이 먼저 게시:

The same way they aren't going to force devs to change your favorite game because others find YOUR games to be offensive.

Are you claiming that I can't change Alien Swarm: Reactive Drop to edit the names of things that are offensive so that they aren't offensive anymore?

[Seraphita]

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

brian9824님이 먼저 게시:

The same way they aren't going to force devs to change your favorite game because others find YOUR games to be offensive.

Are you claiming that I can't change Alien Swarm: Reactive Drop to edit the names of things that are offensive so that they aren't offensive anymore?

What, in the seven hells, would you be offended about in Alien Swarm? -.-

[Ben Lubar]

Seraphita님이 먼저 게시:

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

Are you claiming that I can't change Alien Swarm: Reactive Drop to edit the names of things that are offensive so that they aren't offensive anymore?

What, in the seven hells, would you be offended about in Alien Swarm? -.-

There's an alien type that's called Mender now. Its name used to be insensitive. That's why someone asked me to change it and I did.

[Seraphita]

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

Seraphita님이 먼저 게시:

What, in the seven hells, would you be offended about in Alien Swarm? -.-

There's an alien type that's called Mender now. Its name used to be insensitive. That's why someone asked me to change it and I did.

....What the actual f? Mender has the name "Mend" in it. "Mend: repair (something that is broken or damaged)." Who the hell would be offended by that? Like, you need to realize when this kind of crap is going too far. All of this is nothing but over-reacting...

[Amaterasu]

I had to step away for a mental health break, I was starting to get flashbacks and was disassociating hard. I'm not going to change my position that I believe that lolicon content is just "gray area" CP in the US and that it needs to be made illegal instead. I'm not going to ignore basic psychology that states that the more people do things that reward them with dopamine, the more they want to engage in it and the more extreme it eventually has to get.

I don't care how many deflections or strawmen have to be built to try to make it look good while trying to make me seem like I'm doing something I'm not. I'm not going to change. My experiences are my own, my trauma is my own... and how I deal with it is in my own way. And if that way doesn't fit someone's definition of it? They can take it up with psychology itself.

[Ben Lubar]

Seraphita님이 먼저 게시:

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

There's an alien type that's called Mender now. Its name used to be insensitive. That's why someone asked me to change it and I did.

....What the actual f? :surprise: Mender has the name "Mend" in it. "Mend: repair (something that is broken or damaged)." Who the hell would be offended by that? Like, you need to realize when this kind of crap is going too far. All of this is nothing but over-reacting...

"Mender" is the new name that the alien has. I'm not posting the old, culturally insensitive name.

[Seraphita]

sungoddess14님이 먼저 게시:

I had to step away for a mental health break, I was starting to get flashbacks and was disassociating hard. I'm not going to change my position that I believe that lolicon content is just "gray area" CP in the US and that it needs to be made illegal instead. I'm not going to ignore basic psychology that states that the more people do things that reward them with dopamine, the more they want to engage in it and the more extreme it eventually has to get.

I don't care how many deflections or strawmen have to be built to try to make it look good while trying to make me seem like I'm doing something I'm not. I'm not going to change. My experiences are my own, my trauma is my own... and how I deal with it is in my own way. And if that way doesn't fit someone's definition of it? They can take it up with psychology itself.

I mean, you're free to be wrong but you can't force others to agree. I have sympathy if you really suffered abuse but you can't blame it on fictional characters. You can throw the word "deflection" wrongly any amount of times you want but it will not make you right.

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

"Mender" is the new name that the alien has. I'm not posting the old, culturally insensitive name.

Hmmm... I see. So we don't really have any context to say if the name really was offensive or not... Just great. That doesn't seem very helpful to the discussion, then. o.O

Edit: Now I know the name. A simple google helped me. Do you really think THAT name was offensive, really? Come on, now. We can't really be this thin-skinned. x.x

[Ben Lubar]

Seraphita님이 먼저 게시:

Ben Lubar님이 먼저 게시:

"Mender" is the new name that the alien has. I'm not posting the old, culturally insensitive name.

Hmmm... I see. So we don't really have any context to say if the name really was offensive or not... Just great. That doesn't seem very helpful to the discussion, then. o.O

The argument made against me was that it was impossible for me to change something people found offensive in a game I am the lead developer for. That is the argument I was disproving.