Get rid of Lolis and Lolicons

[Amaterasu]

I know that I'm opening a hell of a can of worms, I know that a lot of people are going to come out of the wood works and try to defend it and all. I know that I'm gonna get accused of being a closeted lolicon(I'm not, I don't even like kids in general). But it's something I've been feeling has been needed to be said for a long while.

Loli is an art style that took hold in Japan after a book known as the Lolita Complex, which was a book about someone wanting to [CENSORED] a child was released there. It became a viral hit and spawned the Lolita style, which in and of itself is just Victorian England dress turned up to 11. But... it also normalized the idea that it was okay for people to be attracted to kids. Yes, literal kids.

Japan didn't have laws against any sort of [CENSORED] until 2014, which it was finally made illegal and they gave people an entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year to get rid of it. And even so, they still try to [CENSORED] children in animation and manga. Yes, really, this is a thing that still happens. Yes, that's what the entire art style of Loli is actually about. If it was supposed to be cute, it'd be Kawaii. If it was supposed to be childlike it'd be Chibi. If it was supposed to be a normal child, it'd just be a child. Yes, there are actual terms for every type of defense that people make.

Also the "800 year old Vampire" defense is just the "Legal" Loli defense. They're still coded to be a child. It's still wrong. And according to laws in the US at least having Loli material and being a Lolicon(Which derives from Lolita Complex, you know, that book which someone wanted to [CENSORED] a kid. Yeah, you can get an idea of what they're really about. It's not about cute things, it's about kids)... is illegal and falls under the definition of simulated [CENSORED].

And to counter the, "It's just a fantasy" defense... why specifically the childlike character? Why specifically them? There are plenty of adult coded people in anime, manga, and games. Plenty of them, such as Tae Takemi from Persona 5(Early 20s, looks it), Nami from One Piece(18 pre-time skip, 20 post. Looks it), wanna go with short and cute? Shiori Katase from My Tiny Senpai(In her 20s, looks it), want flat? Ms. Kobayashi from Ms. Kobayashi's Dragon Maid(At least 20s, looks it), Zebiantes from Chillin in my 30s after getting Fired from the Demon Lord's Army(Unknown, looks and acts like an adult), Hana Uzaki from Uzaki-chan wants to hang out(College student, looks it). Why not any of those examples or more? Because it's not about a petite woman. It's about the fact the character is coded as a child and it's being used in place of materials that more overtly known as being illegal, but as I said before, Loli material still counts in the same boat under US Law.

As such, I believe Steam should rid itself of these things. Give this kind of thing one less platform of legitimacy. And that it should very much be a ban on sight kind of thing.

P.S. Not relevant, but I don't watch One Piece, I have a dislike of Shounen Anime, especially Battle Shonen, I just know Nami because my little brother is a Shounenhead. SEINEN FOR LIFE! Also all the [CENSORED] was so that someone couldn't just report this to the mods and get it taken down.

Edit: Thanks for the points.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

I do not want the name of a type of pornography in a Steam badge that is visible to users of all ages. I do not want to see that word on the website I use for work, and adding it to my list of filtered words does nothing to the name of the badge. Is it too much to ask to just rename a badge so it doesn't have the name of a type of pornography in it?

That label isn't pornography.

[Amaterasu]

Publicado originalmente por 𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼:

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/4030224296644543738/?ctp=56#c4299322040761735688

I just want to point out op not only does not actually care about real victims but also has directly made statements not only in favor of wasting police resources that leads to more victims, but also making direct statements spitting in the face of real life victims equating their suffering to that of drawings. All this and more and when called out had no refutes to these claims. The conversation in the link above to that steam discussion.

Oh hey, another deflection, can I get a double bingo?

I'm a real life victim, dear. Not every victim is the exact same. But we all suffer because of it, that suffering gets easier to deal with through therapy and medication, but it never, ever goes away fully. It never washes off, no matter how hot the water we shower under.

I'm not equating anything. This is an assumption that is trying to deflect from the actual topic at hand by trying to make someone look bad. While claiming, "Think of the victims!"

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

I do not want the name of a type of pornography in a Steam badge that is visible to users of all ages. I do not want to see that word on the website I use for work, and adding it to my list of filtered words does nothing to the name of the badge. Is it too much to ask to just rename a badge so it doesn't have the name of a type of pornography in it?

Ask the developer, nothing to do with steam.

Steam has restrictions on what kinds of imagery can be in a trading card. I am suggesting that they add a rule to also cover the names of badges.

If Steam can't control what badges are named on their platform, that would indicate a very dangerous situation that seems impossible given the kinds of reviews I've had to go through with my game.

[Seraphita]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

I do not want the name of a type of pornography in a Steam badge that is visible to users of all ages. I do not want to see that word on the website I use for work, and adding it to my list of filtered words does nothing to the name of the badge. Is it too much to ask to just rename a badge so it doesn't have the name of a type of pornography in it?

Yes, because it's not what you think it is. Sorry... You will have to deal with it. There is nothing wrong with my badge, no harm in it. You CAN be offended if you want but people are often offended about nothing so that's nothing new. This is overreacting...

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Also per the article as I already stated

Laws have been enacted to criminalize "obscene images of children, no matter how they are made"

Just like furry art can become obscene and become illegal, Loli art is the same way. It can range anywhere from G to OMG call the FBI.

Trying to lump it all as illegal is as nonsensical as trying to lump all movies as illegal because some people produced snuff films.

Also, I feel the need to repost a transcript from a video that I've posted before since it does feel relevant to all of what is being said in this thread, including the thread itself.

Publicado originalmente por Transcript:

"False reports based on fictional content are so disturbingly common and damaging that the FBI and the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the two biggest agencies for helping out sort this kind of thing, have begged the public to stop filing inactionable reports over fictional content because these false reports hurt real children. They take away time and resources that could help real victims, not help people with their twitter beef, who are upset about pixels. If you do this, if you actually think this is helping anyone, you are a BAD person. You are wasting resources that could help real children. But no, you want to Virtue Signal and exploit these systems to report people you have a personal beef with. Get your priorities straight. That is insane."

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Ask the developer, nothing to do with steam.

Steam has restrictions on what kinds of imagery can be in a trading card. I am suggesting that they add a rule to also cover the names of badges.

If Steam can't control what badges are named on their platform, that would indicate a very dangerous situation that seems impossible given the kinds of reviews I've had to go through with my game.

Name isn't remotely illegal, and as we already went over lolicon as long as its not depicting "obscene images of children" isn't illegal.

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Steam has restrictions on what kinds of imagery can be in a trading card. I am suggesting that they add a rule to also cover the names of badges.

If Steam can't control what badges are named on their platform, that would indicate a very dangerous situation that seems impossible given the kinds of reviews I've had to go through with my game.

Name isn't remotely illegal, and as we already went over lolicon as long as its not depicting "obscene images of children" isn't illegal.

Legality has nothing to do with whether it's acceptable to allow Steam games to add specific words to a page that cannot be hidden using user preferences.

[shado]

"No harm in a badge named You are the perfect pedophile"
excuse me

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por shado:

"No harm in a badge named You are the perfect pedophile"
excuse me

Exactly. It makes me very uncomfortable every time I see it.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Publicado originalmente por shado:

"No harm in a badge named You are the perfect pedophile"
excuse me

Exactly. It makes me very uncomfortable every time I see it.

Then don't go to their profile and look at it.

It's not even on the showcase.

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por SlowMango:

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Exactly. It makes me very uncomfortable every time I see it.

Then don't go to their profile and look at it.

It's not even on the showcase.

It appears on every forum page I see their posts on if I happen to move my mouse in the general vicinity of their name or avatar.

And the entire reason they chose to feature that badge is that they know it makes people uncomfortable.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Name isn't remotely illegal, and as we already went over lolicon as long as its not depicting "obscene images of children" isn't illegal.

Legality has nothing to do with whether it's acceptable to allow Steam games to add specific words to a page that cannot be hidden using user preferences.

Legality has everything to do with it. Your personal issues aside doesn't give you the right to dictate things that others might enjoy.

If your uncomfortable seeing the world then you can seek help on how to cope with it. If Steam removed all the content that someone feels uncomfortable with there would be very few games left....

Your favorite game is a Alien Swarm: Reactive Drop. I know people whom the very thought of aliens existing is offensive to them and makes them uncomfortable because of their religious views. So based on your logic your favorite game would be removed from Steam because other people seeing it makes them uncomfortable...

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Publicado originalmente por SlowMango:

Then don't go to their profile and look at it.

It's not even on the showcase.

It appears on every forum page I see their posts on if I happen to move my mouse in the general vicinity of their name or avatar.

And the entire reason they chose to feature that badge is that they know it makes people uncomfortable.

Then it's a personal issue.

I don't care for badges depicting Nazi or Communist symbols. Not going to ask for those to be renamed or removed.

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Your favorite game is a Alien Swarm: Reactive Drop.

You could say that.

You could also say that I'm the lead developer of a game that doesn't have badges that glorify child pornography and I'd like the platform I distribute my game on to make the game that does have those change the names of the badges.

The latter would be more accurate.

[Seraphita]

Publicado originalmente por sungoddess14:

Oh hey, another deflection, can I get a double bingo?

I'm a real life victim, dear. Not every victim is the exact same. But we all suffer because of it, that suffering gets easier to deal with through therapy and medication, but it never, ever goes away fully. It never washes off, no matter how hot the water we shower under.

I'm not equating anything. This is an assumption that is trying to deflect from the actual topic at hand by trying to make someone look bad. While claiming, "Think of the victims!"

No matter how much suffering you think you've been through, you still cannot blame it on the fictional characters. Blame it on REAL people. By attacking fictional characters and trying to report it, you're not only hurting yourself but also other victims. This is fact.

There is, again, literally no deflection in reminding you that reality =/= fiction. YOU are trying to equate reality and fiction while claiming it doesn't apply to violence in video games. You are drowning in double standards. What you're saying doesn't make sense.

Publicado originalmente por shado:

"No harm in a badge named You are the perfect pedophile"
excuse me

Woops. You've done a big goof right there. You're watering down a term you don't understand. The fact you think "lolicon" translates to "pedo" tells more about you. The truth is that you're misusing and devaluing a term that's used to identify real life threats.

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por SlowMango:

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

It appears on every forum page I see their posts on if I happen to move my mouse in the general vicinity of their name or avatar.

And the entire reason they chose to feature that badge is that they know it makes people uncomfortable.

Then it's a personal issue.

I don't care for badges depicting Nazi or Communist symbols. Not going to ask for those to be renamed or removed.

Badges depicting Nazi symbols should also be removed. Out-of-context Nazi symbolism is illegal in countries where Steam does business.