Get rid of Lolis and Lolicons

[Amaterasu]

I know that I'm opening a hell of a can of worms, I know that a lot of people are going to come out of the wood works and try to defend it and all. I know that I'm gonna get accused of being a closeted lolicon(I'm not, I don't even like kids in general). But it's something I've been feeling has been needed to be said for a long while.

Loli is an art style that took hold in Japan after a book known as the Lolita Complex, which was a book about someone wanting to [CENSORED] a child was released there. It became a viral hit and spawned the Lolita style, which in and of itself is just Victorian England dress turned up to 11. But... it also normalized the idea that it was okay for people to be attracted to kids. Yes, literal kids.

Japan didn't have laws against any sort of [CENSORED] until 2014, which it was finally made illegal and they gave people an entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year to get rid of it. And even so, they still try to [CENSORED] children in animation and manga. Yes, really, this is a thing that still happens. Yes, that's what the entire art style of Loli is actually about. If it was supposed to be cute, it'd be Kawaii. If it was supposed to be childlike it'd be Chibi. If it was supposed to be a normal child, it'd just be a child. Yes, there are actual terms for every type of defense that people make.

Also the "800 year old Vampire" defense is just the "Legal" Loli defense. They're still coded to be a child. It's still wrong. And according to laws in the US at least having Loli material and being a Lolicon(Which derives from Lolita Complex, you know, that book which someone wanted to [CENSORED] a kid. Yeah, you can get an idea of what they're really about. It's not about cute things, it's about kids)... is illegal and falls under the definition of simulated [CENSORED].

And to counter the, "It's just a fantasy" defense... why specifically the childlike character? Why specifically them? There are plenty of adult coded people in anime, manga, and games. Plenty of them, such as Tae Takemi from Persona 5(Early 20s, looks it), Nami from One Piece(18 pre-time skip, 20 post. Looks it), wanna go with short and cute? Shiori Katase from My Tiny Senpai(In her 20s, looks it), want flat? Ms. Kobayashi from Ms. Kobayashi's Dragon Maid(At least 20s, looks it), Zebiantes from Chillin in my 30s after getting Fired from the Demon Lord's Army(Unknown, looks and acts like an adult), Hana Uzaki from Uzaki-chan wants to hang out(College student, looks it). Why not any of those examples or more? Because it's not about a petite woman. It's about the fact the character is coded as a child and it's being used in place of materials that more overtly known as being illegal, but as I said before, Loli material still counts in the same boat under US Law.

As such, I believe Steam should rid itself of these things. Give this kind of thing one less platform of legitimacy. And that it should very much be a ban on sight kind of thing.

P.S. Not relevant, but I don't watch One Piece, I have a dislike of Shounen Anime, especially Battle Shonen, I just know Nami because my little brother is a Shounenhead. SEINEN FOR LIFE! Also all the [CENSORED] was so that someone couldn't just report this to the mods and get it taken down.

Edit: Thanks for the points.

[Amaterasu]

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Steam is cracking down on games that have potential minors in sexual situations, however "Lolicon" (the sexualization of underaged animated girls) is still legal in US law, protected by art/public expression laws as of current.

*Takes off glasses, puts on a different pair and reads from an excerpt*

In the United States, federal law prohibits the possession of [CENSORED] Pornography. After the passage of Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to end the Exploitation of Children Today, also known as the PROTECT Act of 2003, [CENSORED] pornography includes any obscene images that appear to depict and identifiable minor.

The PROTECT Act was passed in the aftermath of a Supreme Court case that had held that completely virtual [CENSORED] pornography was protected under the First Amendment as long as it is not obscene. A key component of this ruling was that because the pornography was not a visual depiction of an actual [CENSORED], it was a victimless crime.

After this case, Congress passed the PROTECT Act to prohibit virtual [CENSORED] pornography that was obscene and that was transmitted through a common carrier(like the internet, hint hint), transported across state lines, or of an amount that indicates an intent to distribute.

At least one person has been charged in the U.S. with possessing pornographic material transported in interstate commerce under the PROTECT Act. In 2008, [Name Redacted for Privacy] pled guilty to obscenity and [CENSORED] porn charges after buying a comic book featuring pornographic manga. He was sentenced to 6 months in jail, but was not required to register as a sex offender. He had been facing up to 15 years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.

*removes the second pair and places back on her first*

According to this, Lolicon is... not legal in the United States. And it took me about 15 seconds to find this.

[ุ]

Publicado originalmente por sungoddess14:

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Steam is cracking down on games that have potential minors in sexual situations, however "Lolicon" (the sexualization of underaged animated girls) is still legal in US law, protected by art/public expression laws as of current.

*Takes off glasses, puts on a different pair and reads from an excerpt*

In the United States, federal law prohibits the possession of [CENSORED] Pornography. After the passage of Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to end the Exploitation of Children Today, also known as the PROTECT Act of 2003, [CENSORED] pornography includes any obscene images that appear to depict and identifiable minor.

The PROTECT Act was passed in the aftermath of a Supreme Court case that had held that completely virtual [CENSORED] pornography was protected under the First Amendment as long as it is not obscene. A key component of this ruling was that because the pornography was not a visual depiction of an actual [CENSORED], it was a victimless crime.

After this case, Congress passed the PROTECT Act to prohibit virtual [CENSORED] pornography that was obscene and that was transmitted through a common carrier(like the internet, hint hint), transported across state lines, or of an amount that indicates an intent to distribute.

At least one person has been charged in the U.S. with possessing pornographic material transported in interstate commerce under the PROTECT Act. In 2008, [Name Redacted for Privacy] pled guilty to obscenity and [CENSORED] porn charges after buying a comic book featuring pornographic manga. He was sentenced to 6 months in jail, but was not required to register as a sex offender. He had been facing up to 15 years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.

*removes the second pair and places back on her first*

According to this, Lolicon is... not legal in the United States. And it took me about 15 seconds to find this.

There needs to be stricter enforcement then, given users here.

Cause simply owning it isn't illegal unless it falls under several rules. Namely it needs to be overly obscene/lacking in serious value, AND if it was transmitted/shipped/etc, or there are indications the person owning it intends to distribute or sell.

[ุ]

There's also state laws that unfortunately say that it has to be an ACTUAL child depicted, so art drawn of an actual child, not an imaginary/anime character. Like in Cali.

I'm all fort removing the lewding of minors, however...state vs federal laws, federal laws not being 100% clear/efficient, etc.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por sungoddess14:

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Steam is cracking down on games that have potential minors in sexual situations, however "Lolicon" (the sexualization of underaged animated girls) is still legal in US law, protected by art/public expression laws as of current.

*Takes off glasses, puts on a different pair and reads from an excerpt*

In the United States, federal law prohibits the possession of [CENSORED] Pornography. After the passage of Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to end the Exploitation of Children Today, also known as the PROTECT Act of 2003, [CENSORED] pornography includes any obscene images that appear to depict and identifiable minor.

The PROTECT Act was passed in the aftermath of a Supreme Court case that had held that completely virtual [CENSORED] pornography was protected under the First Amendment as long as it is not obscene. A key component of this ruling was that because the pornography was not a visual depiction of an actual [CENSORED], it was a victimless crime.

After this case, Congress passed the PROTECT Act to prohibit virtual [CENSORED] pornography that was obscene and that was transmitted through a common carrier(like the internet, hint hint), transported across state lines, or of an amount that indicates an intent to distribute.

At least one person has been charged in the U.S. with possessing pornographic material transported in interstate commerce under the PROTECT Act. In 2008, [Name Redacted for Privacy] pled guilty to obscenity and [CENSORED] porn charges after buying a comic book featuring pornographic manga. He was sentenced to 6 months in jail, but was not required to register as a sex offender. He had been facing up to 15 years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.

*removes the second pair and places back on her first*

According to this, Lolicon is... not legal in the United States. And it took me about 15 seconds to find this.

The PROTECT Act was largely dismantled and deemed unconstitutional.

[Sleepy Yoshi]

Valve already works to remove sexually explicit material that involves characters they deem as minors. Things do slip through the cracks, especially given that Valve largely relies on users to report user content, but they certainly have made an effort to prevent it as evidenced by the "why was this visual novel ban or denied" threads that pop up on a regular basis.

[shado]

get rid of children? you first, OP.

[Crazy Tiger]

What about lollipops? Are those still ok?

[Amaterasu]

Publicado originalmente por shado:

get rid of children? you first, OP.

I'm in my mid-30s, dear.

[Brian9824]

Why should anyone get rid of any content just because one person doesn't like it? If its not illegal then no one has the right to tell others what they can or can't enjoy. People need to just be adults and if you don't like it then don't play it.

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Why should anyone get rid of any content just because one person doesn't like it? If its not illegal then no one has the right to tell others what they can or can't enjoy. People need to just be adults and if you don't like it then don't play it.

It is literally illegal in several countries where Steam operates.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Why should anyone get rid of any content just because one person doesn't like it? If its not illegal then no one has the right to tell others what they can or can't enjoy. People need to just be adults and if you don't like it then don't play it.

It is literally illegal in several countries where Steam operates.

Citation needed. If its illegal and its being sold in those countries then report it. If its actually illegal it will be dealt with. All too often what people THINK the laws say and what they actually say are two very different things

AFAIK there are overlaps where it can become obscene content, but that is true of ANY content. Its not the content itself, but the nuance of the content that determines if its illegal

[Seraphita]

Publicado originalmente por SlowMango:

Publicado originalmente por Pipe:

hey so help me understand. what do you want to ban in specific? video games? artworks?

Anything they are classifying as lolicon. They even cited a badge because it refers to the owner as a lolicon even though it has no explicit imagery.

They mean badges like mine, even though it's harmless. I've had it for a while. I just really find amusing that it's there on steam but honestly, yeah. It's harmless. Just like loli.

OP is a little too obsessed about this. They forget the difference between reality and fiction and what is concerning here is that they think one is the same as the other. Eh...

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

It is literally illegal in several countries where Steam operates.

Citation needed. If its illegal and its being sold in those countries then report it. If its actually illegal it will be dealt with. All too often what people THINK the laws say and what they actually say are two very different things

AFAIK there are overlaps where it can become obscene content, but that is true of ANY content. Its not the content itself, but the nuance of the content that determines if its illegal

Here is a list of countries where it is illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_pornography_depicting_minors

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Citation needed. If its illegal and its being sold in those countries then report it. If its actually illegal it will be dealt with. All too often what people THINK the laws say and what they actually say are two very different things

AFAIK there are overlaps where it can become obscene content, but that is true of ANY content. Its not the content itself, but the nuance of the content that determines if its illegal

Here is a list of countries where it is illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_pornography_depicting_minors

Which what has been cited in this thread isn't pornography.

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por SlowMango:

Publicado originalmente por Ben Lubar:

Here is a list of countries where it is illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_pornography_depicting_minors

Which what has been cited in this thread isn't pornography.

That article was found from a direct link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon#Legality_and_censorship

It is pornography and it does depict fictional children. That part isn't up for debate.