Get rid of Lolis and Lolicons

[Amaterasu]

I know that I'm opening a hell of a can of worms, I know that a lot of people are going to come out of the wood works and try to defend it and all. I know that I'm gonna get accused of being a closeted lolicon(I'm not, I don't even like kids in general). But it's something I've been feeling has been needed to be said for a long while.

Loli is an art style that took hold in Japan after a book known as the Lolita Complex, which was a book about someone wanting to [CENSORED] a child was released there. It became a viral hit and spawned the Lolita style, which in and of itself is just Victorian England dress turned up to 11. But... it also normalized the idea that it was okay for people to be attracted to kids. Yes, literal kids.

Japan didn't have laws against any sort of [CENSORED] until 2014, which it was finally made illegal and they gave people an entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ year to get rid of it. And even so, they still try to [CENSORED] children in animation and manga. Yes, really, this is a thing that still happens. Yes, that's what the entire art style of Loli is actually about. If it was supposed to be cute, it'd be Kawaii. If it was supposed to be childlike it'd be Chibi. If it was supposed to be a normal child, it'd just be a child. Yes, there are actual terms for every type of defense that people make.

Also the "800 year old Vampire" defense is just the "Legal" Loli defense. They're still coded to be a child. It's still wrong. And according to laws in the US at least having Loli material and being a Lolicon(Which derives from Lolita Complex, you know, that book which someone wanted to [CENSORED] a kid. Yeah, you can get an idea of what they're really about. It's not about cute things, it's about kids)... is illegal and falls under the definition of simulated [CENSORED].

And to counter the, "It's just a fantasy" defense... why specifically the childlike character? Why specifically them? There are plenty of adult coded people in anime, manga, and games. Plenty of them, such as Tae Takemi from Persona 5(Early 20s, looks it), Nami from One Piece(18 pre-time skip, 20 post. Looks it), wanna go with short and cute? Shiori Katase from My Tiny Senpai(In her 20s, looks it), want flat? Ms. Kobayashi from Ms. Kobayashi's Dragon Maid(At least 20s, looks it), Zebiantes from Chillin in my 30s after getting Fired from the Demon Lord's Army(Unknown, looks and acts like an adult), Hana Uzaki from Uzaki-chan wants to hang out(College student, looks it). Why not any of those examples or more? Because it's not about a petite woman. It's about the fact the character is coded as a child and it's being used in place of materials that more overtly known as being illegal, but as I said before, Loli material still counts in the same boat under US Law.

As such, I believe Steam should rid itself of these things. Give this kind of thing one less platform of legitimacy. And that it should very much be a ban on sight kind of thing.

P.S. Not relevant, but I don't watch One Piece, I have a dislike of Shounen Anime, especially Battle Shonen, I just know Nami because my little brother is a Shounenhead. SEINEN FOR LIFE! Also all the [CENSORED] was so that someone couldn't just report this to the mods and get it taken down.

Edit: Thanks for the points.

[Amaterasu]

Just woke up and I already get to use my japanese lessons. First off, the proper word for young girl in Japanese is Shōjo. Shōnen and Shōjos aren't genres, they're demographics. There is a difference.

Second off, Loli, Lolita, and Lolicon, are loan words and thus use Katakana. Lolicon would be ロリコン or rorikon. Loli would ロリ and Lolita would be ロリタ. To teach a bit of Japanese ロ = ro, リ = ri, コ = ko, ン = n, and タ = ta.

Third off, you would not go up to a young girl in Japan and call them ロリ. Depending on if you wanted to be more formal or not, you would say either 女の子 (Onna no ko), 少女(Yes, Shōjo), or if they were between certain ages(8 to 18), 女子 (Joshi). If you wanted to be incredibly informal, you would say お姉さん (Onēsan), which means older sister, but is used for younger girls by people who are older than them.

So no, 少女 isn't a genre and ロリ is not something you'd call a little girl.

[Boblin the Goblin]

sungoddess14 の投稿を引用：

Just woke up and I already get to use my japanese lessons. First off, the proper word for young girl in Japanese is Shōjo. Shōnen and Shōjos aren't genres, they're demographics. There is a difference.

Second off, Loli, Lolita, and Lolicon, are loan words and thus use Katakana. Lolicon would be ロリコン or rorikon. Loli would ロリ and Lolita would be ロリタ. To teach a bit of Japanese ロ = ro, リ = ri, コ = ko, ン = n, and タ = ta.

Third off, you would not go up to a young girl in Japan and call them ロリ. Depending on if you wanted to be more formal or not, you would say either 女の子 (Onna no ko), 少女(Yes, Shōjo), or if they were between certain ages(8 to 18), 女子 (Joshi). If you wanted to be incredibly informal, you would say お姉さん (Onēsan), which means older sister, but is used for younger girls by people who are older than them.

So no, 少女 isn't a genre and ロリ is not something you'd call a little girl. :SpadeSmug:

So this means you know that loli and lolicon are not direct references to pedophilia but said so for the sake of your post?

Well, that solves that.

[Amaterasu]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

sungoddess14 の投稿を引用：

Just woke up and I already get to use my japanese lessons. First off, the proper word for young girl in Japanese is Shōjo. Shōnen and Shōjos aren't genres, they're demographics. There is a difference.

Second off, Loli, Lolita, and Lolicon, are loan words and thus use Katakana. Lolicon would be ロリコン or rorikon. Loli would ロリ and Lolita would be ロリタ. To teach a bit of Japanese ロ = ro, リ = ri, コ = ko, ン = n, and タ = ta.

Third off, you would not go up to a young girl in Japan and call them ロリ. Depending on if you wanted to be more formal or not, you would say either 女の子 (Onna no ko), 少女(Yes, Shōjo), or if they were between certain ages(8 to 18), 女子 (Joshi). If you wanted to be incredibly informal, you would say お姉さん (Onēsan), which means older sister, but is used for younger girls by people who are older than them.

So no, 少女 isn't a genre and ロリ is not something you'd call a little girl.

So this means you know that loli and lolicon are not direct references to pedophilia but said so for the sake of your post?

Well, that solves that.

Sasori already explained it, I've already explained it. Others have already explained it. It is a reference to pedophilia. All that I said is that you would not go up to a little girl and say that they are a ロリ. It would be seen as incredibly disrespectful, and calling them a ロリコン would be extremely disrespectful or even get you busted for sexual harassment of a child.

My entire argument was that there are terms in Japanese that do translate to little girl, things you would call a young girl and one of those is 少女.

[eram]

as already stated the owners of the store get to pick what they want on it. if you dont like it stop looking. block it and move on.

[Boblin the Goblin]

sungoddess14 の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

So this means you know that loli and lolicon are not direct references to pedophilia but said so for the sake of your post?

Well, that solves that.

Sasori already explained it, I've already explained it. Others have already explained it. It is a reference to pedophilia. All that I said is that you would not go up to a little girl and say that they are a ロリ. It would be seen as incredibly disrespectful, and calling them a ロリコン would be extremely disrespectful or even get you busted for sexual harassment of a child.

My entire argument was that there are terms in Japanese that do translate to little girl, things you would call a young girl and one of those is 少女.

As shown, it does no always reference something sexual.

Being disrespectful is a cultural thing. Does not mean it's sexual.

[Amaterasu]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

sungoddess14 の投稿を引用：

Sasori already explained it, I've already explained it. Others have already explained it. It is a reference to pedophilia. All that I said is that you would not go up to a little girl and say that they are a ロリ. It would be seen as incredibly disrespectful, and calling them a ロリコン would be extremely disrespectful or even get you busted for sexual harassment of a child.

My entire argument was that there are terms in Japanese that do translate to little girl, things you would call a young girl and one of those is 少女.

As shown, it does no always reference something sexual.

Being disrespectful is a cultural thing. Does not mean it's sexual.

As I stated before ロリコン comes from the book, The Lolita Complex, in which a grown man wanted to sleep with a 12 year old girl. By the literal definition of ロリコン, it is material that shows young girls in extremely suggestive to explicit scenes targeted towards grown men, specifically around the same age as the main character of the book, who was in his 30s. Meaning by definition it is pedophilic material.

[eram]

are you trying to buy it on steam or you dont want to see it?

[Amaterasu]

eram の投稿を引用：

are you trying to buy it on steam or you dont want to see it?

I want it off steam as a whole.

[eram]

so why after all these posts have you not block it on steam? you like to see it?

[Amaterasu]

eram の投稿を引用：

so why after all these posts have you not block it on steam? you like to see it?

I block it when Steam throws it at me. I block people who out themselves as Lolicons.

[eram]

sungoddess14 の投稿を引用：

eram の投稿を引用：

so why after all these posts have you not block it on steam? you like to see it?

I block it when Steam throws it at me. I block people who out themselves as Lolicons.

you can block all of it in 1 go you dont have to on a per title basis.

[The Commendatore]

eram の投稿を引用：

sungoddess14 の投稿を引用：

I block it when Steam throws it at me. I block people who out themselves as Lolicons.

you can block all of it in 1 go you dont have to on a per title basis.

OP doesn't really care. Their first shtick was moderation, now the flavour of the week is lolicon... up next? Who knows.

[Amaterasu]

The Commendatore の投稿を引用：

eram の投稿を引用：

you can block all of it in 1 go you dont have to on a per title basis.

OP doesn't really care. Their first shtick was moderation, now the flavour of the week is lolicon... up next? Who knows.

Hey look, a deflection.

Besides, I've figured out that I can add custom tags that steam doesn't have on it thanks to eram. So... so much for me not caring, I guess.

[76561199559798421]

chances are all those games and adult content is enjoyed by many of steams employee's and its customers, its a money maker for them, it has zero place belonging on the platform but its here because they can profit off it.

id have to agree, almost all of the adult content on steam should be removed for the sake of the platforms "woke" and non offensive disclosure of a platform that welcomes underage children to participate.

there is just no reason to believe that a age filter would stop a underage "child" even is they are 13 from accessing adult content and or showing it to even younger people who are in the household.

already there are several threads about offended parents who removed the filter for some violent games which resulted in steams adult content being shown on the steam store.

steam isn't a porn industry and should really get out of the porn game selling.

[lilcoffeebean]

Personally I spent about a decade in Japan and I can say I've honestly never heard shoujo or shounen used to address an individual child. It may happen, as I obviously was not privy to every conversation that occurred in the country, but there are already a number of terms that fill these roles that see common usage so I'm a bit skeptical.

Both are used outside of demographics and/or a literary sense though. Shounen-dan is quite the common term for young boys groups, sporting or otherwise. It's also used extensively in the legal sense to mean juvenile regardless of gender. Shoujo I've seen in written form, but I've not heard it used outside of demographics otherwise. This doesn't really matter though, because it is true that referring to a real child as a loli would be frowned upon.

When it comes to the actual word though it's not really sexual. It's just a descriptor. Lolicon on the other hand very much was describing the sexual attraction to loli's at it's onset. Colloquially the usage seems to have shifted some, where the attraction is still very much a part of it, but not necessarily a sexual attraction. There are arguably better terms that could be used for that though over co-opting a term centered on sexually explicit images of children even if fictional. I've always found the "but its fictional" defense a bit odd when it comes to R18 lolicon material, because there's still something about the characterization of a child that is found sexually appealing...and I just can't wrap my head around the attraction itself or why that would be ok.

For Valve's role, I don't think they should enforce my own morality, but they should air on the side of caution and naturally follow the law when it comes to sexual content depicting minors.