Add BitTorrent P2P download of games with friends share only
Hello,

This topic have probably been discussed already but since i haven't found any real answer to my current situation I'm proposing this idea again to avoid my internet peering issue.

I'm living in France, my internet speed can reach 8 gbps since about 5 year now in those 5 years I have always had max of 2 - 3 Gbps with Steam, my ISP name is "Free" depending on which European server I chose which is already pretty nice. I'm wondering if it is possible to have more comfort with downloading my content on steam and try to reach the max output my internet connection can.

I've seen post saying that steam can saturate any connections but as of today my ISP is either capping my download at those said 2-3 Gbps with steam servers or the steam servers in France at least can't handle those speed of 8 Gbps either way a solution to my problem could be P2P since in France upload speed can also go up to 8 Gbps and therefore fix those limitation or cost issues steam could have... Also since I heard that steam didn't implement this cause of security issue maybe limit the feature to only your friends from friendlist could be nice no ? What do you guys think ?

Also just to be sure the issue with my download speed is not related to my computer I've already done plenty of test it's not an antivirus issue, not an nvme issue, not a PC issue overall I cap the 8gbps depending on what hours i download in p2p already so it's 100% peering issue.
< >
Beiträge 115 von 15
"Can reach" does not mean it will reach that consistently or stay that high.
The downloads are often compressed and encrypted. I very much doubt they want clear transmission of stuff, especially through software widely known to be used for illegal uses.

Download through Steam, as long as the connection & CPU can handle the load it will be saturated. You can also select different download servers.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
Add BitTorrent P2P download of games with friends share only

Hello,

This topic have probably been discussed already but since i haven't found any real answer to my current situation I'm proposing this idea again to avoid my internet peering issue.

I'm living in France, my internet speed can reach 8 gbps since about 5 year now in those 5 years I have always had max of 2 - 3 Gbps with Steam, my ISP name is "Free" depending on which European server I chose which is already pretty nice. I'm wondering if it is possible to have more comfort with downloading my content on steam and try to reach the max output my internet connection can.

I've seen post saying that steam can saturate any connections but as of today my ISP is either capping my download at those said 2-3 Gbps with steam servers or the steam servers in France at least can't handle those speed of 8 Gbps either way a solution to my problem could be P2P since in France upload speed can also go up to 8 Gbps and therefore fix those limitation or cost issues steam could have... Also since I heard that steam didn't implement this cause of security issue maybe limit the feature to only your friends from friendlist could be nice no ? What do you guys think ?

Also just to be sure the issue with my download speed is not related to my computer I've already done plenty of test it's not an antivirus issue, not an nvme issue, not a PC issue overall I cap the 8gbps depending on what hours i download in p2p already so it's 100% peering issue.

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/46BD-6BA8-B012-CE43

:winterbunny2023:
Satoru 12. Feb. 2024 um 17:42 
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1082209554

Steam can obliterate your connection

People keep insisting its steam

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150762353

I can pull 400mbps over a trans-Atlantic link from Germany

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3159686625

I can pull 500mbps over a trans-Atlantic link from Marseille France

You're going to have a hard time explaining how Steam magically can pull that over the Atlantic Ocean to the USA but somehow its steams fault you can't saturate your own connection
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Satoru:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1082209554

Steam can obliterate your connection

People keep insisting its steam

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150762353

I can pull 400mbps over a trans-Atlantic link from Germany

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3159686625

I can pull 500mbps over a trans-Atlantic link from Marseille France

You're going to have a hard time explaining how Steam magically can pull that over the Atlantic Ocean to the USA but somehow its steams fault you can't saturate your own connection
There's...literally a limiter in the download settings...
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mischievous Sly Succubus:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Satoru:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1082209554

Steam can obliterate your connection

People keep insisting its steam

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150762353

I can pull 400mbps over a trans-Atlantic link from Germany

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3159686625

I can pull 500mbps over a trans-Atlantic link from Marseille France

You're going to have a hard time explaining how Steam magically can pull that over the Atlantic Ocean to the USA but somehow its steams fault you can't saturate your own connection
There's...literally a limiter in the download settings...

Sure, a setting the user must enable that is off by default.

Valve themselves don't auto limit downloads.

:winterbunny2023:
[N]ebsun 12. Feb. 2024 um 23:33 
It's most likely disk or CPU limiting the overall speed - even if your internet connection is very fast, you still need to decompress the download with disk and cpu
MAXE 13. Feb. 2024 um 0:12 
500 mbps is only 62,5 mb/s, wich is half of what is given to the public, around 125 mb/s is what is 100% supported to the public ... we can pull 1250 mb/s from a highspeed server here in Denmark ! :steamlaughcry:

The global ISP´s is the problem, because highspeed connections with optic fiber can pull around 319 terabits pr sec over 1800 miles .. that is the world record !

So it is the greedy isp money shark´s that is the problem and not your connection if you are on fiber connections ! :steamlaughcry:

If isp´s want to be Green when it comes to energy, then they should remove the limits on the internet connections for normal users .. because normal users dont download like crazy unless their running a Bit torrent service or some like that from their homes !

So if ISP´s want to have less bills and better energy savings, then the internet companies should open up their connection and offer unlimited speeds for regular daily download use and only put the restrictions on streaming services such as TV shows, download services that can be abused and the like !

It will make the servers relax more because the time it will run will be lowered if it can transmit the data in a shorter time to the user ..

So lets say a server gets 1000000 request daily for download 10 gigabyte pr user .. with 319 terabit pr sec transmite to the users .. ? then the server could relax the next 23 hours and 50 mins and save energy the rest of the day ..

But that is not how the internet service providers think and that is what cost alot of energy !

Money cost energy and energy cost the life of this planet in the long end ..

so stop killing the planet by not being a cash hungry shark !

rofl this is a topic for the greenpeace folks for sure, maybe they can push to help us get better internet connections and at the same time save energy on it :steamlaughcry:

Zuletzt bearbeitet von MAXE; 13. Feb. 2024 um 0:35
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/2650881941764955398/

Idea is not new. Why it won't work:
* Not everyone has unlimited bandwidth
* Not everyone has a dedicated IPv4 address (necessary for direct connections)
* Publishers might find the idea abhorrent because licenses aren't strictly checked before access
* Privacy lawyers might not be amused because such a feature has to circumvent profile privacy and game hiding settings
* If your ISP is stingy, BitTorrent WILL make it worse
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Ettanin; 13. Feb. 2024 um 5:43
P2P Torrent with "Friends" ... xD doesnt sound like "Warez" and "Trojan" at all ..
Zuletzt bearbeitet von N3tRunn3r; 13. Feb. 2024 um 5:36
Zazu 13. Feb. 2024 um 11:56 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von SlowMango:
"Can reach" does not mean it will reach that consistently or stay that high.

I know about that but P2P might help getting it consistent instead of going through dedicated servers that are not optimised for 8 Gbps output or for my ISP link with steam getting bottle necked by one of them (peering issue).


Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mad Scientist:
The downloads are often compressed and encrypted. I very much doubt they want clear transmission of stuff, especially through software widely known to be used for illegal uses.

Download through Steam, as long as the connection & CPU can handle the load it will be saturated. You can also select different download servers.

Well downloads are encrypted and compressed through dedicated server download from there different region why not leaving it as it is and download the encrypted file through P2P instead ?

I said "try to reach the max output my internet" which is currently 8 Gbps why not try to getting it to 6-7 Gbps with Bittorent protocol ?



Ursprünglich geschrieben von Satoru:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1082209554

Steam can obliterate your connection

People keep insisting its steam

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150762353

I can pull 400mbps over a trans-Atlantic link from Germany

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3159686625

I can pull 500mbps over a trans-Atlantic link from Marseille France

You're going to have a hard time explaining how Steam magically can pull that over the Atlantic Ocean to the USA but somehow its steams fault you can't saturate your own connection

HAHAHAHA nice unfortunately some of you still don't understand what a ISP peering problem is i guess, bringing screenshots thinking they know more alala :( but i'm talking in GBPS , READ IT WELL THIS TIME PLEASE " G I G A B Y T E " , you don't believe me when i say i usually get around 2-3 Gbps and that my max speed is around 8 Gbps Up and Down ?

good for you , you can get 500 Mbps abroad but as i said my max speed is around 8000 Mbps, look for yourself :

1- Speedtest : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3160153670

2- Local 10 Gbps Speed with NVME : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3160153004

3- Steam download speed 2-3 Gbps : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3160154359

4- Battle net launcher speed test : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3160151599

I know i have probably a lot more than most of you, and my point here is to only point out my peering problem so please stop with "steam saturate any ISP blablabla" the problem is either MY ISP INFRASTRUCTURE WITH STEAM or STEAM simple.





Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nebsun:
It's most likely disk or CPU limiting the overall speed - even if your internet connection is very fast, you still need to decompress the download with disk and cpu

Nop, not hardware problem look my pic for local internet test it's reaching max of my 10 Gbps SFP+ card.



Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ettanin:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/2650881941764955398/

Idea is not new. Why it won't work:
* Not everyone has unlimited bandwidth
* Not everyone has a dedicated IPv4 address (necessary for direct connections)
* Publishers might find the idea abhorrent because licenses aren't strictly checked before access
* Privacy lawyers might not be amused because such a feature has to circumvent profile privacy and game hiding settings
* If your ISP is stingy, BitTorrent WILL make it worse

Meh i'm not asking to make the feature available to everyone, why not letting us the choice to enable it or disable it ? the game is compressed and encrypted over the download why you bother with privacy stuff ?
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I know about that but P2P might help getting it consistent instead of going through dedicated servers that are not optimised for 8 Gbps output or for my ISP link with steam getting bottle necked by one of them (peering issue).
Any inconsistency not related to CPU I/O and Disk will likely still happen with that, and that relies on other users in order to even do anything consistently unlike dedicated hosting.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
Well downloads are encrypted and compressed through dedicated server download from there different region why not leaving it as it is and download the encrypted file through P2P instead ?
What they control has in mind to check for license status and to deliver to people with a license or that are authorized via family share. That type of networking & client are heavily used for illegitimate purposes & may cause automatic ISP flagging & even cancellations of service.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I said "try to reach the max output my internet" which is currently 8 Gbps why not try to getting it to 6-7 Gbps with Bittorent protocol ?
What you can reach on Steam again may be limited by your systems ability to handle compression/encryption or that all you may need to do is select a different download region that is less busy.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I know i have probably a lot more than most of you, and my point here is to only point out my peering problem so please stop with "steam saturate any ISP blablabla" the problem is either MY ISP INFRASTRUCTURE WITH STEAM or STEAM simple.
did you try another download region or check the portion of the client people were mentioning? How about CPU usage? If the disk is being capped out? etc. They can deliver to your capacity. An ISP infrastructure or restriction to anything inbetween you and the download location can cap you, just because your ISP has a max speed, doesn't mean everyone on the way is going to let you achieve that.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nebsun:
It's most likely disk or CPU limiting the overall speed - even if your internet connection is very fast, you still need to decompress the download with disk and cpu

Nop, not hardware problem look my pic for local internet test it's reaching max of my 10 Gbps SFP+ card.
Synthetic tests do not stress the same parts nor do the same things as the real-world loads. Internet test is just that, it does NOT do the same things.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
Meh i'm not asking to make the feature available to everyone, why not letting us the choice to enable it or disable it ? the game is compressed and encrypted over the download why you bother with privacy stuff ?
I very much doubt they want anything to do with a type of networking & a client almost exclusively used for illegitimate & illegal purposes.

Some game devs do that for initial game downloads as an option, or for patches - but think how huge Steam is for just what they offer, and all the related communications of their service;
https://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/
Zazu 17. Feb. 2024 um 0:06 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mad Scientist:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I know about that but P2P might help getting it consistent instead of going through dedicated servers that are not optimised for 8 Gbps output or for my ISP link with steam getting bottle necked by one of them (peering issue).
Any inconsistency not related to CPU I/O and Disk will likely still happen with that, and that relies on other users in order to even do anything consistently unlike dedicated hosting.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
Well downloads are encrypted and compressed through dedicated server download from there different region why not leaving it as it is and download the encrypted file through P2P instead ?
What they control has in mind to check for license status and to deliver to people with a license or that are authorized via family share. That type of networking & client are heavily used for illegitimate purposes & may cause automatic ISP flagging & even cancellations of service.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I said "try to reach the max output my internet" which is currently 8 Gbps why not try to getting it to 6-7 Gbps with Bittorent protocol ?
What you can reach on Steam again may be limited by your systems ability to handle compression/encryption or that all you may need to do is select a different download region that is less busy.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I know i have probably a lot more than most of you, and my point here is to only point out my peering problem so please stop with "steam saturate any ISP blablabla" the problem is either MY ISP INFRASTRUCTURE WITH STEAM or STEAM simple.
did you try another download region or check the portion of the client people were mentioning? How about CPU usage? If the disk is being capped out? etc. They can deliver to your capacity. An ISP infrastructure or restriction to anything inbetween you and the download location can cap you, just because your ISP has a max speed, doesn't mean everyone on the way is going to let you achieve that.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:


Nop, not hardware problem look my pic for local internet test it's reaching max of my 10 Gbps SFP+ card.
Synthetic tests do not stress the same parts nor do the same things as the real-world loads. Internet test is just that, it does NOT do the same things.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
Meh i'm not asking to make the feature available to everyone, why not letting us the choice to enable it or disable it ? the game is compressed and encrypted over the download why you bother with privacy stuff ?
I very much doubt they want anything to do with a type of networking & a client almost exclusively used for illegitimate & illegal purposes.

Some game devs do that for initial game downloads as an option, or for patches - but think how huge Steam is for just what they offer, and all the related communications of their service;
https://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/









Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mad Scientist:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I know about that but P2P might help getting it consistent instead of going through dedicated servers that are not optimised for 8 Gbps output or for my ISP link with steam getting bottle necked by one of them (peering issue).
Any inconsistency not related to CPU I/O and Disk will likely still happen with that, and that relies on other users in order to even do anything consistently unlike dedicated hosting.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
Well downloads are encrypted and compressed through dedicated server download from there different region why not leaving it as it is and download the encrypted file through P2P instead ?
What they control has in mind to check for license status and to deliver to people with a license or that are authorized via family share. That type of networking & client are heavily used for illegitimate purposes & may cause automatic ISP flagging & even cancellations of service.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I said "try to reach the max output my internet" which is currently 8 Gbps why not try to getting it to 6-7 Gbps with Bittorent protocol ?
What you can reach on Steam again may be limited by your systems ability to handle compression/encryption or that all you may need to do is select a different download region that is less busy.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
I know i have probably a lot more than most of you, and my point here is to only point out my peering problem so please stop with "steam saturate any ISP blablabla" the problem is either MY ISP INFRASTRUCTURE WITH STEAM or STEAM simple.
did you try another download region or check the portion of the client people were mentioning? How about CPU usage? If the disk is being capped out? etc. They can deliver to your capacity. An ISP infrastructure or restriction to anything inbetween you and the download location can cap you, just because your ISP has a max speed, doesn't mean everyone on the way is going to let you achieve that.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:


Nop, not hardware problem look my pic for local internet test it's reaching max of my 10 Gbps SFP+ card.
Synthetic tests do not stress the same parts nor do the same things as the real-world loads. Internet test is just that, it does NOT do the same things.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zazu:
Meh i'm not asking to make the feature available to everyone, why not letting us the choice to enable it or disable it ? the game is compressed and encrypted over the download why you bother with privacy stuff ?
I very much doubt they want anything to do with a type of networking & a client almost exclusively used for illegitimate & illegal purposes.

Some game devs do that for initial game downloads as an option, or for patches - but think how huge Steam is for just what they offer, and all the related communications of their service;
https://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/




Thank you for taking time for answering :),

it's not related to my pc specs 3 Gbps is handled fine, what is weird is i'm capped around 3 Gbps most of the time depending on what hour i download and what european server i choose :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3162333981

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3162336607

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3162337563

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3162338301


So for me it's most likely an ISP infrastructure peering problem between Steam or Steam capping it i don't know...

You say :

"What they control has in mind to check for license status and to deliver to people with a license or that are authorized via family share. That type of networking & client are heavily used for illegitimate purposes & may cause automatic ISP flagging & even cancellations of service."

Well for some countries, it might be limited with ISP flagging but there are a lot of other countries that are not, that's why i said it should be an option to enable.

Anyway ok i get that license problems could be a security issue, but still it's just an excuse from Steam or any other downloading launcher to not add the feature, i swear they just need to think about it around a table and that's it.

I'm pretty sure you could do something like letting us the choice to enable the integration of a hybrid approach, in steam option, that combines both dedicated server downloads and peer-to-peer (P2P) technology to enhance download speed and distribution efficiency while addressing security concerns.

Like for example they could so something like :

1- Initial Download from Dedicated Servers:

The Users initiate the download process from Steam's dedicated servers, where they can obtain the initial files securely and reliably. This ensures that users have access to authentic and verified game content or any other security related stuff, or even other chunk part of the game


2- At same time, Do an P2P social Expansion for faster Distribution :

Once the initial download is underway, Steam could leverage P2P technology to supplement the distribution process, with only your trusted friends.
The trusted friends, that have partially downloaded the game can act as peers and share portions of the downloaded content with others who are in the process of downloading the same game. Same as we would do in the local share option.

By redistributing the load across multiple trusted users we chose ourselves, this P2P "social technology" can in the end help alleviate strain on Steam's servers and accelerate download speeds, especially for popular or large-sized games. Even for patches lol.


So at last, the end user will have to download at same time some files from dedicated server that are already encrypted and download also files from P2P that are encrypted, Steam software will do the rest with assembling, uncompressing the parts, veryfying integrity of files, unencryption etc...or something close to that at least since i don't really know exactly how files are processed when downloaded by Steam,
However the only downside here could be that we could be CPU limited depending on how things are done simultaneously but at least the load on network could be much more efficient depending on how many users uses it.
I get the same download speed on all PC Client/Store excluding Epic, account deleted.

I can download a game i have on both Steam and GOG Galaxy in the same time with only a very slight variance. Neverwinter Nights Enhanced Edition is one example.

Secondly using a Speedtest has zero relevance because it is only checking your internet connection and shows you the max possible speed you can get but we all know ISP's have being known to lie to attract customers.

And finally that green vertical line on the Steam download screenshots is DISK ACTIVITY showing highs, lows and variance, known as decompressing and moving files to the install area from the download area, hence why the download speed drops.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Nx Machina; 17. Feb. 2024 um 2:28
< >
Beiträge 115 von 15
Pro Seite: 1530 50

Geschrieben am: 12. Feb. 2024 um 17:26
Beiträge: 15