Come up with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way to permanently remove cheaters

[76561197963519852]

Stop double dipping, wink, nod, smile, and letting them play on account after ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ account

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ban them

Figure it the ♥♥♥♥ out

[Reuben]

KalCuey の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

We're not talking about HWID, this is product serial numbers instead.

anything info you try and use to lock someone out can and will be spoofed

it took no time at all for someone to get around the hwid

why would it be different with a different id?

unless you get into those draconian methods i mentioned

It's no more draconian than a server verifying the authenticity of a cd-key before it's redeemed.

Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

You say only available on stickers, yet the serial number printed on the sticker of my RAM is the same serial number reported to the OS.

None of my memory nor the memory made by the manufacturer I worked for ever programmed the serial number.

In fact the current RAM has no listings for a serial number, but it is present on the sticks and the box, just like most hardware I buy from various manufacturers.

I think you're trying to make something mandatory that is hardly used, due to not understanding the industry nor information from people that worked for hardware manufacturers.

If you're not in the know, then it's best not to believe something that's inaccurate nor attempt to suggest using something hardly adopted for an anticheat when that can almost never be checked by it due to it not existing in programmed form. Serial Numbers are often exclusively stickered on boxes/containers and the product, with internal information in regard to batch #, date/range/year of manufacturing etc that only the company can see.

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Just make it an industry standard to do this (alongside checking if the serial number is valid like a cd-key)

It's not likely to ever become a standard to program such into hardware. The sticker & database method has been viable for decades.

Try coming up with a viable anticheat solution, because that's not going to happen & thus it's not going to work.

Reuben の投稿を引用：

which is easier said than done, so binding your account to a passport for use when connecting to VAC secured servers would be simpler and achieve the same result of removing smurfs and repeat cheating offenders, whilst keeping the same anti-cheat solution without kernel access to support Linux users.

Many countries have entire laws around data collection, so this would be illegal in many countries.

Anyone that wants to do "Papers, please (or else)" should take a lesson in history; you should never be required to present a passport for luxury entertainment or unimportant things, that's for international travel purposes so people can make sure you're not a criminal/not wanted or are verified/able to travel abroad.

If you want a viable solution, you need to come up with one that can actually work, isn't easily defeated & doesn't violate national and/or international laws.

The most viable solution is to go after the individuals that make & distribute such, which usually acts as a deterrent for others.

Things become industry standard all the time, the majority of companies only printing device IDs on stickers won't be viable in the future because of the advancement and adoption of IoT.

As for Passports, many countries (such as the UK) have GDPR-esque regulation but also regulation that requires a government issued ID as well as selfie verification (KYC and AML policies) in order to open an account to a bank, an account that stores your data or an account for trading platforms. For privacy concerns (even though it's information that you divulge everyday by using it and it's far better than kernel-level anti-cheat or free VOIP software that can access your rich data), there are plenty of accredited services that provide this level of verification without exposing it to the company that's requesting the verification. Here's a few examples of companies that I've come across that require your passport in order to operate an account: Sony, Naver, Coinbase, Binance, Uphold, Monzo, Starling, Kroo, Clash, Ramp, Transak and Moonpay, etc.

For the sake of the argument, let's say a country doesn't provide legal framework to use a Passport for means of verification, most countries still have a method of KYC and AML and that's all what Valve needs to implement on the Steam platform for use when connecting to a VAC secured server or using the marketplace, you'll quickly get rid of scammers, smurfs and cheaters (legitimate bot, company or pentesting accounts would need to be authorised and would have limitations that a regular account wouldn't have).

[Mad Scientist]

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Things become industry standard all the time, the majority of companies only printing device IDs on stickers won't be viable in the future because of the advancement and adoption of IoT.

I can safely speak for many hardware manufacturers when I nitebtheure not going to make that kind of change because someone thinks it'd reduce cheating in games.

Reuben の投稿を引用：

As for Passports

This again comes down to "Papers, please" , let's not encourage such things to annoy the majority of players for the few cheater groups.

Its best to go after the people that disrupt the services by making such programs, to make an example for the rest. If you get the companies and agencies to go after them for making such, it would drop sharply.

[KalGimpa]

Reuben の投稿を引用：

KalCuey の投稿を引用：

anything info you try and use to lock someone out can and will be spoofed

it took no time at all for someone to get around the hwid

why would it be different with a different id?

unless you get into those draconian methods i mentioned

It's no more draconian than a server verifying the authenticity of a cd-key before it's redeemed.

Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：

None of my memory nor the memory made by the manufacturer I worked for ever programmed the serial number.

In fact the current RAM has no listings for a serial number, but it is present on the sticks and the box, just like most hardware I buy from various manufacturers.

I think you're trying to make something mandatory that is hardly used, due to not understanding the industry nor information from people that worked for hardware manufacturers.

If you're not in the know, then it's best not to believe something that's inaccurate nor attempt to suggest using something hardly adopted for an anticheat when that can almost never be checked by it due to it not existing in programmed form. Serial Numbers are often exclusively stickered on boxes/containers and the product, with internal information in regard to batch #, date/range/year of manufacturing etc that only the company can see.


It's not likely to ever become a standard to program such into hardware. The sticker & database method has been viable for decades.

Try coming up with a viable anticheat solution, because that's not going to happen & thus it's not going to work.


Many countries have entire laws around data collection, so this would be illegal in many countries.

Anyone that wants to do "Papers, please (or else)" should take a lesson in history; you should never be required to present a passport for luxury entertainment or unimportant things, that's for international travel purposes so people can make sure you're not a criminal/not wanted or are verified/able to travel abroad.

If you want a viable solution, you need to come up with one that can actually work, isn't easily defeated & doesn't violate national and/or international laws.

The most viable solution is to go after the individuals that make & distribute such, which usually acts as a deterrent for others.

Things become industry standard all the time, the majority of companies only printing device IDs on stickers won't be viable in the future because of the advancement and adoption of IoT.

As for Passports, many countries (such as the UK) have GDPR-esque regulation but also regulation that requires a government issued ID as well as selfie verification (KYC and AML policies) in order to open an account to a bank, an account that stores your data or an account for trading platforms. For privacy concerns (even though it's information that you divulge everyday by using it and it's far better than kernel-level anti-cheat or free VOIP software that can access your rich data), there are plenty of accredited services that provide this level of verification without exposing it to the company that's requesting the verification. Here's a few examples of companies that I've come across that require your passport in order to operate an account: Sony, Naver, Coinbase, Binance, Uphold, Monzo, Starling, Kroo, Clash, Ramp, Transak and Moonpay, etc.

For the sake of the argument, let's say a country doesn't provide legal framework to use a Passport for means of verification, most countries still have a method of KYC and AML and that's all what Valve needs to implement on the Steam platform for use when connecting to a VAC secured server or using the marketplace, you'll quickly get rid of scammers, smurfs and cheaters (legitimate bot, company or pentesting accounts would need to be authorised and would have limitations that a regular account wouldn't have).

you continue to ignore half of the question i ask

so

how do you stop people from spoofing the new id you want required?

as for ANY kind of real id to play a game

hell ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ no

[Reuben]

Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Things become industry standard all the time, the majority of companies only printing device IDs on stickers won't be viable in the future because of the advancement and adoption of IoT.

I can safely speak for many hardware manufacturers when I nitebtheure not going to make that kind of change because someone thinks it'd reduce cheating in games.

Reuben の投稿を引用：

As for Passports

This again comes down to "Papers, please" , let's not encourage such things to annoy the majority of players for the few cheater groups.

Its best to go after the people that disrupt the services by making such programs, to make an example for the rest. If you get the companies and agencies to go after them for making such, it would drop sharply.

Industry change does happen, I'm not saying they'd do that to combat cheats, I'm saying at some point stickers won't be enough for other things that eventually come around.

Uploading a few documents for verification is less hassle than dealing with millions of cheaters (people take gaming seriously nowadays) and going after cheat developers is a strategy that's failed for decades, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation.

KalCuey の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

It's no more draconian than a server verifying the authenticity of a cd-key before it's redeemed.

Things become industry standard all the time, the majority of companies only printing device IDs on stickers won't be viable in the future because of the advancement and adoption of IoT.

As for Passports, many countries (such as the UK) have GDPR-esque regulation but also regulation that requires a government issued ID as well as selfie verification (KYC and AML policies) in order to open an account to a bank, an account that stores your data or an account for trading platforms. For privacy concerns (even though it's information that you divulge everyday by using it and it's far better than kernel-level anti-cheat or free VOIP software that can access your rich data), there are plenty of accredited services that provide this level of verification without exposing it to the company that's requesting the verification. Here's a few examples of companies that I've come across that require your passport in order to operate an account: Sony, Naver, Coinbase, Binance, Uphold, Monzo, Starling, Kroo, Clash, Ramp, Transak and Moonpay, etc.

For the sake of the argument, let's say a country doesn't provide legal framework to use a Passport for means of verification, most countries still have a method of KYC and AML and that's all what Valve needs to implement on the Steam platform for use when connecting to a VAC secured server or using the marketplace, you'll quickly get rid of scammers, smurfs and cheaters (legitimate bot, company or pentesting accounts would need to be authorised and would have limitations that a regular account wouldn't have).

you continue to ignore half of the question i ask

so

how do you stop people from spoofing the new id you want required?

as for ANY kind of real id to play a game

hell ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ no

No I didn't, I said you'd have a way to verify component serial numbers much like how cd-keys are validated, this would need industry adoption however, so KYC and AML checks are a better solution.

[Ben Lubar]

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：

I can safely speak for many hardware manufacturers when I nitebtheure not going to make that kind of change because someone thinks it'd reduce cheating in games.


This again comes down to "Papers, please" , let's not encourage such things to annoy the majority of players for the few cheater groups.

Its best to go after the people that disrupt the services by making such programs, to make an example for the rest. If you get the companies and agencies to go after them for making such, it would drop sharply.

Industry change does happen, I'm not saying they'd do that to combat cheats, I'm saying at some point stickers won't be enough for other things that eventually come around.

Uploading a few documents for verification is less hassle than dealing with millions of cheaters and going after cheat developers is a strategy that's failed for decades otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation.

Okay, so you've taken a picture of your personal information and put it on the internet. What happens between then and cheating somehow being defeated forever? You seem to have left out quite a few steps.

[Reuben]

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Industry change does happen, I'm not saying they'd do that to combat cheats, I'm saying at some point stickers won't be enough for other things that eventually come around.

Uploading a few documents for verification is less hassle than dealing with millions of cheaters and going after cheat developers is a strategy that's failed for decades otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation.

Okay, so you've taken a picture of your personal information and put it on the internet. What happens between then and cheating somehow being defeated forever? You seem to have left out quite a few steps.

No I didn't, I mentioned it somewhere in this thread, you'd tie your government-issued ID to your Steam account, forever binding you to that account for personal use and only that personal account, once you've been banned for cheating or scamming then you can never use that part of Steam ever again because passport verification on another account won't work for you.

This method also solves the issue of trying to prove ownership of a lost account when other solutions fail.

[Ben Lubar]

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

Okay, so you've taken a picture of your personal information and put it on the internet. What happens between then and cheating somehow being defeated forever? You seem to have left out quite a few steps.

No I didn't, I mentioned it somewhere in this thread, you'd tie your government-issued ID to your Steam account, forever binding you to that account for personal use and only that personal account, once you've been banned for cheating or scamming then you can never use that part of Steam ever again because passport verification on another account won't work for you.

This method also solves the issue of trying to prove ownership of a lost account when other solutions fail.

Alright, how does Valve know if it's a valid government-issued ID? How does Valve do this in places where people don't have government-issued IDs? How does Valve do this in places where it is illegal to collect that kind of information? How does knowing whether someone is a citizen of a country stop them from cheating? What happens if the photos leak? What happens if someone uploads a photo of something that is not their government ID? What if someone (like me) does not have any device with a working camera?

[Reuben]

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

No I didn't, I mentioned it somewhere in this thread, you'd tie your government-issued ID to your Steam account, forever binding you to that account for personal use and only that personal account, once you've been banned for cheating or scamming then you can never use that part of Steam ever again because passport verification on another account won't work for you.

This method also solves the issue of trying to prove ownership of a lost account when other solutions fail.

Alright, how does Valve know if it's a valid government-issued ID? How does Valve do this in places where people don't have government-issued IDs? How does Valve do this in places where it is illegal to collect that kind of information? How does knowing whether someone is a citizen of a country stop them from cheating? What happens if the photos leak? What happens if someone uploads a photo of something that is not their government ID? What if someone (like me) does not have any device with a working camera?

I mentioned this too, there are accredited sophisticated third-party services that can verify the authenticity of documents that have been uploaded, people who can afford gaming PCs can afford government-issued ID and most countries have a method for KYC and AML (whether that's government-issued ID verification or something else).

[76561197960287930]

The Living Tribunal の投稿を引用：

76561197960287930 の投稿を引用：

We all know alt Steam accounts are dime a dozen, possibly phone numbers and payment methods too. (there is nothing permanent about evading VACs on alt Steam accounts)

I mean like how is it the cheat makers are doing it, getting banned and continuing to make and test cheats on multiple account after account? Maybe we can get @Sparkles on Youtube to interview some cheaters and cheat makers to let us know.

Ah the solution is to steal other people accounts maybe? This could be why Valve is so complicit with the chat spammers, posting url scam gift card sites day after day in chat rooms.

Check out Steam WorkShop chat room if you know how to get in. (web browser)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/766

No shortage of accounts trying to steal other Steam users accounts is there Valve?

Valve = no real solution to cheaters or cheat makers and alts.
Valve = no real solution to chat room url scammers, stealing inventory or accounts.
Valve = no real solution to fake or 100's of bot user reviews for CS2.

Come up with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way to permanently prevent these things. Or business as usual. As usual.

So in lieu of proof you went on an irrelevant rant....

Any other constructive criticism?

So lets do a you. In lieu of any proof or reasoning as to why these are not legitimate game or platform concerns that are seen day in and day out, if you look for them, you chose to make it about me, and gas lighting me, where as trying to make my claims seem or feel unstable, irrational and not credible, making them feel like what I'm seeing or experiencing or anyone else, isn't real, that they're making it up, that no one else will believe them.

GG!
To bad I don't have any Steam points for you. Valve loves people giving other people service incentives for bad behavior, don't they? Fake user reviews, pornography hidden behind content descriptors and filters.

No argument here Steam Support. No reason to delete comments or close threads. We're all getting along just fine.

You'd very much like to see me banned for sharing proof, of Steam chat invites to rooms with url scams daily or show you the 1000's of reported fake review, Valve has done nothing about? VAC is what 20 years old? And in that time what has changed with regards to cheat makers and cheaters continually returning into games, like it doesn't even exist? Nothing.

[Ben Lubar]

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

Alright, how does Valve know if it's a valid government-issued ID? How does Valve do this in places where people don't have government-issued IDs? How does Valve do this in places where it is illegal to collect that kind of information? How does knowing whether someone is a citizen of a country stop them from cheating? What happens if the photos leak? What happens if someone uploads a photo of something that is not their government ID? What if someone (like me) does not have any device with a working camera?

I mentioned this too, there are accredited sophisticated third-party services that can verify the authenticity of documents that have been uploaded, people who can afford gaming PCs can afford government-issued ID and most countries have a method for KYC and AML (wether that's government-issued ID verification or something else).

Alright, let's use an example from an obscure country like The United States of America.

Steam's minimum age is 13. A 13 year old also will likely not have a valid driver's license or voting ID because they are several years too young to use either of those. There are also laws against collecting personal information from minors. A 13 year old is a minor.

[Reuben]

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

I mentioned this too, there are accredited sophisticated third-party services that can verify the authenticity of documents that have been uploaded, people who can afford gaming PCs can afford government-issued ID and most countries have a method for KYC and AML (wether that's government-issued ID verification or something else).

Alright, let's use an example from an obscure country like The United States of America.

Steam's minimum age is 13. A 13 year old also will likely not have a valid driver's license or voting ID because they are several years too young to use either of those. There are also laws against collecting personal information from minors. A 13 year old is a minor.

They have a passport, if they don't, why are they prioritising an expensive computer over travelling abroad for real experiences.

[Ben Lubar]

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

Alright, let's use an example from an obscure country like The United States of America.

Steam's minimum age is 13. A 13 year old also will likely not have a valid driver's license or voting ID because they are several years too young to use either of those. There are also laws against collecting personal information from minors. A 13 year old is a minor.

They have a passport.

I am 29 years old and I have never had a passport, nor have I had a reason to have a passport.

[Reuben]

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

They have a passport.

I am 29 years old and I have never had a passport, nor have I had a reason to have a passport.

You do you, but in some countries a passport can be used for other purposes other than travelling. If you can afford a gaming PC, you can afford a passport.

[76561197960287930]

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

Reuben の投稿を引用：

They have a passport.

I am 29 years old and I have never had a passport, nor have I had a reason to have a passport.

Me either. But I'm a US citizen and have a REAL ID! That is a requirement to even get a US passport. I think Valve very much likes its users to be non identified, especially where it benefits them from users in other countries, chat room url scamming and posting fake reviews. Probably cheat makers to. Are there any of those in the US?

[Ben Lubar]

Reuben の投稿を引用：

Ben Lubar の投稿を引用：

I am 29 years old and I have never had a passport, nor have I had a reason to have a passport.

You do you, but in some countries a passport can be used for other purposes other than travelling. If you can afford a gaming PC, you can afford a passport.

If I need to get a passport quickly, that can easily cost $300.

I can play multiplayer video games on a computer that costs under $100. Not to mention that I can't play video games if I have a passport instead of a computer.

Also, a 13 year old likely has access to a computer for school. A 13 year old does not need a passport for school.