Please revise multi-player tagging (Local Multi-player vs. Local Co-op)

[deliciouspancakes]

Edit: In a Steam update in July, Valve implemented a variation of my suggestion below by adding Online Multi-player, Online Co-op, Local Multi-player and Local Co-op as tags. They have left the Shared/Split Screen tag on the Players menu so that they don't force the Local Co-op tag when the devs had checked Shared/Split Screen.


Problem:
Currently the Players interface offers the following options:
Single-player, Multi-player, Cross-Platform Multiplayer, MMO, Co-op, Shared/Split Screen

Source: http://imgur.com/nix2tdU

Issue:
When a developer selects the Shared/Split-screen option for their game the Local Co-op tag is applied to the game. This is a problem because a game may be Local Multi-player and have no Co-op Elements. In which case developers will often choose to use the Multi-player tag as it seems more accurate than Local Co-op, leading to Issue 2

Issue 2:
The Multi-player and Co-op tags are used almost exclusively to indicate Online features. Adding either of these tags to a game with no Online components results in customers being misled into thinking the game features Online Multi-player or Online Co-op.

Suggested fix: Allow games to be flagged as Online and add a Local Multi-player tag

Detailed fixes:
Add Online as a checkbox in the Players Menu.
Add Local Multi-player as a tag.
Change the Multi-player tag to Online Multi-player
Change the Co-op tag to Online Co-op

Developers will be presented with the following options:
Multi-player, Co-op, Online, Shared/Split Screen

Depending on which boxes are checked in the Players menu, a game could have any of the following four tags set:
Online Multi-player
Online Co-op
Local Multi-player
Local Co-op

Additional suggestion:
To facilitate this transition, flag all current games with the Co-op or Multi-player tags to also have the aforementioned Online box checked by default in the Players menu.


Thanks!

[Cake for Mumm-Ra]

This is a good idea. Valve should consider it!

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

By "Multiplayer" do you mean PVP multiplayer?

Just to distinguish it from Co-op multiplayer or PVE multiplayer.

[deliciouspancakes]

Originally posted by Quint the Globular Springtail:

By "Multiplayer" do you mean PVP multiplayer?

Just to distinguish it from Co-op multiplayer or PVE multiplayer.

On Steam,
Multi-player is short for competitive or team-based multiplayer
Co-op is short for cooperative multiplayer, specifically against AI or some game system.

From your post it seems you are thinking in MMO terms, the above have been fairly standard terms for non-mmo multiplayer games for quite a while. Co-optimus, the co-op gaming blog has done a pretty good job of standardizing the terms.

That aside,the major issue we are discussing here is that there needs to be a clear tagging of games that are Online vs Local.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by jonaswashe:

Originally posted by Quint the Globular Springtail:

By "Multiplayer" do you mean PVP multiplayer?

Just to distinguish it from Co-op multiplayer or PVE multiplayer.

On Steam,
Multi-player is short for competitive multiplayer
Co-op is short for cooperative multiplayer (I know I am stating the obvious :) )

From your post it seems you are thinking in MMO terms, the above have been fairly standard terms for non-mmo multiplayer games for quite a while. Co-optimus, the co-op gaming blog has done a pretty good job of standardizing the terms.

Well; it's not just MMOs; you can apply those elsewhere, like standard TF2 matches are PVP while Mann vs. Machine campaigns are PVE.

I don't exactly like the use of "multiplayer" to specifically refer to PVP, but oh well.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Originally posted by jonaswashe:

On Steam,
Multi-player is short for competitive multiplayer

Ew. Not to me it's not - that sounds about as good an idea as "cheese is short for cream cheese" or "water is short for boiling water". Multiplayer should just mean...multiplayer. Not any particular kind of multiplayer. If you want a shorter way of saying "competitive multiplayer", choose "competitive", not "multiplayer", otherwise you're actively creating more ambiguity.

Otherwise I think I agree with your suggestions regarding some splitting up of the labels, but it's hard to tell whether I agree with your reasons for making them and what you intend they be used to mean. That you say things like "If you know of any games with no Online components which have the Co-op or Multi-player tags assigned, please post them here" is a concern because I don't see what the problem is there.

...On second reading I think I simply agree with "issue 1" but disagree with "issue 2". I don't think saying a game has multiplayer when it has multiplayer, or co-op when it has co-op, is misleading anyone.

[Cake for Mumm-Ra]

Originally posted by Gus the Crocodile:

Originally posted by jonaswashe:

On Steam,
Multi-player is short for competitive multiplayer

Multiplayer should just mean...multiplayer. Not any particular kind of multiplayer.

The thing we need to distinguish about 'multiplayer' is if it's local multiplayer, or online multiplayer.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Absolutely. Just like we need to distinguish whether an action game is a brawler or a shoot-em-up or a racing game or whatever else. I'm entirely in favour of the use of more specific tags - Steam's "tag system" is, on the whole, a massive improvement over what was there before.

[deliciouspancakes]

Originally posted by Gus the Crocodile:

Absolutely. Just like we need to distinguish whether an action game is a brawler or a shoot-em-up or a racing game or whatever else. I'm entirely in favour of the use of more specific tags - Steam's "tag system" is, on the whole, a massive improvement over what was there before.

Gus, I think you're talking about the user-defined tags, which are definately useful for exploring the Steam library of games.

This post is about the Steam tags developers can assign, like platform cross-functionality and multiplayer components. Things which are a part of the advertised features for a given game.

[Gus the Crocodile]

I know what you're talking about, yeah. That last post was a response only to Cake, and indeed I only brought up user tags as a demonstration that I support people's ability to be more specific about the description of a game.

[Streaks {tORJ}]

I have to agree that multiplayer simply means "it's not single player" and can be any combination of PVP, PVE, COOP, etc..

Also, local COOP to me = LAN games ....screw split screen right in the eye, don't even see how people find that enjoyable.

But yes, I totally agree that there needs to be more detail. Try searching some time for JUST COOP games and see what comes up. ....total nightmare.

[mer7]

asdsadas

[deliciouspancakes]

Originally posted by Streaks:

I have to agree that multiplayer simply means "it's not single player" and can be any combination of PVP, PVE, COOP, etc..

Also, local COOP to me = LAN games ....screw split screen right in the eye, don't even see how people find that enjoyable.
.

Streaks, we're discussing the Steam Store tag multi-player not the definition of the word multiplayer.

As a rule, yes, multi-player obviously means anything that allows multiple players and is not purely single player. The problem is when labeling a game as co-op or multi-player, for communication purposes a clear distinction must be made. Therefore multi-player cannot mean co-op.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Originally posted by jonaswashe:

Streaks, we're discussing the Steam Store tag multi-player not the definition of the word multiplayer.

I disagree. We're clearly discussing what particular words mean, including "multiplayer", and have been doing so since your original post where you suggested it would be misleading to call a multiplayer game a multiplayer game because that term actually refers to something else.

Originally posted by jonaswashe:

As a rule, yes, multi-player obviously means anything that allows multiple players and is not purely single player. The problem is when labeling a game as co-op or multi-player, for communication purposes a clear distinction must be made. Therefore multi-player cannot mean co-op.

I'm afraid I don't really understand your reasoning here; to me, you speak as if a) we only have these two words with which to describe all videogames, and b) all these labels on the store page must be entirely exclusive from each other. Neither of which are the case.

Multiplayer is any game that allows for multiple people to play. Co-op is a type of multiplayer - a subset, not an alternative. As long as your solution is out of tune with what those words mean, it is going to actively confuse people. So here's a suggestion from me that doesn't require mangling words: describe the types of "x-player" modes the game has: singleplayer, multiplayer, then subsets of multiplayer (eg. co-op). Within each of those, describe whether it's available for online play, and whether it's available for local play. For example:

Singleplayer (local)
Multiplayer (local, online)
Co-op (local)

In terms of searches, that "Multiplayer (local, online)" label would count as both "Multiplayer (Local)" and "Multiplayer (Online)". For completeness one might add "offline" to the possibilities of "local" and "online", but that's going beyond the purpose of this thread.

[Streaks {tORJ}]

I agree with Gus here. I'd only ask for one clarification to be made when searching for games though. Coop-LAN or Multiplayer-LAN.....because a LAN game is a whole other kettle of fish.

I say this because often, my wife and I will try to look up some CoOp games to try. And trying to find a game that meets the LAN/local criteria and has proper CoOp game play (looking at you Division), is a pain in the nuts.

[deliciouspancakes]

Originally posted by Streaks:

I agree with Gus here. I'd only ask for one clarification to be made when searching for games though. Coop-LAN or Multiplayer-LAN.....because a LAN game is a whole other kettle of fish.

I say this because often, my wife and I will try to look up some CoOp games to try. And trying to find a game that meets the LAN/local criteria and has proper CoOp game play (looking at you Division), is a pain in the nuts.

Those are also good suggestions. It would be nice to see if a game was capable of being played over LAN.

I'm mainly concerned with making sure the Multi-player and Co-op tags are used accurately because it's frustrating both on the devs side and the customer's side with the current system. That's why I'm trying to limit the discussion to the Steam Store tags. But, both of your points are helpful!