"Mixed" Review Option

[Creeper of Doom]

I am sure many Steam Users (Including Me) Would very much like the addition of having 3 Options for Review Recommendations. Recommended, Mixed and Not Recommended. To show how we really feel about a Product. Many times i have wished this was possible to do this in a Review

[Nx Machina]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

1. Valve ignores 99% of the suggestions made here.

2. Without solid evidence, that's nothing more than an assumption.

3. I did not answer if I like it or not.

Valve implements the suggestions worthy of doing so as do every business and a suggestion is by definition please CONSIDER this and not a guarantee.

"Solid evidence" as in the adverts for Starfield before it was ever released.

You answered the question by giving an answer as in:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

As for pineapple on pizza, I never tried it, so I can't answer that.

"Never tried it" is an answer.

[Serendipity]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Serendipity:

How hard can it be? It is a simple yes or no question needing a, yes or no, answer; Do you like this game or do you not, the same for would you recommend this game you would or you would not. How is that difficult?

As for, mixed, that is exactly what it is the yes and nos being more or else equal in number.

Then you have a lovely text box so you can explain why you gave your answer.

What are the chances of people reading your review?

I do not write reviews unless something stands out also whether people read any or not that is their prerogative., it does not bother me or upset me.

There are bigger things in the world right now than this.

[Tanoomba]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

It does need to change, because the current system asks the wrong question. Instead of "do you recommend this game?", it should be something like "how do you rate this game?".

If you want to talk about how you rate a game, the current system allows you to do that. Just choose whether you recommend it or not, then give it whatever rating you want on whatever scale you want in the text of your review.

[Nx Machina]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

Well, sorry but that's incorrect. Please read it carefully, and you may notice that the actual reason they ended up recommending it is that they couldn't give the game a neutral rating:

"Honestly, it's a mixed bag for me. It's a game about solving your own murder and the reason for it. But I thought it was okay(ish) and that's it. I'd give it a neutral rating if I could. "

They also listed pros and cons which reviewers do and that is the most important part of any review as it is actually about the game, but conveniently you ignore that.

Pros
- Story and twist which keeps you interested all the way through
- The premise is great, but not used to it's ful potential. Would have loved to see more with more games

Cons
- Janky controls (on PC)
- The era of collectibles everywhere (Got them all, but took hours)

Secondly:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

Only because there's no option to reflect their actual opinion about the game.

They did express their opinion. See pros and cons above and followed up with a conclusion.

Conclusion: A great game from 2014, which had great graphics and a story that didn't get boring.
Unfortunately the ending is anticlimactic and weird. It feels like everything was a waste of time...
6/10

[Pierce Dalton]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Serendipity:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

What are the chances of people reading your review?

I do not write reviews unless something stands out also whether people read any or not that is their prerogative., it does not bother me or upset me.

There are bigger things in the world right now than this.

It does not bother or upset me either, you're missing the point. What we write in that text box is irrelevant, because only a few people will read it. You may say stuff like "I consider this game a 5.1/10" but what most people will see is the positive rating in the stats of the game. When in reality, your opinion about the game isn't that positive...

[Pierce Dalton]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nx Machina:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

Well, sorry but that's incorrect. Please read it carefully, and you may notice that the actual reason they ended up recommending it is that they couldn't give the game a neutral rating:

"Honestly, it's a mixed bag for me. It's a game about solving your own murder and the reason for it. But I thought it was okay(ish) and that's it. I'd give it a neutral rating if I could. "

They also listed pros and cons which reviewers do and that is the most important part of any review as it is actually about the game, but conveniently you ignore that.

Pros
- Story and twist which keeps you interested all the way through
- The premise is great, but not used to it's ful potential. Would have loved to see more with more games

Cons
- Janky controls (on PC)
- The era of collectibles everywhere (Got them all, but took hours)

Secondly:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

Only because there's no option to reflect their actual opinion about the game.

They did express their opinion. See pros and cons above and followed up with a conclusion.

Conclusion: A great game from 2014, which had great graphics and a story that didn't get boring.
Unfortunately the ending is anticlimactic and weird. It feels like everything was a waste of time...
6/10

Well, if you do not believe me, you can always ask the reviewer why did they recommended it. Probably, the answer will be something along the lines of: "because there was no option to write a mixed/neutral review".

[Pierce Dalton]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tanoomba:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

It does need to change, because the current system asks the wrong question. Instead of "do you recommend this game?", it should be something like "how do you rate this game?".

If you want to talk about how you rate a game, the current system allows you to do that. Just choose whether you recommend it or not, then give it whatever rating you want on whatever scale you want in the text of your review.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Serendipity:

I do not write reviews unless something stands out also whether people read any or not that is their prerogative., it does not bother me or upset me.

There are bigger things in the world right now than this.

It does not bother or upset me either, you're missing the point. What we write in that text box is irrelevant, because only a few people will read it. You may say stuff like "I consider this game a 5.1/10" but what most people will see is the positive rating in the stats of the game. When in reality, your opinion about the game isn't that positive...

[Start_Running]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Serendipity:

How hard can it be? It is a simple yes or no question needing a, yes or no, answer; Do you like this game or do you not, the same for would you recommend this game you would or you would not. How is that difficult?

Some people don't want to be accused of being Haters or Fanbois.

Ursprungligen skrivet av BJWyler:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Start_Running:

It's not geared towards people who just want to vomit up whatever thoughless rambling mess they want.

The problem is, that still happens on a regular basis anyway, irrespective of the type of system used. And of course the awards system for reviews only makes it worse.

At least those ramblers can say whether or not they recommend or not recommend the game so they at least put that much thought.

Can you imagine the inanities of someone who can't even apply enough thought to say yes or no to the question.

if someone can't devote enough thought to match the low bar that is "COmmander Shepard" then the system is better off without such a review.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tanoomba:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

It does need to change, because the current system asks the wrong question. Instead of "do you recommend this game?", it should be something like "how do you rate this game?".

If you want to talk about how you rate a game, the current system allows you to do that. Just choose whether you recommend it or not, then give it whatever rating you want on whatever scale you want in the text of your review.

And there's the thing. Valve really doesn't care about the answer to the question he and others want to be asked. Valve is asking the right question since it requires just a wee bit more introspection and thoughtfulness than the alternative.

The suimple truth is they want to have an impact on the actual rating of the game. One could think of it as a sneaky way to review bomb honestly.

[DiceDsx]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Serendipity:

I do not write reviews unless something stands out also whether people read any or not that is their prerogative., it does not bother me or upset me.

There are bigger things in the world right now than this.

It does not bother or upset me either, you're missing the point. What we write in that text box is irrelevant, because only a few people will read it. You may say stuff like "I consider this game a 5.1/10" but what most people will see is the positive rating in the stats of the game. When in reality, your opinion about the game isn't that positive...

That would mean every review system is useless if people are unwilling to read the text box, which is the important part.

What's the point in changing the system if people aren't going to read anyway?

[Tanoomba]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

What we write in that text box is irrelevant, because only a few people will read it. You may say stuff like "I consider this game a 5.1/10" but what most people will see is the positive rating in the stats of the game. When in reality, your opinion about the game isn't that positive...

Two points:

- If your concern is not what is written but how the review is counted, then you're talking about the aggregate. Any system that would allow reviewers a scale (say, out of five stars) would be instantly and consistently abused by people choosing the extreme ends of that scale to have as large an effect on the aggregate as possible, ultimately making the aggregate far less reliable.

- Let's say, hypothetically, that people's opinions aren't being accurately counted because the available choices don't represent the range of possible opinion. This means, on an individual level, there is a possibility of being incorrectly counted. However, any such inaccuracies will be ultimately irrelevant as the more reviews a game gets overall, the less relevant any individual inaccuracies will be, and the more accurately the aggregate represents the player base's opinion.

So what you're presenting as a problem isn't actually a problem in terms of aggregate accuracy, and the proposed solution would actually only make things worse.

[Pierce Dalton]

Ursprungligen skrivet av BJWyler:

However, it is set up this way specifically on Steam more as a means of garnering more sales for games

Exactly, I'm glad someone is able to notice that. Most people don't realize why reviews exist. So why do they exist? Is it because our opinion is important or something like that? No, that would be a naive assumption.

The reason why reviews exist is pretty simple: to convince us to purchase games. Of course, negative reviews also exist, they're an inevitable side effect but worth it because the majority of reviews on Steam are positive - otherwise they would have removed this feature long ago, since it would disencourage people from purchasing games. Also, initially Steam had only recommendations, so if your opinion about a game was negative you had no space to express it. But people started misusing recommendations to express negative views too. Naturally, the solution was to create positive and negative reviews to separate things. Why didn't they exist since the beginning, though? Why only recommendations were allowed initially?

So it all boils down to: How would mixed/neutral reviews help Steam sell more games?

It doesn't take a genius to realize that they wouldn't, the introduction of such option would have the opposite effect. For instance, people are more inclined to purchase a product with 60% positive and 40% negative reviews than a product with 40% positive, 30% mixed and 30% negative reviews. It's basic psychology. Now the funny thing is that neutral reviews already exist, if you have the habit of reading reviews you see them every now and then. They're just mislabeled as positive reviews, but obviously that's exactly what Valve wants.

This is the oldest trick in the book, make your product look better than it is... or bigger, like junk food companies do lol. Unless a game is really REALLY bad, people tend to write positive reviews and Valve knows that. Some people give positive reviews for games that in their opinion barely crossed the line, games that they would rate as 6/10.

So games that are considered just average by the reviewer end up looking better than they actually are, convincing more people to purchase them. It doesn't really matter what you write in your review, only a few people will read it. What matters is the stats of the game, which can be "very positive" even though the majority of reviewers considered a game just decent, passable.

AFAIK, no videogame magazine or website focused on rating games uses a binary system like Steam's. The reason for that is pretty simple too: they don't sell any games.

[Pierce Dalton]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tanoomba:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

What we write in that text box is irrelevant, because only a few people will read it. You may say stuff like "I consider this game a 5.1/10" but what most people will see is the positive rating in the stats of the game. When in reality, your opinion about the game isn't that positive...

Two points:

- If your concern is not what is written but how the review is counted, then you're talking about the aggregate. Any system that would allow reviewers a scale (say, out of five stars) would be instantly and consistently abused by people choosing the extreme ends of that scale to have as large an effect on the aggregate as possible, ultimately making the aggregate far less reliable.

- Let's say, hypothetically, that people's opinions aren't being accurately counted because the available choices don't represent the range of possible opinion. This means, on an individual level, there is a possibility of being incorrectly counted. However, any such inaccuracies will be ultimately irrelevant as the more reviews a game gets overall, the less relevant any individual inaccuracies will be, and the more accurately the aggregate represents the player base's opinion.

So what you're presenting as a problem isn't actually a problem in terms of aggregate accuracy, and the proposed solution would actually only make things worse.

1. Why would you or anyone else give 5 stars to a game that you consider only 3 stars? That doesn't make any sense. This situation could happen if a developer was paying people, but this possibility already exists.

2. Well, I think this suggestion has nothing to do with a 5 stars system. The idea proposed here is having 3 options, not 5.

[Tanoomba]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

The reason why reviews exist is pretty simple: to convince us to purchase games.

... To purchase games we'll enjoy, you mean, and avoid games we won't.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

the majority of reviews on Steam are positive

Because the majority of reviewers enjoy the games they buy.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

It doesn't take a genius to realize that they wouldn't, the introduction of such option would have the opposite effect. For instance, people are more inclined to purchase a product with 60% positive and 40% negative reviews than a product with 40% positive, 30% mixed and 30% negative reviews.

You skipped a step there. Why would a "mixed" option lead to a lower aggregate? You seem to be presenting this as self-evident when it most definitely is not.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

Unless a game is really REALLY bad, people tend to write positive reviews and Valve knows that.

Then why are there so many games with mixed reviews, or mostly negative reviews? We have games that cover the entire range of aggregate classification, so this idea that a recommend/don't recommend system is somehow inflating aggregates is a fallacy.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

So games that are considered just average by the reviewer end up looking better than they actually are

Then why do average games still get average reviews?

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

What matters is the stats of the game, which can be "very positive" even though the majority of reviewers considered a game just decent, passable.

But if most of a game's player base thinks a game is "just decent, passable", then it's not going to get overwhelmingly positive reviews. There are many people for whom "just decent, barely passable" does not warrant a recommendation. There are many people for whom whatever shortcomings that game has that keeps it from greatness are dealbreakers. Again, because I can not stress this enough: The more reviews a game has, the more accurate the aggregate is and the less significant any individual supposed inaccuracies are.

[Start_Running]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tanoomba:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

The reason why reviews exist is pretty simple: to convince us to purchase games.

... To purchase games we'll enjoy, you mean, and avoid games we won't.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

the majority of reviews on Steam are positive

Because the majority of reviewers enjoy the games they buy.

This is something that confuses people it seems. Some games are intended for a very specific, very niche audience and if the dev/pub is particularly precise, savy, or skilled with their marketing and promotion. NMost of the people who are the intended audience will wind up buying it and they will like That audience may only be a couple hundred people but its an audience.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tanoomba:

You skipped a step there. Why would a "mixed" option lead to a lower aggregate? You seem to be presenting this as self-evident when it most definitely is not.

Ideally a mixed review would count as a +0, or counted as a +1 to positive and negative. BUtr since we know Valve is miostly just tracking positive reviews. it'd likely be the first in which case akll mixed would function as is a second Negative

[Tanoomba]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

1. Why would you or anyone else give 5 stars to a game that you consider only 3 stars?

Off the top of my head:
- Because they think the game is being unfairly judged by others.
- Because they believe that this game getting better reviews will increase the likelihood of a sequel.
- Because they're friends with someone of the dev team.
- Because they're lazy and don't want to consider where on the scale their opinion would fit best.
- Because they think other people will like the game more than they did.

And of course, we'd have the much bigger problem of people maliciously abusing the lowest possible score in order to punish the devs for any perceived transgression.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

2. Well, I think this suggestion has nothing to do with a 5 stars system. The idea proposed here is having 3 options, not 5.

The example you gave was specifically of someone who considered the game a "5.1/10".

And again, if a game is "meh" then we don't actually need a "meh" option for the aggregate to reflect that. The current system already allows for mediocre games to get mediocre aggregates. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.