How to deal with the forum Hyenas.

[FOXDUDE69]

We all know that the Steam hub has had a problem with forum hyenas for a long time and we've seen countless newcomers and regulars being banned after interacting with them.

We've all seen them derailing countless threads to the point of closure, being combative, harassing other users on their profiles and we've seen examples of them taking credit for and mocking other users bans.

They then try to gaslight users that have been negatively impacted by their behavior by telling them to follow the guidelines when they themselves behave in an utterly reprehensible manner.

Reporting doesn't work.

Costumer support doesn't help and just tells you to report.

The countless threads on the matter seem to be ignored by Valve.

So my suggestion is that we collectively ask Gaben directly to look into the matter.

You can easily find his email online. If you are one of the users who have noticed the issue or have been unfairly banned by moderation after interacting with the forum hyenas, and if you'd like to see a healthier Steam Hub, contact Gaben via email with the subject: "Forum Hyenas", and describe your experiences.

And for the future I also suggest that Valve has a develops a team of inhouse moderators to look after the health of these forums.

The fact that Steam is the number 1 PC gaming marketplace yet there's only a handful of regulars around here really shows what an undesirable place it has become.

Don't outsource moderation and for the love of God do not use Volunteer mods.

These forums matter.

[[PC]Roco45]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nx Machina:

Ursprungligen skrivet av kitt:

well, being banned less than 5 minutes after post (and mostly when replying to certain users) People being ex-mods, people using X to contact Valve employees, actions taken by unknown users (aka moderators).

show me evidence that there is no tiki-taka going on..

You are NEVER told which report by whom was actioned hence conjecture and speculation.

Secondly when you have to point a finger it is always those certain users YOU have to blame rather than what YOU actually post which causes the ban.

And finally you want to, need to, have to believe tiki-taka is going on because it fits your narrative.

No he stated that it's when engaging with certain users and consistently is moderated extremely quickly when engaging with those specific users. Then comparing that to the neo ♥♥♥♥ content and such that is unmoderated by Steam for days to weeks. All of that context does point towards some sketchy none sense. The tiki-taka, if you will.

[Start_Running]

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Your comment just didn't hold any weight in lieu of the discussion. You're making absolutes based off your personal subjective opinion that have no weight in the discussion... unless you're a moderator. It doesn't matter that you personally don't think others on here haven't crossed the line, while others have. According to the Rules and Guidelines, many people have crossed the line on this thread, but only some have been moderated for it and it's predominately those who support what OP is saying. Like this comment:

Crossed what YOU THINK IS THE LINE. See my statements are based on observation and a simple assumption. That Moderators do in fact do their job. Which is clearly evident by the occasional post delitions and ban-claps. So if you see something YOU THINK is against the guidelines not getting addressed. It's safe to assume that perhaops ones internal idea of the rules may not be entirely 1:1 with that olf the people who made the darned rules.

Which is basically my whole point. WHat YOU THINK doesn't necessarily reflect WHAT IS.
Hencewhy as I said, smart people give wghere ever they'vepegged the line at a healthy berth. And if they do get clapped the sensible ones re-evaluate their conceptual line, re draw it, and adjust their behaviour to give the revise line a wide berth.

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Start_Running:

Onh no discrimination m8. As said. one person crosses the line, the other does not.

And see again, I'm stating that Steams 3rd Party Moderation isn't unbiased, it's completely biased, hence the entire issue that OP has, I have, lots of users have, and lots of users are going to have if they interact with the discussions.

Remember when I said:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Start_Running:

The second phase of the problem when even when shown to be wrong a person refuses to accept that. CLearly it is not their equation that is wrong, but the rules of calculus and maths that are incorrect. They did not uuse the wrong value for Pi. The WORLD is using the wrong value for Pi.

Yeah . You've just demonstrated what that looks like. Your statement about bias is based entirely on subjectivity and lets be frank. There's no way you can actually prove it or evidence it to be true. I mean I don't think there's anyone in this thread who hasn't gotten clapped at somepoint.

So if both 'sides' are getting clapped, who is the third party biased towards?
WHat's more likely. THis uuntestable hypothesis, or. that the notions and biases YOU HAVE might be wrong?

Again. the problem might not be the system. The problem might well be your understanding of the system. There's a reason why 90% of forum users never encounter bans. It's simoply because they manage to stay within the rules, The ACTUAL RULES. The sooner the OP and others learn to simply give therules a wide margin, the less likely they are to get banned.

Simple as that.

Don't play MOderattion Matador and you won't have a problem.
I mean simply not making threads like this would go a long way to solving the OP's issues. Maybe post threads related to games ones likes. Or cool fun up coming games you're looking forward to.

[Nx Machina]

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

No he stated that it's when engaging with certain users and consistently is moderated extremely quickly when engaging with those specific users.

No it is conjecture and speculation because as already stated.

"You are NEVER told which report by whom was actioned".

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Then comparing that to the neo ♥♥♥♥ content and such that is unmoderated by Steam for days to weeks. All of that context does point towards some sketchy none sense. The tiki-taka, if you will.

Take that up with moderation.

[[PC]Roco45]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nx Machina:

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

No he stated that it's when engaging with certain users and consistently is moderated extremely quickly when engaging with those specific users.

No it is conjecture and speculation because as already stated.

"You are NEVER told which report by whom was actioned".

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Then comparing that to the neo ♥♥♥♥ content and such that is unmoderated by Steam for days to weeks. All of that context does point towards some sketchy none sense. The tiki-taka, if you will.

Take that up with moderation.

I believe, taking it up with moderation doesn't work, hence the complaints about the moderation lol

[Brian9824]

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nx Machina:

You are NEVER told which report by whom was actioned hence conjecture and speculation.

Secondly when you have to point a finger it is always those certain users YOU have to blame rather than what YOU actually post which causes the ban.

And finally you want to, need to, have to believe tiki-taka is going on because it fits your narrative.

No he stated that it's when engaging with certain users and consistently is moderated extremely quickly when engaging with those specific users. Then comparing that to the neo ♥♥♥♥ content and such that is unmoderated by Steam for days to weeks. All of that context does point towards some sketchy none sense. The tiki-taka, if you will.

Sounds more like some users have an inability to engage with certain users and thus get repeatedly banned when they insult them or break the rules.

Again if users were actually able to control moderation they'd be being banned when they engage with ANYONE, not just specific users.

[[PC]Roco45]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Start_Running:

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Your comment just didn't hold any weight in lieu of the discussion. You're making absolutes based off your personal subjective opinion that have no weight in the discussion... unless you're a moderator. It doesn't matter that you personally don't think others on here haven't crossed the line, while others have. According to the Rules and Guidelines, many people have crossed the line on this thread, but only some have been moderated for it and it's predominately those who support what OP is saying. Like this comment:

Crossed what YOU THINK IS THE LINE. See my statements are based on observation and a simple assumption. That Moderators do in fact do their job. Which is clearly evident by the occasional post delitions and ban-claps. So if you see something YOU THINK is against the guidelines not getting addressed. It's safe to assume that perhaops ones internal idea of the rules may not be entirely 1:1 with that olf the people who made the darned rules.

Which is basically my whole point. WHat YOU THINK doesn't necessarily reflect WHAT IS.
Hencewhy as I said, smart people give wghere ever they'vepegged the line at a healthy berth. And if they do get clapped the sensible ones re-evaluate their conceptual line, re draw it, and adjust their behaviour to give the revise line a wide berth.

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

And see again, I'm stating that Steams 3rd Party Moderation isn't unbiased, it's completely biased, hence the entire issue that OP has, I have, lots of users have, and lots of users are going to have if they interact with the discussions.

Remember when I said:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Start_Running:

The second phase of the problem when even when shown to be wrong a person refuses to accept that. CLearly it is not their equation that is wrong, but the rules of calculus and maths that are incorrect. They did not uuse the wrong value for Pi. The WORLD is using the wrong value for Pi.

Yeah . You've just demonstrated what that looks like. Your statement about bias is based entirely on subjectivity and lets be frank. There's no way you can actually prove it or evidence it to be true. I mean I don't think there's anyone in this thread who hasn't gotten clapped at somepoint.

So if both 'sides' are getting clapped, who is the third party biased towards?
WHat's more likely. THis uuntestable hypothesis, or. that the notions and biases YOU HAVE might be wrong?

Again. the problem might not be the system. The problem might well be your understanding of the system.

It's just the difference between you and I, is I keep citing the Rules and Guidelines that are clearly stated on a viewable tab, for everyone to see. You keep citing the moderators as being absolute... when the moderators are supposed to abide by the Rules and Guidelines that are outlined.

[76561199559798421]

you can only take things up with support, but the chances that a rogue user is running around with moderation log in access it pretty likely and explains exactly what the problem is that continues to go around on the steam forums.

Steam should really start investigating into what moderator is making all the poor choices and taking all the excessive and abusive actions and put a stop to it, for the sake of this platforms growth.

oddly enough steam keeps getting bigger but the forum keeps getting smaller.

[Nx Machina]

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

I believe, taking it up with moderation doesn't work, hence the complaints about the moderation lol

Moderation obviously works hence the bans.

As for that other content take it up with moderation and ask why said content is not removed.

[[PC]Roco45]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nx Machina:

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

I believe, taking it up with moderation doesn't work, hence the complaints about the moderation lol

Moderation obviously works hence the bans.

As for that other content take it up with moderation and ask why said content is not removed.

Bans simply being issued doesn't mean the moderation is inherently working, otherwise Steam wouldn't be getting slapped every year for having awful moderation.

[Nx Machina]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Everyone is Invited:

you can only take things up with support, but the chances that a rogue user is running around with moderation log in access it pretty likely and explains exactly what the problem is that continues to go around on the steam forums.

Steam should really start investigating into what moderator is making all the poor choices and taking all the excessive and abusive actions and put a stop to it, for the sake of this platforms growth.

oddly enough steam keeps getting bigger but the forum keeps getting smaller.

And you will be supplying the evidence of that rogue user having access to validate your claim and in turn nullify your conjecture and speculation.

[Nx Machina]

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Bans simply being issued doesn't mean the moderation is inherently working, otherwise Steam wouldn't be getting slapped every year for having awful moderation.

"It is not what you say it is HOW you say it" and HOW you say it determines if you crossed the line and in turn "awful moderation" becomes the mantra, the narrative for those who need to blame others for THEIR choice of words.

[Brian9824]

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nx Machina:

Moderation obviously works hence the bans.

As for that other content take it up with moderation and ask why said content is not removed.

Bans simply being issued doesn't mean the moderation is inherently working, otherwise Steam wouldn't be getting slapped every year for having awful moderation.

Again, its not exactly a surprise those who get moderated repeatedly complain about being punished. It's like criminals complaining they got caught....

Or cheaters claiming they never cheated.

[[PC]Roco45]

Ursprungligen skrivet av brian9824:

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Bans simply being issued doesn't mean the moderation is inherently working, otherwise Steam wouldn't be getting slapped every year for having awful moderation.

Again, its not exactly a surprise those who get moderated repeatedly complain about being punished. It's like criminals complaining they got caught....

Or cheaters claiming they never cheated.

It's all circular logic lmao They aren't banning who they should be banning and it's getting increasingly more noticeable year after year, that's literally a fact.

[Nx Machina]

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

It's all circular logic lmao They aren't banning who they should be banning and it's getting increasingly more noticeable year after year, that's literally a fact.

Who should they be banning? Those that have a different opinion? Those that don't affirm yours?

[Start_Running]

Ursprungligen skrivet av PCRoco45:

Ursprungligen skrivet av brian9824:

Again, its not exactly a surprise those who get moderated repeatedly complain about being punished. It's like criminals complaining they got caught....

Or cheaters claiming they never cheated.

It's all circular logic lmao They aren't banning who they should be banning and it's getting increasingly more noticeable year after year, that's literally a fact.

And there we have it.
Moderation aren't doing what YOU want them to do, ergo moderation must be brolen. This stance of yours seems to be less about the actual rules and guidelines and more what you want to happen, or inflict, on other people.

The rukles are just a convenient tool to be used to that effect.
At least that's the gist I'm getting from what you're saying since at no point does the idea that "Maybe I'm wrong" seem to be considered.

"Pi. = 3.2 and the rest of the world is wrong"
Play devils advocate and do the thought experiment.Where you assume what you think is incorrect. How would the forums look and be behave in such a scenario. What would be the difference.

If you honestly pursue that line of thinking I think you'll find the forum in that scenario looks pretty much like what we all see now.