Forum improvement; Report Abusive community moderators.

[Washboard]

Coming here after being stonewalled by the support team....

Essentially (without naming names) i and others on a sub-forum i frequent are having issues with a community moderator abusing their powers to (literally) suppress people who have issues with the game in question. This presumably is an issue in other forums?

Without going into the whole "is the ban deserved" or not :) surely there should be a way to submit a mod for review if they seem to abuse steams rules?

Even just remove the anonymity?

[Crazy Tiger]

Removing anonymity would just lead to abuse.

Game hubs are in general managed by the game devs and their appointed moderator team. Valve lets game devs/publishers handle their game hub, it's considered their territory, so to speak.

If the ban was issued by a game hub moderator, contact the game dev to appeal the ban and make your complaint.
If the ban was issued by the game dev, you're out of luck.
If the ban was issued by a Steam Support member (ergo, a paid mod), follow the link in the ban message to contact Support to appeal the ban and make your complaint.

Keep in mind that the result you seek might not actually be the outcome. Especially with game hub moderators.

[Psymon²]

Washboard の投稿を引用：

Coming here after being stonewalled by the support team....

Essentially (without naming names) i and others on a sub-forum i frequent are having issues with a community moderator abusing their powers to (literally) suppress people who have issues with the game in question. This presumably is an issue in other forums?

Without going into the whole "is the ban deserved" or not :) surely there should be a way to submit a mod for review if they seem to abuse steams rules?

Even just remove the anonymity?

"who watches the watchmen"

Crazy Tiger の投稿を引用：

Removing anonymity would just lead to abuse.

Game hubs are in general managed by the game devs and their appointed moderator team. Valve lets game devs/publishers handle their game hub, it's considered their territory, so to speak.

If the ban was issued by a game hub moderator, contact the game dev to appeal the ban and make your complaint.
If the ban was issued by the game dev, you're out of luck.
If the ban was issued by a Steam Support member (ergo, a paid mod), follow the link in the ban message to contact Support to appeal the ban and make your complaint.

Keep in mind that the result you seek might not actually be the outcome. Especially with game hub moderators.

"Perfect is the enemy of better"

[Brian9824]

Psymon² の投稿を引用：

"who watches the watchmen"

Steam support, hence why when your moderated they tell you to contact Steam support if you think its a mistake. If it is they will remove it.

If both moderators and support agree its justified then it is, and you need to follow the rules.

[Washboard]

brian9824 の投稿を引用：

Psymon² の投稿を引用：

"who watches the watchmen"

Steam support, hence why when your moderated they tell you to contact Steam support if you think its a mistake. If it is they will remove it.

If both moderators and support agree its justified then it is, and you need to follow the rules.

Missing the point here, the point is not if the ban is justified or not. Its if its abusive behaviour by the mod. Both of these can be true if, for instance, the mod is selecting which reports to action(or generating report themselves), while excluding others.

The steam rules are also incredibly vague, you know you can be banned for "disrespect" which, in my experience, is earned by telling someone they're wrong with proof from the dev supporting the claim....

The point is there is no transparency, or recourse.

As the forums are where i and many others go to check before i buy a game, mods hiding issues/complaints by suppressing those having them is a problem which needs addressing.

[Tanoomba]

Washboard の投稿を引用：

Essentially (without naming names) i and others on a sub-forum i frequent are having issues with a community moderator abusing their powers to (literally) suppress people who have issues with the game in question.

Every time this claim is made, it turns out there's more to the story than is being shared. From what I can see, it's never simply criticism or talking about "issues" that prompts moderator action, but rather entitled gamers going off on toxic and/or accusatory rants. In other words, it's not the criticism that's the problem but how it's being expressed.

[Brian9824]

Washboard の投稿を引用：

brian9824 の投稿を引用：

Steam support, hence why when your moderated they tell you to contact Steam support if you think its a mistake. If it is they will remove it.

If both moderators and support agree its justified then it is, and you need to follow the rules.

Missing the point here, the point is not if the ban is justified or not. Its if its abusive behaviour by the mod. Both of these can be true if, for instance, the mod is selecting which reports to action(or generating report themselves), while excluding others.

The steam rules are also incredibly vague, you know you can be banned for "disrespect" which, in my experience, is earned by telling someone they're wrong with proof from the dev supporting the claim....

The point is there is no transparency, or recourse.

As the forums are where i and many others go to check before i buy a game, mods hiding issues/complaints by suppressing those having them is a problem which needs addressing.

There is a recourse, the issue with game forums is that its the game dev's forum and they are free to be stricter or looser or even have their own rules. Like i've heard the mods in dead by daylight are very strict and will ban readily, but they pay steam, and part of what they pay for is for their forums.

It's subjective and support won't intervene in game forums for the most part. You can contact the game company directly and report any moderators that are being problematic, but if they don't want to take action nothing you can really do except leave a review and mention the issues in it.

[Washboard]

Tanoomba の投稿を引用：

Washboard の投稿を引用：

Essentially (without naming names) i and others on a sub-forum i frequent are having issues with a community moderator abusing their powers to (literally) suppress people who have issues with the game in question.

Every time this claim is made, it turns out there's more to the story than is being shared. From what I can see, it's never simply criticism or talking about "issues" that prompts moderator action, but rather entitled gamers going off on toxic and/or accusatory rants. In other words, it's not the criticism that's the problem but how it's being expressed.

Yep i can see that, however nothing i say would disabuse you of thinking that's the case here as well ;)

Take the individual out of the equation, Corruption is a major issue across the world. why not steam forums?

Answer these 2 questions:
1. Why are the steam forums exempt from corruption?
2. What do game devs have to gain from suppressing those who point out problems with their game?

Point is, regardless if i'm a raging looney who posted a link then yelled abuse for a paragraph or not, there is no difference in the result between me and someone who says "your lying/that is untrue, X is in an awful state (link to proof)" if the mod is corrupt, if they don't like what the message is saying, they'll find a pretence to delete it and ban the poster.

There needs to be accountability for mods

[Psymon²]

Washboard の投稿を引用：

Tanoomba の投稿を引用：

Every time this claim is made, it turns out there's more to the story than is being shared. From what I can see, it's never simply criticism or talking about "issues" that prompts moderator action, but rather entitled gamers going off on toxic and/or accusatory rants. In other words, it's not the criticism that's the problem but how it's being expressed.

Yep i can see that, however nothing i say would disabuse you of thinking that's the case here as well ;)

Take the individual out of the equation, Corruption is a major issue across the world. why not steam forums?

Answer these 2 questions:
1. Why are the steam forums exempt from corruption?
2. What do game devs have to gain from suppressing those who point out problems with their game?

Point is, regardless if i'm a raging looney who posted a link then yelled abuse for a paragraph or not, there is no difference in the result between me and someone who says "your lying/that is untrue, X is in an awful state (link to proof)" if the mod is corrupt, if they don't like what the message is saying, they'll find a pretence to delete it and ban the poster.

There needs to be accountability for mods

you might find this interesting:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/7/3833171151468403638/

[Brian9824]

Washboard の投稿を引用：

There needs to be accountability for mods

There is, but if its a GAME mod the accountability would be with the developer of the game who appointed them as they are in charge of the forums. Hence why you'd contact the company. Unless they opted out of moderation, and then it would be steam moderators which doesn't sound like the case in what your describing.

Steam isn't going to remove moderators that were appointed by developers unless there is MASSIVE abuse going on which is INCREDIBLY rare. Forum moderators can even over-rule steam moderators on their own forums.

For instance I had a ban on the 7 days to die forum years ago from a steam moderator, and one of the forum moderators saw it, and actually reversed it as it wasn't done correctly.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Psymon² の投稿を引用：

Washboard の投稿を引用：

Yep i can see that, however nothing i say would disabuse you of thinking that's the case here as well ;)

Take the individual out of the equation, Corruption is a major issue across the world. why not steam forums?

Answer these 2 questions:
1. Why are the steam forums exempt from corruption?
2. What do game devs have to gain from suppressing those who point out problems with their game?

Point is, regardless if i'm a raging looney who posted a link then yelled abuse for a paragraph or not, there is no difference in the result between me and someone who says "your lying/that is untrue, X is in an awful state (link to proof)" if the mod is corrupt, if they don't like what the message is saying, they'll find a pretence to delete it and ban the poster.

There needs to be accountability for mods

you might find this interesting:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/7/3833171151468403638/

It is very interesting seeing someone saying that suggestions to game forum mods are the same as guidelines.

[Washboard]

brian9824 の投稿を引用：

Washboard の投稿を引用：

There needs to be accountability for mods

Steam isn't going to remove moderators that were appointed by developers unless there is MASSIVE abuse going on which is INCREDIBLY rare. Forum moderators can even over-rule steam moderators on their own forums.

And how is this proved/actioned?... we're talking in circles now :)

There is no mechanism for doing this (according to steam themselves)

[Tanoomba]

Washboard の投稿を引用：

1. Why are the steam forums exempt from corruption?

In theory, they aren't. In practice, the vast majority of claims of moderation "abuse" are unfounded. This seems more like a case of crying wolf than it does drawing attention to a systematic issue in need of attention.

Washboard の投稿を引用：

2. What do game devs have to gain from suppressing those who point out problems with their game?

Nothing. Criticism is valuable and useful and most devs welcome it. What's more, it isn't worth the backlash that would occur from fans who believe they are being treated unfairly.

[Brian9824]

Washboard の投稿を引用：

brian9824 の投稿を引用：

Steam isn't going to remove moderators that were appointed by developers unless there is MASSIVE abuse going on which is INCREDIBLY rare. Forum moderators can even over-rule steam moderators on their own forums.

And how is this proved/actioned?... we're talking in circles now :)

There is no mechanism for doing this (according to steam themselves)

There really isn't much, the only time I know of this happening is when the game dev was the moderator and they were banned from steam along with their games. The game hubs are really under the purview of the game developer. Hence why you should contact them directly if you have an issue.

Steam just provides hosting for the forum, and if they opt out of steam moderation that's pretty much it.

[Washboard]

Psymon² の投稿を引用：

There needs to be accountability for mods

you might find this interesting:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/7/3833171151468403638/ [/quote]

That is very interesting, though i think its not read by many mods :)

Tanoomba の投稿を引用：

Washboard の投稿を引用：

1. Why are the steam forums exempt from corruption?

In theory, they aren't. In practice, the vast majority of claims of moderation "abuse" are unfounded. This seems more like a case of crying wolf than it does drawing attention to a systematic issue in need of attention.

I mean its hard to discuss with someone who so clearly has drawn their own opinion, i would just encourage you to look at history and how many times that argument has been trotted out in relation to all kinds of positions of power, then its turned out there is widespread abuse :)

Washboard の投稿を引用：

2. What do game devs have to gain from suppressing those who point out problems with their game?

Nothing. Criticism is valuable and useful and most devs welcome it. What's more, it isn't worth the backlash that would occur from fans who believe they are being treated unfairly.

There is no backlash if you ban the fans

[Tanoomba]

Washboard の投稿を引用：

There is no backlash if you ban the fans

Sure there is. This is the internet.