Remove automated community wide ban system

[Shreddy]

Currently when more than one game discussion ban is active an automated community wide ban kicks in, the last one I had was for six months which means a steam account that has limited functionality (can’t edit profile etc). This would be great if it were Steam employees who were working to an objective standard and bans were given out fairly based around that but unfortunately anyone who has community discussion section on steam (even if they don’t sell or giveaway any games) can give out these bans that can very easily lead to an automated ban being given out.

Take Psyonix and their game rocket league for example, Rocket league isn’t sold on steam, it isn’t even given away, yet because they have a community discussion section they can give out bans. I’ve received and had overturned several permanent bans from this forum with the last being for mentioning Easter and some other events that Psyonix spends a month at a time promoting in game and on their forum. I mentioned these in a thread made by another user who was asking why the Easter event that has featured since launch was removed but other political based events are left in game. I voiced my opinion that Easter was a good event and that the other political events they promote are hateful and would be better not in game. A Psyonix employee went through the thread and permanently banned everyone who was in favour of the Easter event or was critical of the political events with the ban reason being “mentioning religion or politics” (keep in mind Psyonix announces their political events in game and in the forum and leaves their announcement threads open for comment….so they must break their own rules). I went through all this with valve support and they agree that Psyonix acted unreasonably and overturned the ban however that doesn’t stop the automated system from kicking in and giving the steam account a community wide automated ban that can last months or even longer.

For an account to be banned from the entire community when they are a paying customer who has spent thousands and the company that caused the ban doesn’t even sell games on steam this should be required to be verified by a real human being who works for valve rather than an automated system that will see loyal customers punished and rogue devs getting to ruin the platform.

EDIT 01-08-2023: this thread itself has now demonstrated the exact bias I was talking about, yesterday I was banned from steam and this thread deleted after a political activist parading as a moderator took issue with the objective facts pointed out in the thread. I was banned for 24 hours and this thread deleted before a senior employee at valve was able to take a look and restore the thread and remove the ban. We need a better system than this and to the low quality moderator who tried to silence it: grow up.

EDIT 01-08-2023: Another rogue mod locked the thread and banned me, this required a senior valve employee to unban me and unlock the thread for the second time in two days. It's clear that there is a major problem with the community ban system in general not just the automated system. Once again to the mod who tried to ban me: grow up.

EDIT 11-08-2023: One week ago I received a 52 week community wide ban for harassing players in this discussion, after a week of arguing with support and them being completely unable to produce any evidence of player harassment I have now been unbanned for a third time over this thread. I would like to thank everyone who contributed here but moving forward I will no longer be participating as it's clearly seriously jeopardising my account, I sure would love to know whats so upsetting about this discussion that they have tried to silence it and ban me so many times, it seems like a reasonable suggestion to me.

[Zoopy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shreddy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh AshTray900:

Oh man it’s just best to leave religion and politics out of everything especially where people chat back and forth without having to see the person at the water cooler the next day.

That’s like pouring rocket fuel into what is probably already a dumpster fire

If I was a Dev I wouldn't want people having in depth debates about religion or politics in my forum so that totally makes sense but to start banning people for mentioning religion when they simply asked why the Easter event with free items was no longer being put on is pathetic, especially when the Dev plasters every alt-left political talking point in their news section and in the game itself.

Rocket League has been around for quite a while now and I've played it for most of that time, over the years the Dev interactions went from being wholesome and fun with absolutely zero mention of politics to now what appears to be a clear agenda that they are forcing on the player base. It's these people who are pushing politics (and lets be honest a cult like religion) on people, not me. The idea that I can lose functionality on this account that I have poured thousands into as a result of this is quite frankly unacceptable.

I have to be honest, now that you've elaborated, I understand why you got banned. I think it's clear that we're only getting half the story from you, but the half you've told is enough so that it's easy to fill in the blanks.

[_galaxy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Zoopy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shreddy:

If I was a Dev I wouldn't want people having in depth debates about religion or politics in my forum so that totally makes sense but to start banning people for mentioning religion when they simply asked why the Easter event with free items was no longer being put on is pathetic, especially when the Dev plasters every alt-left political talking point in their news section and in the game itself.

Rocket League has been around for quite a while now and I've played it for most of that time, over the years the Dev interactions went from being wholesome and fun with absolutely zero mention of politics to now what appears to be a clear agenda that they are forcing on the player base. It's these people who are pushing politics (and lets be honest a cult like religion) on people, not me. The idea that I can lose functionality on this account that I have poured thousands into as a result of this is quite frankly unacceptable.

I have to be honest, now that you've elaborated, I understand why you got banned. I think it's clear that we're only getting half the story from you, but the half you've told is enough so that it's easy to fill in the blanks.

I had a ban overtuned from steam support as well these last few days it proves their system isn't perfect. You might be "getting" a story here but you still can't see the problem. This "story" will simply allow you to avoid any actual criticism to the system while you keep the head in the sand.

[AROCK!!!]

Diposting pertama kali oleh _galaxy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Zoopy:

I have to be honest, now that you've elaborated, I understand why you got banned. I think it's clear that we're only getting half the story from you, but the half you've told is enough so that it's easy to fill in the blanks.

I had a ban overtuned from steam support as well these last few days it proves their system isn't perfect. You might be "getting" a story here but you still can't see the problem. This "story" will simply allow you to avoid any actual criticism to the system while you keep the head in the sand.

My last 6 or so have been overturned, and I know others also getting every, or almost every ban reversed.

[_galaxy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh ÁROCK!!!:

Diposting pertama kali oleh _galaxy:

I had a ban overtuned from steam support as well these last few days it proves their system isn't perfect. You might be "getting" a story here but you still can't see the problem. This "story" will simply allow you to avoid any actual criticism to the system while you keep the head in the sand.

My last 6 or so have been overturned, and I know others also getting every, or almost every ban reversed.

I heard a rumour that (I don't know if it's true) moderators get paid for the ban. Naturally this incentivizes more bans. It would explain a lot of problems with the system.

[Zoopy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh BRUSHRAT:

Most bans issued by 'a member of steam support' aren't even accurate, or equal. I can't believe someones willing to give them money in return for the awful job they do.

I don't think Steam really cares that the moderation is bad. They probably only care that the job is getting done and they don't have to worry about it. It's clear that Steam Support don't properly read posts when responding to reports, and they definitely don't read the surrounding context on posts before issuing bans.

I've had two bans from Steam Support overturned by Steam Support, where the agents admitted that the ban reasons didn't make any sense or were very excessive. This is a common problem and I've got a couple of friends who also had to have bans overturned. And because Steam punishes "too many" bans with community restrictions, you can't just ignore the unfair or ridiculous bans. You have to appeal them to prevent them from racking up and causing account restrictions later.

[Crazy Tiger]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Zoopy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh BRUSHRAT:

Most bans issued by 'a member of steam support' aren't even accurate, or equal. I can't believe someones willing to give them money in return for the awful job they do.

I don't think Steam really cares that the moderation is bad. They probably only care that the job is getting done and they don't have to worry about it. It's clear that Steam Support don't properly read posts when responding to reports, and they definitely don't read the surrounding context on posts before issuing bans.

I've had two bans from Steam Support overturned by Steam Support, where the agents admitted that the ban reasons didn't make any sense or were very excessive. This is a common problem and I've got a couple of friends who also had to have bans overturned. And because Steam punishes "too many" bans with community restrictions, you can't just ignore the unfair or ridiculous bans. You have to appeal them to prevent them from racking up and causing account restrictions later.

It's a bit confusing that they have two teams that operate under the naming "member of Steam Support". Actual Steam Support and the outsourced paid mods both get called that. However, the reports are processed by the latter group, not the former. The appeals do get to the real Steam Support, not the paid mods.

So basically, it's Steam support overturning the bans of the paid outsourced mods. Who indeed only check the reported post and not the context.

[Dimenio]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Zoopy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shreddy:

If I was a Dev I wouldn't want people having in depth debates about religion or politics in my forum so that totally makes sense but to start banning people for mentioning religion when they simply asked why the Easter event with free items was no longer being put on is pathetic, especially when the Dev plasters every alt-left political talking point in their news section and in the game itself.

Rocket League has been around for quite a while now and I've played it for most of that time, over the years the Dev interactions went from being wholesome and fun with absolutely zero mention of politics to now what appears to be a clear agenda that they are forcing on the player base. It's these people who are pushing politics (and lets be honest a cult like religion) on people, not me. The idea that I can lose functionality on this account that I have poured thousands into as a result of this is quite frankly unacceptable.

I have to be honest, now that you've elaborated, I understand why you got banned. I think it's clear that we're only getting half the story from you, but the half you've told is enough so that it's easy to fill in the blanks.

Yeah the person you've replied to is seemingly closer to a conservative world view... why does that give any ground to ban him though? I don't share many conservative views but the literal purge platforms like this have executed on right wing people makes me a bit ashamed to belong to the left honestly. It's like people on the left don't understand the difference between hate and just having different views on things.

The point he brings up about spending a lot of money only to get functionality removed for applying a very vague set of rules is also very valid. Steam never told me when that got into the TOS and I sure as hell wouldn't have agreed to that if they told me. If you spend thousands of dollars on the platform then removing the ability to post screenshots because you told some annoying person to go to hell for example is ridiculous.

And let's be honest most of the people who received bans or warnings have seen how the community guildelines look like in practice, like I'm sure you've seen ban reasons like this one:

This post contains content that is argumentative or is likely to derail the discussion. This type of content is not allowed on the Steam Community.

This is laughable, you can get banned because you posted an argument and they suspect that it will derail. Getting banned on the possibility of something is right out of Minority Report, it's not real and shouldn't be treated as such. You receive 3 bans like this and you can't post screenshots? Really? That's what you're defending?

[Zoopy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh _galaxy:

I had a ban overtuned from steam support as well these last few days it proves their system isn't perfect. You might be "getting" a story here but you still can't see the problem. This "story" will simply allow you to avoid any actual criticism to the system while you keep the head in the sand.

I have plenty of criticism for the moderation system. I've also just seen this song and dance plenty of times so that I know when the whiff of BS is in the air.

That poster said "the Dev plasters every alt-left political talking point in their news section and in the game itself", so I checked it out for myself. The only remotely "political" thing in the news section is a post supporting LGBTQ Pride in... pride month. And it had to be locked after only two pages due to toxicity from the usual suspects. If that is what the poster considers "alt-left political talking points", then it's very easy to see what really went on.

[Dimenio]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Zoopy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh _galaxy:

I had a ban overtuned from steam support as well these last few days it proves their system isn't perfect. You might be "getting" a story here but you still can't see the problem. This "story" will simply allow you to avoid any actual criticism to the system while you keep the head in the sand.

I have plenty of criticism for the moderation system. I've also just seen this song and dance plenty of times so that I know when the whiff of BS is in the air.

That poster said "the Dev plasters every alt-left political talking point in their news section and in the game itself", so I checked it out for myself. The only remotely "political" thing in the news section is a post supporting LGBTQ Pride in... pride month. And it had to be locked after only two pages due to toxicity from the usual suspects. If that is what the poster considers "alt-left political talking points", then it's very easy to see what really went on.

I take every opportunity to be critical of posts like this myself even as a supporter of said cause. Why? Because it's companies doing it and stuff like that doesn't belong in the news section of a Steam community hub exactly because of the no politics rule.

The reality is that a majority of the population couldn't care less about Pride month (that can be anything from indifference to being against it and to getting annoyed by news notifications about it in places where it has no place) and companies should respect that instead of shoving it in our faces in the hopes of some extra profit.

[Zoopy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dimenio:

I take every opportunity to be critical of posts like this myself even as a supporter of said cause. Why? Because it's companies doing it and stuff like that doesn't belong in the news section of a Steam community hub exactly because of the no politics rule.

The reality is that a majority of the population couldn't care less about Pride month (that can be anything from indifference to being against it and to getting annoyed by news notifications about it in places where it has no place) and companies should respect that instead of shoving it in our faces in the hopes of some extra profit.

Nah, disagree. As a ♥♥♥ person, it's a nice gesture and if anyone doesn't like it, they don't have to read that news post. Your life is in no way worse for seeing a news post that you don't like. And that's ignoring the fact that the existence of LGBTQ people is not "politics".

Besides, I see plenty of people voicing their opposition to it without getting banned. It's usually very specific types of "opposition" that get banned.

[The Commendatore]

Yeah, nah. If you manage to get banned across multiple hubs in that time span, then you should have a timeout.

[Zoopy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh The Commendatore:

Yeah, nah. If you manage to get banned across multiple hubs in that time span, then you should have a timeout.

Nah, if Steam Support is regularly reverting hub bans, then it's a sign that something is wrong with the moderation. 3 bans are enough to get you a community ban.

Please read the full thread before dropping in with such hot takes.

[Dimenio]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Zoopy:

And that's ignoring the fact that the existence of LGBTQ people is not "politics".

The existence of poor or sick people isn't politics either but how companies and the government deal with them has everything to do with politics. Back to the topic though.

What does a politician do in a political campaign? They try to appeal to a generally wide demographic by targeting segments of their perceived voters through political campaigning. So they say and do things that would appeal to black people, the LGBTQ etc, that's what politics is.

Companies do the same. When it comes to corporations Pride month is not a gesture, it's a targeted marketing campaign where the goal is indeed to appeal to the LGBTQ so that they will go "oh this company is so nice for thinking of people like me" and they'll buy their products. It's a political marketing campaign the same way how back in the early 20th century tobacco companies released ads under the guise of supporting feminism so that more women would smoke. Have tobacco companies ever done anything for feminism by saying "if you smoke you're an independent woman"? No, they just caused a bunch of cancer.

So if we establish that appealing to a certain group of people based on gender, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ orientation or other politically relevant features is politics then it's easy to see why posts like that frustrate certain people and why they don't belong in Steam news.

[The Commendatore]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Zoopy:

Diposting pertama kali oleh The Commendatore:

Yeah, nah. If you manage to get banned across multiple hubs in that time span, then you should have a timeout.

Nah, if Steam Support is regularly reverting hub bans, then it's a sign that something is wrong with the moderation. 3 bans are enough to get you a community ban.

Please read the full thread before dropping in with such hot takes.

And getting 3 bans within rapid succession is enough reason to time someone out.

[Dimenio]

Diposting pertama kali oleh The Commendatore:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Zoopy:

Nah, if Steam Support is regularly reverting hub bans, then it's a sign that something is wrong with the moderation. 3 bans are enough to get you a community ban.

Please read the full thread before dropping in with such hot takes.

And getting 3 bans within rapid succession is enough reason to time someone out.

You don't need to get the bans in rapid succession.