Sharing games in family view

[scauwe]

Family view does not support game sharing, but only game library sharing. This means that, as soon as one person is playing any game that you are sharing, all other family members are blocked from playing any other game as well.
So, say I have:
* 2 children: child A and child B
* 5 games: game 1 to 5
If child A starts playing game 1, then child B is blocked from playing game 2 to 5, even though I bought licenses.

This severe limitation is not very well documented, and also not very well known by support:
* Support advised me to buy additional licenses if you want both children to be able to play. This will not help as these are still in the same library.
* Supportt informed me that the "Family Share feature allows to share the game only to one user at a time" which is incorrect: it allows you to share ALL games to only one user at a time.

For now, the only workaround I have found is crating a new account for every game I buy for my children. This might be good for bumping up the number of Steam customers, but this is not practical at all. On top of that, this does not help with my current problem where I bought all games with one account.

Stefaan

[Brian9824]

scauwe eredeti hozzászólása:

My solution:
* 1 account per game you buy
* 1 account per user who wants to play.
With that setup, all games can be played by all users. Just not the same game at the same time. I assumed that was how family view worked. Quod non :-(
Luckily we have a password manager these days to remember all usernames and passwords for this setup. User friendly: no, not at all. But you are forced.

Yep, and having to manage 300+ steam accounts is enough of a deterrent that the developers are ok with that. It also works on all sites, not just steam.

[scauwe]

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

because it would facilitate widescale abuse

I really doubt that. I have only 2 children, and they are already fighting over who can play.
Trying to abuse this game sharing by sharing a game with eg 50 users would generate a lot of frustration amongst the abusers because the game would be "in use" al the time by someone; You would need a separate agenda or reservation app to keep track of who can play when. I would assume that abusers would get frustrated and either stop playing the game, or just buy it themselves.

[Brian9824]

scauwe eredeti hozzászólása:

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

because it would facilitate widescale abuse

I really doubt that. I have only 2 children, and they are already fighting over who can play.
Trying to abuse this game sharing by sharing a game with eg 50 users would generate a lot of frustration amongst the abusers because the game would be "in use" al the time by someone; You would need a separate agenda or reservation app to keep track of who can play when. I would assume that abusers would get frustrated and either stop playing the game, or just buy it themselves.

I'm not saying YOU would abuse it, but others would.

People would buy for instance 1 copy of starfield and Baldurs Gate 3 and then share with friends and take turns beating it instead of buying their own copy. So by the time they are done 15 people have all played and beaten the same copy of the game and it sold 1 copy instead of say 10. Now multiply that by millions of users......

Or once they beat it they will rent out access to their account and start charging people for that game. I mean just look on ebay and you will see people doing the exact same thing already with offline access and family sharing NOW.

Loosening it will make it far more prevalent.

[scauwe]

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

Yep, and having to manage 300+ steam accounts is enough of a deterrent that the developers are ok with that.

I never need to log in into the "buy" accounts once the game is shared. So, I should even be able to completely forget about them (but my password manager will remember it for me anyhow).

[Brian9824]

Yet people wonder why dev's opt out of family sharing and do everything they can to restrict it....

[scauwe]

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not saying YOU would abuse it,

No worries: I also did not imply that you did that.

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

People would buy for instance 1 copy of starfield and BG3 and then share with friends and take turns beating it instead of buying their own copy.

Or once they beat it they will rent out access to their account and start charging people. I mean just look on ebay and you will see people doing the exact same thing already with offline access and family sharing NOW.

Loosening it will make it far more prevalent.

Yes, but now you are, in stead of being at least user friendly to the regular customer by giving them a good sharing possibility, forcing all users to work around the system by creating one account per game bought. I don't see the added value in that at all.
* protection against renting or selling: 0
* frustration of regular user: 1
Bad score if you ask me.

[Brian9824]

scauwe eredeti hozzászólása:

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not saying YOU would abuse it,

No worries: I also did not imply that you did that.

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

People would buy for instance 1 copy of starfield and BG3 and then share with friends and take turns beating it instead of buying their own copy.

Or once they beat it they will rent out access to their account and start charging people. I mean just look on ebay and you will see people doing the exact same thing already with offline access and family sharing NOW.

Loosening it will make it far more prevalent.

Yes, but now you are, in stead of being at least user friendly to the regular customer by giving them a good sharing possibility, forcing all users to work around the system by creating one account per game bought. I don't see the added value in that at all.
* protection against renting or selling: 0
* frustration of regular user: 1
Bad score if you ask me.

Again check ebay, its ALREADY being abused. They aren't going to make it even easier to abuse, it was hard enough to get developers to agree to the CURRENT restrictions, they aren't going to agree to making sharing of their games super easy.....

Every developer can pull their game from family sharing at any time for any reason. If its easy to abuse they will ALL pull it.

I mean I could make a fortune charging "my friends" access to the hundreds of games I have on my account that i'm not playing. It would be a lucrative business and cost the developers BILLIONS.

[Pickle Wick]

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

scauwe eredeti hozzászólása:

No worries: I also did not imply that you did that.



Yes, but now you are, in stead of being at least user friendly to the regular customer by giving them a good sharing possibility, forcing all users to work around the system by creating one account per game bought. I don't see the added value in that at all.
* protection against renting or selling: 0
* frustration of regular user: 1
Bad score if you ask me.

Again check ebay, its ALREADY being abused. They aren't going to make it even easier to abuse, it was hard enough to get developers to agree to the CURRENT restrictions, they aren't going to agree to making sharing of their games super easy.....

Every developer can pull their game from family sharing at any time for any reason. If its easy to abuse they will ALL pull it.

I mean I could make a fortune charging "my friends" access to the hundreds of games I have on my account that i'm not playing. It would be a lucrative business and cost the developers BILLIONS.

No I think as a previous user stated "It works exactly as steam intended"

Honestly i would be just as happy if steam would pull their drm tools and just tell the devs to fend for themselves, if the devs are going to implement drm functionality into their game then thats up to them but steam shouldn't be assisting them in these practices. its really the steam limitation that makes this a pain in the A$$ for people trying to share with their actual children and imposes a mere inconvenience for people actually abusing it and even making money doing so in some cases

as Ive stated before i will buy from gog from here forward given the choice, Heck i would even pay 2x the price from gog if need be just so i can let my kids play them, I should have the right to hand my child my steamdeck loaded with paw patrol and not hinder me playing sea of thieves

[scauwe]

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

Again check ebay, its ALREADY being abused.

That's why I say:
* protection against renting or selling: 0

This Steam limitation does not help at all against this kind af abuse. The abusers know the limitation and how to wrok around them. Regular users what to use the sharing legally, but are confronted with the limitations.
That's why I say:
* frustration of regular user: 1

[Start_Running]

scauwe eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes, if you do read the documentation well, it is stated that you are sharing the library. You only realise with this actually means if you have more than one game. For this reason, this should be made more clear and obvious.
On top of that, it basically just annoys users: you can simply work around it by creating a new account for every game you buy, so the limitation itself is useless.

The limitation is to keep people froom operating game rental stores out of their library. In which case. it works.

The better solution might just be to well, get your kids to agree on a schedule. Like many of us had to do in ye olde days when there was one console hooked up to the family room tv. Also encourage them to save up to buy their own games at some point. Let them know if they want a game they have to cover at least half the price.. That way from your perspective you can buy two games for the relative cost of one.

There's offline playing where possible but the point is that there's a balance. Publishers, devs and valve know what will happen if they grant anymore liberties than they have now. And since family share is something dev/pubs opt into, it'd make no sense for Valve to change the system in a way that'd have most dev/pubs opting out of it.

[Pickle Wick]

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

scauwe eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes, if you do read the documentation well, it is stated that you are sharing the library. You only realise with this actually means if you have more than one game. For this reason, this should be made more clear and obvious.
On top of that, it basically just annoys users: you can simply work around it by creating a new account for every game you buy, so the limitation itself is useless.

The limitation is to keep people froom operating game rental stores out of their library. In which case. it works.

The better solution might just be to well, get your kids to agree on a schedule. Like many of us had to do in ye olde days when there was one console hooked up to the family room tv. Also encourage them to save up to buy their own games at some point. Let them know if they want a game they have to cover at least half the price.. That way from your perspective you can buy two games for the relative cost of one.

There's offline playing where possible but the point is that there's a balance. Publishers, devs and valve know what will happen if they grant anymore liberties than they have now. And since family share is something dev/pubs opt into, it'd make no sense for Valve to change the system in a way that'd have most dev/pubs opting out of it.

This sounds like a nightmare, these games are bound to an account, so basically i tell my child to save up money to buy a game for a account pool of games where the ownership of said game is then tied too meaning the freedom of their library is tied to a community of there brothers and sisters and various friends that come over.

here is a better idea, you know since you wanna go back to "yea olde days" maybe start a steam trade in program so children can trade in their old games towards the latest greatest new game like we used to do back in the day, or maybe look at the release date of these titles and only tie them "family sharing" restrictions to titles of similar date and requirement to simulate different generations of consoles and allow us to sell a collection of games of a certain generation to simulate the selling of a console, My point is these rules being compared to the "yea olde days" is a slap in the face to the freedom we had in the old days of gaming, the experience of going to the local game store and trading your old games in for the new title or looking through the used games bin are long gone and steam killed it. Steam has gone to the mentality of "You will own nothing and be happy" long before that phrase was even a thing

I would never encourage my children to do as you suggest as there is no sense of ownership whatsoever. i would rather buy them a wii and ecourage them to buy physical media, at least then they get a sense of ownership

[Gwarsbane]

Pickle Wick eredeti hozzászólása:

This sounds like a nightmare, these games are bound to an account, so basically i tell my child to save up money to buy a game for a account pool of games where the ownership of said game is then tied too meaning the freedom of their library is tied to a community of there brothers and sisters and various friends that come over.

here is a better idea, you know since you wanna go back to "yea olde days" maybe start a steam trade in program so children can trade in their old games towards the latest greatest new game like we used to do back in the day, or maybe look at the release date of these titles and only tie them "family sharing" restrictions to titles of similar date and requirement to simulate different generations of consoles and allow us to sell a collection of games of a certain generation to simulate the selling of a console, My point is these rules being compared to the "yea olde days" is a slap in the face to the freedom we had in the old days of gaming, the experience of going to the local game store and trading your old games in for the new title or looking through the used games bin are long gone and steam killed it. Steam has gone to the mentality of "You will own nothing and be happy" long before that phrase was even a thing

I would never encourage my children to do as you suggest as there is no sense of ownership whatsoever. i would rather buy them a wii and ecourage them to buy physical media, at least then they get a sense of ownership

Your used games are worth exactly $0.00000000000000000 To Valve. Why? Because they literally have unlimited room to store keys for game because keys for games take up such a tiny amount of drive space in a text file its virtually unlimited. They can literally make up millions of keys for any game (at the developers request) in seconds to minutes.

Good luck encouraging your kids to buying physical media when there is in fact no game on those physical medias and they still get tied to an account meaning you can't sell or trade them to anyone unless those people are looking for paper weights or coasters.

Again as mentioned, companies are moving away from physical media and even the stuff you buy doesn't have the games on them most of the time anymore because the games are too big to fit on one disc and its getting harder to buy PCs that have a space for a CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive and none of them come with it anymore. Even the consoles are trying to do away with physical media.

WIIs will eventually become harder and harder to find along with their games, they will become more expensive because there is a lack of supply. Just look at all those old Atari/NES/SNES and so on cartridges, they are becoming more and more expensive. Retro gaming is getting harder and harder to do. So sure get them into it. But they will still want to play the games their friends are playing, and most will not be playing retro games.

[Pickle Wick]

Gwarsbane eredeti hozzászólása:

Pickle Wick eredeti hozzászólása:

This sounds like a nightmare, these games are bound to an account, so basically i tell my child to save up money to buy a game for a account pool of games where the ownership of said game is then tied too meaning the freedom of their library is tied to a community of there brothers and sisters and various friends that come over.

here is a better idea, you know since you wanna go back to "yea olde days" maybe start a steam trade in program so children can trade in their old games towards the latest greatest new game like we used to do back in the day, or maybe look at the release date of these titles and only tie them "family sharing" restrictions to titles of similar date and requirement to simulate different generations of consoles and allow us to sell a collection of games of a certain generation to simulate the selling of a console, My point is these rules being compared to the "yea olde days" is a slap in the face to the freedom we had in the old days of gaming, the experience of going to the local game store and trading your old games in for the new title or looking through the used games bin are long gone and steam killed it. Steam has gone to the mentality of "You will own nothing and be happy" long before that phrase was even a thing

I would never encourage my children to do as you suggest as there is no sense of ownership whatsoever. i would rather buy them a wii and ecourage them to buy physical media, at least then they get a sense of ownership

Your used games are worth exactly $0.00000000000000000 To Valve. Why? Because they literally have unlimited room to store keys for game because keys for games take up such a tiny amount of drive space in a text file its virtually unlimited. They can literally make up millions of keys for any game (at the developers request) in seconds to minutes.

Good luck encouraging your kids to buying physical media when there is in fact no game on those physical medias and they still get tied to an account meaning you can't sell or trade them to anyone unless those people are looking for paper weights or coasters.

Again as mentioned, companies are moving away from physical media and even the stuff you buy doesn't have the games on them most of the time anymore because the games are too big to fit on one disc and its getting harder to buy PCs that have a space for a CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive and none of them come with it anymore. Even the consoles are trying to do away with physical media.

WIIs will eventually become harder and harder to find along with their games, they will become more expensive because there is a lack of supply. Just look at all those old Atari/NES/SNES and so on cartridges, they are becoming more and more expensive. Retro gaming is getting harder and harder to do. So sure get them into it. But they will still want to play the games their friends are playing, and most will not be playing retro games.

You missed the entire point on my comment, my entire comment was addressing a previous comment on how you should make your kids share an account and budget playtime with siblings like in the old days growing up with one console and i was pointing out how them days are long gone and that steam killed them.

and your right. steam games are worth exactly $0.00. your entire account is based on the phrase "subscription" and can be revoked at any time, you own absolutely nothing on steam nor can you buy anything on steam. as stated we are simply buying a text document with a key stored in it that we never actually see or download. Welcome to steam! where you will own nothing and be happy!

Btw there is a physical game on those disks, the only time the game is tied to a key is when its a steam game on that disk, example if i bought skyrim on a pc disk the game will be tied to steam and selling the disk would mean nothing as the key is not transferred, now skyrim on ps4 has no such limitation so yes, when you buy skyrim on ps4 you do own a physical copy on disk that can be resold at anytime even if your entire account or console gets banned ( yes mind blowing, i know! )

[scauwe]

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Let them know if they want a game they have to cover at least half the price.. That way from your perspective you can buy two games for the relative cost of one.

I encourage them to join forces and save and buy the game together. So each one gets the ability to play the game for half the price. This library sharing now has as a side effect that if one is playing the new game, the other one can no longer play the old game. So they now get frustrated with the "joining forces" idea.

[scauwe]

OK, now for the latest update on this issue:

Since valve/steam did not want to help me to set up my accounts and games compatible with the forced method by Steam to enable game sharing (one account=one game), I had to do it myself: I contacted Paypal to ask a refund so that I could buy the game with a new account. After I got the refund, Steam is now blocking me to buy the same game again with my Paypal account ?!? My Paypal account is now blocked from buying games on steam! Unbelieveable.
Feedback for now: the support person is unable to see why my paypal account is blocked for making purchases, and cannot unblock it.
Steam/valve was already very frustrating product & software, but this now tops everything.