White Lion 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 4:19
Prevent Toxic Users Exploiting a Loophole
This is just an idea which I think will benefit everyone, including the game developers too.

So I notice a loophole which toxic users can exploit just to destroy reputation and prices. The steps are explained below:

  1. They buy the game.
  2. They play it for a few minutes or not at all.
  3. They write negative reviews, without full explanation of which part is bad. They only say a few sentence which basically mock the game or developer.
  4. They request Steam for full refund.
  5. They use multiple cloned accounts to do the above actions.
  6. They wait for the negative reviews to build up.
  7. Low scores motivate developers to give very high discount just to attract new buyers.
  8. They eventually buy the game again after the high discount is applied.

I just think it's very unfair for the game developers in many cases. Especially when a dissatisfied employee does it or an employee from a competitor does it.

So my suggestion to Steam is that Steam should delete and disable any review of a game/DLC from a user if that user request a full refund for that game/DLC.

If someone want to write negative reviews, then he must at least spend money for it. The negative review will be a "reflection of spending money in a bad game".

If they get full refund, then they don't spend any money. So they have nothing to lose. But the developers already suffer from their bad review.

So this is a loophole which toxic users normally exploit.

It's just unfair also for new comers who wanted to buy the game, but got negatively influenced by the low score from those toxic users. The scores should represent what every people think about the game, but only for those that truly spend money on it, without refund.

Although I'm purely a consumer, I still would like to uphold justice in any way possible. So Steam please start deleting all negative reviews from users, if they already got full refund for those games/DLCs. Because they lost nothing at all. If other players also want to buy the game but eventually hate the game, they can also ask for full refund as well. Nothing to lose on their side either.

But the negative reviews already accumulate to a certain amount that it become disruptive for the developers. It's a black marketing strategy from toxic users.
最后由 White Lion 编辑于; 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 7:54
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正在显示第 1 - 15 条,共 100 条留言
Brian9824 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 4:54 
Steam already had multiple ways to deal with this oeth review bombs, removing accounts ability to refund, etc.

Your idea would result in buyers being hurt because bad games would be overwhelmingly positive, as no one could leave a negative review without losing the money they spent on the game.

The scenario you described is rare, and no one is doing it to the point that it's causing devs to lower prices. If you want to claim otherwise can you cite your sources?
Zukabazuka 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 5:10 
You would have to buy over 1000 games of the same game to generate this effect on reviews. Second they would have to remake their bank card every single time but even that would be caught easily due to your real name being linked to that card. Your bank would most likely get warnings in their system of odds behavior on your account.

All in all it all sounds impossible to do alone. You would need at least 500 people to do this.
White Lion 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 5:12 
引用自 brian9824
Steam already had multiple ways to deal with this oeth review bombs, removing accounts ability to refund, etc.

Your idea would result in buyers being hurt because bad games would be overwhelmingly positive, as no one could leave a negative review without losing the money they spent on the game.

The scenario you described is rare, and no one is doing it to the point that it's causing devs to lower prices. If you want to claim otherwise can you cite your sources?
Not really. In fact many buyers do this for the sake of toxic mindset.

For example, why would they leave negative review just because of the game price? I mean, if the game is too expensive then why would they force themselves to buy it just to write negative reviews about it? Just don't buy it and leave it alone. Prices can not be a justification for negative reviews. But it happen most of the time for all AAA games in recent years.

One case for sure happen with Starfield. If they can't afford $70 then play mobile games for free. They should not ruin the reputation of Starfield, just because they desperately want it but can't afford it. It's a loophole that they obviously will use.

Another example is when a DLC receive tons of negative reviews just because its game play style is not aligned with the game play style of certain players.

Every human being has their own preference of game play style. So a hundred player who happen to buy them first, has great advantage to influence other players who hasn't bought them, by writing negative reviews in advance. While new comers are suppose to hate it too just because of the low score? When in fact its just a matter of game play style preferences. It's irrational right?

What if the other 1 thousand new comers want to buy it because the game play style suits them well, but they didn't buy it just because of the negative reviews from the first 100 toxic players? It happen a lot in DLCs for Europa Universalis 4.

I'm glad I ignored those kind of irrational reviews, because I bought them anyway and enjoyed it.

But I felt sorry for the developers, because they suffer bad reputation from those first 100 toxic players, who prefer a game play style differently from what the developers have created. On the other hand, those first 100 toxic users lose nothing at all, because they got their money back anyway.

If you are one of these toxic users, please stop what you are doing. If you think a game or DLC is bad, just get a refund and be done with it. Don't try influence new buyers with your negative reviews, because they might actually enjoy the game, even though you don't.
最后由 White Lion 编辑于; 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 5:15
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 5:17 
引用自 Death Star
引用自 brian9824
Steam already had multiple ways to deal with this oeth review bombs, removing accounts ability to refund, etc.

Your idea would result in buyers being hurt because bad games would be overwhelmingly positive, as no one could leave a negative review without losing the money they spent on the game.

The scenario you described is rare, and no one is doing it to the point that it's causing devs to lower prices. If you want to claim otherwise can you cite your sources?
Not really. In fact many buyers do this for the sake of toxic mindset.

For example, why would they leave negative review just because of the game price? I mean, if the game is too expensive then why would they force themselves to buy it just to write negative reviews about it? Just don't buy it and leave it alone. Prices can not be a justification for negative reviews. But it happen most of the time for all AAA games in recent years.

One case for sure happen with Starfield. If they can't afford $70 then play mobile games for free. They should not ruin the reputation of Starfield, just because they desperately want it but can't afford it. It's a loophole that they obviously will use.

Another example is when a DLC receive tons of negative reviews just because its game play style is not aligned with the game play style of certain players.

Every human being has their own preference of game play style. So a hundred player who happen to buy them first, has great advantage to influence other players who hasn't bought them, by writing negative reviews in advance. While new comers are suppose to hate it too just because of the low score? When in fact its just a matter of game play style preferences. It's irrational right?

What if the other 1 thousand new comers want to buy it because the game play style suits them well, but they didn't buy it just because of the negative reviews from the first 100 toxic players? It happen a lot in DLCs for Europa Universalis 4.

I'm glad I ignored those kind of irrational reviews, because I bought them anyway and enjoyed it.

But I felt sorry for the developers, because they suffer bad reputation from those first 100 toxic players, who prefer a game play style differently from what the developers have created. On the other hand, those first 100 toxic users lose nothing at all, because they got their money back anyway.

If you are one of these toxic users, please stop what you are doing. If you think a game or DLC is bad, just get a refund and be done with it. Don't try influence new buyers with your negative reviews, because they might actually enjoy the game, even though you don't.


They can leave a negative review if they want. You getting upset at such doesn't change the validity of their review.
Crazy Tiger 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 5:31 
So, basically "Games/DLC I like get negative reviews and I can't have that".

Negative reviews, and especially from people who refunded it, are the ones I find the most interesting. It's very anti-consumer to want to delete reviews just because the person refunded the game/DLC.
Brian9824 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 5:40 
Again OP, can you name 1 game that is effected by this and what you described occured?

Once again, your ignoring that your "solution" would remove basically every negative review warning people that a game is broken or non functional forcing someone to get a refund or be stuck with an unplayable game....
Tito Shivan 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 6:00 
First: there's no proof this happens in enough large volumes as to affect review scores in a significant way.

Second: Users doing that will get their ability to refund revoked after than they'd be able to affect review scores.

Third: This 'loophole' requires actually spending money (which MAY or MAY NOT be returned back to the original payment method after the refund) That's an incredible high friction hurdle to scale this kind of behaviour.

Fourth: There's people out there who don't like the things you do. Their opinion is as valid as yours. There's no conspiracy or secret cabal of people changing reviews. Grown over it.

引用自 Anxiety
Everyone on these forums knows that it's Valve employees, former moderators and Steam cultists who do that. There's a reason this loophole exists.
:Deer:
You forgot the Lizardmen of the deep state and the people of the hollow earth.

引用自 SlowMango
They can leave a negative review if they want. You getting upset at such doesn't change the validity of their review.
Bought BL3, tried to play it for an hour and a half before noticing it's not playable using the arrow keys for movements (as they're hardcoded to emotes and can't be changed). So I went, wrote negative review and refunded.
Tanoomba 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 6:33 
引用自 Death Star
I just think it's very unfair for the game developers in many cases. Especially when a dissatisfied employee does it or an employee from a competitor does it.
What has convinced you that this happens at all, let alone on a grand enough scale to have a significant effect on a game's aggregate? And why would you assume that jilted employees or competitor engage in this practise?

引用自 Death Star
So my suggestion to Steam is that Steam should delete and disable any review of a game/DLC from a user if that user request a full refund for that game/DLC.
What if a game releases with significant technical issues that prevent the majority of players from being able to play it at all? Should they be forced to keep a game they can't play just because they want to write a review explaining the issues they had and (justifiably) not recommending the game?

引用自 Death Star
So this is a loophole which toxic users normally exploit.
Even if this does happen (and you haven't shown that it does), it would have to happen on a massive scale to affect a game's aggregate, and that seems extremely unlikely.

引用自 Death Star
It's just unfair also for new comers who wanted to buy the game, but got negatively influenced by the low score from those toxic users.
But as soon as a game gets a few hundred reviews (and most bog-name games get much, MUCH more), then those bad-faith reviews (if they exist at all) become insignificant.
Start_Running 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 6:36 
You can always adjust your review display to filter out such reviews.
Anxiety 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 6:37 
引用自 Tanoomba
What if a game releases with significant technical issues that prevent the majority of players from being able to play it at all? Should they be forced to keep a game they can't play just because they want to write a review explaining the issues they had and (justifiably) not recommending the game?
Yes, because punishing users for their bad choices and/or bad tastes is always a good idea.
:Deer:
Phénomènes Mystiques 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 6:58 
I have seen some developers do the reverse for positive reviews and w/o Valve doing anything.
76561199502155650 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 7:16 
This actually makes alot of sense, but its not your typical user doing this.

it is a competitive marketing strategy, such as huge corporations using it at high volumes to tank other studios in the attempt to aquire them after bankruptcy.

you can and should note several extremely large and highly renown companies that pick up bankrupted gaming studios.

what you just discribed can easily be translated into marketing fraud.

alot of small studios put time and money into games with no room for failure, major corparations then use this ploy with thousands of accounts to sway public interest and cause pressure of failure to the studio in the attempt to bankrupt and steal / aquire all the assets.

examples of gaming studios this was done to on a high level would be things like

CD redkit
Bethesda
Activision
TellTale Games

these are just a few that where put under pressure and many of them folded
you can dig deeper into bankrupted gaming studios for a full list.

there are some pretty major titles that had alot of appeal that suddently went bankrupt because a new game didn't profit.

While most of want to believe the reviews of others, its recommended that if people are going around at high levels saying a game is extremely bad, you should take a leap of faith and try it, you will be suprised it is most likely a very good game, and just another company trying to aquire it cheap, so they can rebrand it and profit.
White Lion 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 7:39 
引用自 Crazy Tiger
So, basically "Games/DLC I like get negative reviews and I can't have that".

Negative reviews, and especially from people who refunded it, are the ones I find the most interesting. It's very anti-consumer to want to delete reviews just because the person refunded the game/DLC.

Is anyone able to write any review if they don't buy the game? No.

It is because writing reviews are only valid for people who own the game. Not for people who do not own the game.

So how do we exploit a loophole, so that anyone can write any kind of review without even owning the game?

Buy it, play it for 5 minutes or less or don't play at all. Write a review, then ask for full refund.

Toxic users love this loophole. Those who defend it, are basically the toxic users themselves.
White Lion 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 7:40 
引用自 Tito Shivan
First: there's no proof this happens in enough large volumes as to affect review scores in a significant way.

Second: Users doing that will get their ability to refund revoked after than they'd be able to affect review scores.

Third: This 'loophole' requires actually spending money (which MAY or MAY NOT be returned back to the original payment method after the refund) That's an incredible high friction hurdle to scale this kind of behaviour.

Fourth: There's people out there who don't like the things you do. Their opinion is as valid as yours. There's no conspiracy or secret cabal of people changing reviews. Grown over it.

引用自 Anxiety
Everyone on these forums knows that it's Valve employees, former moderators and Steam cultists who do that. There's a reason this loophole exists.
:Deer:
You forgot the Lizardmen of the deep state and the people of the hollow earth.

引用自 SlowMango
They can leave a negative review if they want. You getting upset at such doesn't change the validity of their review.
Bought BL3, tried to play it for an hour and a half before noticing it's not playable using the arrow keys for movements (as they're hardcoded to emotes and can't be changed). So I went, wrote negative review and refunded.

Is anyone able to write any review if they don't buy the game? No.

It is because writing reviews are only valid for people who own the game. Not for people who do not own the game.

So how do we exploit a loophole, so that anyone can write any kind of review without even owning the game?

Buy it, play it for 5 minutes or less or don't play at all. Write a review, then ask for full refund.

Toxic users love this loophole. Those who defend it, are basically the toxic users themselves.
White Lion 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 7:40 
引用自 Tanoomba
引用自 Death Star
I just think it's very unfair for the game developers in many cases. Especially when a dissatisfied employee does it or an employee from a competitor does it.
What has convinced you that this happens at all, let alone on a grand enough scale to have a significant effect on a game's aggregate? And why would you assume that jilted employees or competitor engage in this practise?

引用自 Death Star
So my suggestion to Steam is that Steam should delete and disable any review of a game/DLC from a user if that user request a full refund for that game/DLC.
What if a game releases with significant technical issues that prevent the majority of players from being able to play it at all? Should they be forced to keep a game they can't play just because they want to write a review explaining the issues they had and (justifiably) not recommending the game?

引用自 Death Star
So this is a loophole which toxic users normally exploit.
Even if this does happen (and you haven't shown that it does), it would have to happen on a massive scale to affect a game's aggregate, and that seems extremely unlikely.

引用自 Death Star
It's just unfair also for new comers who wanted to buy the game, but got negatively influenced by the low score from those toxic users.
But as soon as a game gets a few hundred reviews (and most bog-name games get much, MUCH more), then those bad-faith reviews (if they exist at all) become insignificant.

Is anyone able to write any review if they don't buy the game? No.

It is because writing reviews are only valid for people who own the game. Not for people who do not own the game.

So how do we exploit a loophole, so that anyone can write any kind of review without even owning the game?

Buy it, play it for 5 minutes or less or don't play at all. Write a review, then ask for full refund.

Toxic users love this loophole. Those who defend it, are basically the toxic users themselves.

If other users experience similar case like you, then they can ask for full refund. Nothing to lose on your side. Nothing to lose for everybody else.

The only one losing here is the developer, if those negative reviews are just about game price or game play style.
最后由 White Lion 编辑于; 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 7:47
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发帖日期: 2023 年 7 月 4 日 上午 4:19
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