TOS review of Game Developers/Publishers posting contentious topics and how users can interact to it.

[CateredGamerGator]

Please scroll all the way down and read all of my replies to the replyers if you do read the replies. I give more explanations on my points. it's important to see all sides of the argument. (some (but not all) tried to paint me in a bad picture but I've explain myself to counteract those comments.)
(Changed tittle since It charge people's emotions and that I want to revise my main objective on what I want to explain.)
(NOTE: This is a philosophical point. mainly saying that if devs want to post stuff that can be political in nature and when it's contentious then people should be able to post stuff respectfully to express how they disagree. otherwise I think valve should think into how it's unfair devs can post stuff that's contentious yet the users who pay these devs and valve can't express their disagreement with full political context to a contentious topic that has political undertones.)

I'm not replying to anymore comments because I have things to do so I wouldn't bother with reading past the 41st comment with any significant because at this point it's just derailing from the original intent of the comment and the debates are going in circles and this post has been here for 5 hours and I have things to do. any comments made towards me after that probably is addressed by me in a earlier reply.

I find it egregious and morally reprehensible that these multi million, sometimes multi billion dollar corporations can post obnoxious topics that are unpopular, controversial, and gets ratioed in the comments, and then people can't explain and express their grievances in details when the posts these companies make are related to politics to begin with.
(evidence: look at the Rocket League's developer's latest post, and see it being locked in the comments due to it being such an unpopular post.)

Don't tell me the history behind a contentious month or identity politics posts from these game developers and publishers are not political in nature. If the users can't even RESPECTFULLY post political comments to explain their opinions on the matter then it's only fair that game developers and publishers can't post political and contentious topics either if it's for the sake of Valve's reputation. If they keep this wonky TOS like this, then it only makes Valve looks like a unfair dystopian and censorious figure rather than Valve just trying to not make their platform look unwelcoming optics wise.

All I am saying is that the TOS should at lease be reviewed so it's less lop sided. If the devs say something contentious, allow people to reply without worrying of getting their posts removed.

I want to add that I don't expect any action from valve's part but wanted to point this out so people at lease think about this subject even if they disagree with me at the end.

[CateredGamerGator]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

Yes it's their prerogative, but is it right?

That depends on the viewpoint/perspective one has.

I think that developers should be free to make such announcements. It's their game and their game hub. Restricting them from posting announcements just because people cannot behave, is not something I would support, no.

Though in retrospect they should have locked the announcements immediately. I guess they hoped people would be civil. And yes, I checked the threads, there were plenty of non-respectful comments, so it's not strange they got locked.

I think they should have the right to post what ever they want. but I think it's unfair that people can't reply to things without political context. thus why I've made my point. I just think that if devs want to post what they want then people should reply to things without worrying about their stuff getting flagged. I got my comments removed from that post even when I was being respectful and only using historical political context on why I disagree with the post.

[CateredGamerGator]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Vault Hunter 101:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

The thing is they censor posts that dare to give political context to a topic that has political history behind the contentious point. I'm just pointing out that if we can't talk about politics then why is it right for developers to post stuff that has political connections sub surfaced?

Each gaming forum has their own rules that they make and enforce. As long as it's not breaking Steam Subscriber Agreement you can't do anything against it.

Also the "big bad company" wouldn't even care or read what you post and your "context"

I don't mind if the forums has their own rules. My problem is that it's a valve TOS rule.
The Steam Subscriber Agreement rule of no political topics is my problem. Not with the developers. also I think it's kinda pointless "wouldn't even care to read your post."
when that's not the point. It's for anyone who happens to come upon my post to read so it causes people to think even if the person disagrees with me at the end. which I fulfilled since you read my post and replied.

[CateredGamerGator]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย brian9824:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

I thought you are talking about laws of inserted by valve's tos?
otherwise the first amendment in the US (Where valve is located at.) does not have any laws against speech that does not threaten safety anyone.

Exactly, Valve's rules don't apply to game hubs. Developers are free to have rules that differ from Valves and game mods can even over rule steam mods and remove bans if a steam mod issues one in their forums.

The game developers PAID for the right to have their forums and that gives them a lot of control over it.

It's still not morally right. I'm just giving my opinion on that. My problem is that the "no political comments." rule is valve's rule not just the dev's rule.

so when a dev makes something contentious that has political undertones, it causes people to have to walk on egg shells even when they want to be polite about it which I have to express my disagreement on it.

[Crazy Tiger]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

That depends on the viewpoint/perspective one has.

I think that developers should be free to make such announcements. It's their game and their game hub. Restricting them from posting announcements just because people cannot behave, is not something I would support, no.

Though in retrospect they should have locked the announcements immediately. I guess they hoped people would be civil. And yes, I checked the threads, there were plenty of non-respectful comments, so it's not strange they got locked.

I think they should have the right to post what ever they want. but I think it's unfair that people can't reply to things without political context. thus why I've made my point. I just think that if devs want to post what they want then people should reply to things without worrying about their stuff getting flagged. I got my comments removed from that post even when I was being respectful and only using historical political context on why I disagree with the post.

The thing is that nobody owes you a place to say what you want, though. It's their "house", not yours. So their concerns have precedence over yours. And I think that's perfectly fine. It might mean that some game hubs aren't worth visiting, but that's fine as well.

Whether something is fair or not is rarely relevant. Especially since it's quite subjective on what is or isn't fair, as that depends on viewpoints/perspectives and such.

And sometimes life, and the world, indeed isn't fair.

[Vault Hunter 101]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Vault Hunter 101:

Each gaming forum has their own rules that they make and enforce. As long as it's not breaking Steam Subscriber Agreement you can't do anything against it.

Also the "big bad company" wouldn't even care or read what you post and your "context"

I don't mind if the forums has their own rules. My problem is that it's a valve TOS rule.
The Steam Subscriber Agreement rule of no political topics is my problem. Not with the developers. also I think it's kinda pointless "wouldn't even care to read your post."
when that's not the point. It's for anyone who happens to come upon my post to read so it causes people to think even if the person disagrees with me at the end. which I fulfilled since you read my post and replied.

The "no politics" is a valve rule for the forums not in ToS, feel free to read
https://store.steampowered.com/eula/471710_eula_0
and
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement

[Brian9824]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย brian9824:

Exactly, Valve's rules don't apply to game hubs. Developers are free to have rules that differ from Valves and game mods can even over rule steam mods and remove bans if a steam mod issues one in their forums.

The game developers PAID for the right to have their forums and that gives them a lot of control over it.

It's still not morally right. I'm just giving my opinion on that. My problem is that the "no political comments." rule is valve's rule not just the dev's rule.

so when a dev makes something contentious that has political undertones, it causes people to have to walk on egg shells even when they want to be polite about it which I have to express my disagreement on it.

Your morals aren't necessarily right. Thats the entire point. Everyone has different views and steam isn't the morality police. Its the developers forum, they get to decide in their forum what is morally right.

Just like you get to decide in your house what is morally right. Things aren't black and white and are shades of grey.

[CateredGamerGator]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

I think they should have the right to post what ever they want. but I think it's unfair that people can't reply to things without political context. thus why I've made my point. I just think that if devs want to post what they want then people should reply to things without worrying about their stuff getting flagged. I got my comments removed from that post even when I was being respectful and only using historical political context on why I disagree with the post.

The thing is that nobody owes you a place to say what you want, though. It's their "house", not yours. So their concerns have precedence over yours. And I think that's perfectly fine. It might mean that some game hubs aren't worth visiting, but that's fine as well.

Whether something is fair or not is rarely relevant. Especially since it's quite subjective on what is or isn't fair, as that depends on viewpoints/perspectives and such.

And sometimes life, and the world, indeed isn't fair.

holy crap man when did I say someone owes me anything? I'm just expressing my opinions dude. I've even written this thread with an acknowledgement that nothing might not even come out of this. I think it's relevant to express myself since I can vent and send out opinions that cause people to think about things even if they disagree with me at the end of the day.

[CateredGamerGator]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย brian9824:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

I've never even said my morals are 100% truth, just stating that rules are to be questioned. It's like saying it's stupid to express opinions about how certain laws are abusive. Yes the laws are enforced but it does not mean the law it self is right morally 100% it should be questioned.

[Crazy Tiger]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

The thing is that nobody owes you a place to say what you want, though. It's their "house", not yours. So their concerns have precedence over yours. And I think that's perfectly fine. It might mean that some game hubs aren't worth visiting, but that's fine as well.

Whether something is fair or not is rarely relevant. Especially since it's quite subjective on what is or isn't fair, as that depends on viewpoints/perspectives and such.

And sometimes life, and the world, indeed isn't fair.

holy crap man when did I say someone owes me anything? I'm just expressing my opinions dude. I've even written this thread with an acknowledgement that nothing might not even come out of this. I think it's relevant to express myself since I can vent and send out opinions that cause people to think about things even if they disagree with me at the end of the day.

It's just some wording, context matters. You said "I just think that if devs want to post what they want then people should reply to things without worrying about their stuff getting flagged.". I'm simply saying devs don't have to provide that space. And that this is fine. Perhaps annoying, but fine.

[CateredGamerGator]

This is just getting into semantics and not worth continuing the conversation at that point. Just know I don't think that I "deserve" a space I am just questioning the morality of it. Not saying I'm 100% right just giving my perspective on the matter thus why I posted and revised the thread.

[CateredGamerGator]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Vault Hunter 101:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

I don't mind if the forums has their own rules. My problem is that it's a valve TOS rule.
The Steam Subscriber Agreement rule of no political topics is my problem. Not with the developers. also I think it's kinda pointless "wouldn't even care to read your post."
when that's not the point. It's for anyone who happens to come upon my post to read so it causes people to think even if the person disagrees with me at the end. which I fulfilled since you read my post and replied.

The "no politics" is a valve rule for the forums not in ToS, feel free to read
https://store.steampowered.com/eula/471710_eula_0
and
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement

Yeah so? I know the rules. I'm just stating I disagree with it. Just because a rule exists does not mean it's right. just because a company owns the platform does not mean what ever they do is just. thus why laws in countries changes all the time. I'm just expressing my disagreements. even if people disagrees with me at the end of the day at lease I've made someone think about it for a bit. Never said I expected an outcome.

[davidb11]

THis makes no sense as a thread.
There can never be a valid reason to be upset with any company supporting anything that isn't inherently evil.

[Mad Scientist]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

I find it egregious and morally reprehensible that these multi million, sometimes multi billion dollar corporations can post obnoxious topics that are unpopular, controversial, and gets ratioed in the comments, and then people can't explain and express their grievances in details when the posts these companies make are related to politics to begin with.
(evidence: look at the Rocket League's developer's latest post, and see it being locked in the comments due to it being such an unpopular post.)

Vote with your wallet

Companies that are out-of-touch with their primary demographic often double down, or constantly try such things but when their primary income base becomes alienated, they tend to start dying over time as a company. Their primary concern should be make game, update game, keep players happy. Anything else risks losing support, thus income, and potentially a company.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

Don't tell me the history behind a contentious month or identity politics posts from these game developers and publishers are not political in nature. If the users can't even RESPECTFULLY post political comments to explain their opinions on the matter then it's only fair that game developers and publishers can't post political and contentious topics either if it's for the sake of Valve's reputation. If they keep this wonky TOS like this, then it only makes Valve looks like a unfair dystopian and censorious figure rather than Valve just trying to not make their platform look unwelcoming optics wise.

Well, it's unfortunate, but it's a reason to not support them if they want no responses or only one-sided responses. This comes all the way back to people voting with their wallet. Yes, some game devs have gone political or want to signal to others, yes often that goes poorly. Oh well, their focus should only ever be the game, anything else puts them at-risk.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

All I am saying is that the TOS should at lease be reviewed so it's less lop sided. If the devs say something contentious, allow people to reply without worrying of getting their posts removed.

The consequence of such actions is usually people stop supporting that particular thing, so financial difficulty is often to be expected in the long run the more frequently they do such a thing.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

This is just getting into semantics and not worth continuing the conversation at that point. Just know I don't think that I "deserve" a space I am just questioning the morality of it. Not saying I'm 100% right just giving my perspective on the matter thus why I posted and revised the thread.

I have seen a large amount of backlash for the particular thing you're likely hinting at. Last I checked it was 0 upvotes to 7k+ posts, but keep in mind those not liking it are customers, thus they are unlikely to support the company. While Developers have freedom to post about unrelated things, people are free to not like it & take their business elsewhere.

It's also interesting because that particular game allows you to capture & enslave other players, so, that really wasn't thought out too well.

[CateredGamerGator]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย davidb11:

THis makes no sense as a thread.
There can never be a valid reason to be upset with any company supporting anything that isn't inherently evil.

I'm not upset dude. Having disagreements is not being upset. also how can we determine the intention of a company is being or ins't being inherently evil? A company make intentional publicity stunts and accidental blunders all the time and the decisions are in closed doors It's hard to gauge the intention of a company. The intentions of the companies got nothing to do with it anyways. It got to do with a discussion about how users can interact with the developers. My copious replies to others shows this.

[nullable]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

Who said I wanted to beat other companies to compliance? I'm not forcing beliefs or values. Idk why so much people love lobbying for these soulless corps and straw manning so much, You're just inserting your self evident and notions. I stated that it's only fair if people disagree that they should be able to reply how they wish especially if it's respectful. otherwise it's only fair to not allow topics that can bring backlash if people have to walk on egg shells on the topic that has history of political.

You're not owed a platform of Steam. Valve doesn't exist to ensure you have that platform. You can't use Valve to strong arm other companies because you see that as an avenue to get your way.

Arguing that a business should be silenced because some users can't control themselves isn't much of an argument. Steam isn't the only platform on the Internet where you can post your opinions. Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, write your response on a platform they don't own/operate on. Problem solved. Wanting everything on your terms is typical, but it ain't gonna happen.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

also just because someone pays to get the right to make the rules doesn't make it morally right. Yeah it's their prerogatives. But what's wrong with questioning their prerogatives. That's like allowing any "authority" figures to step on people without question.

Trying to characterize someone controlling the space they own, deciding that's not favorable to you, so it's immoral is your fantasy. No one needs to entertain it.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

also the part of "me making this thread means I don't have much faith in my beliefs" makes no sense, That's like saying I don't have my faith in my beliefs if I complain about the rule makers making bad rules and that I should let myself get screwed over "hoping" that the rule makers get screwed over and never even petition for change. I just don't see any sense out of that.

It makes sense, you're just contrary and want to control the narrative.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

also why do you keep on insisting I want to beat companies? I'm just stating that people should be able to express them selves if they disagree. Obviously the latest Rocket league post caused people to tip toe when they are reacting negatively. the fact that the post from the company had negative reaction shows that it's contentious and that it's political in it's nature to cause backlash and thus the fact I'm complaining about the lop sided rules is just me pointing out this fact, nothing more or nothing less.

You can express yourself. Some place else. Neither Valve or developers, that you want to argue with, own the Internet. You're just not owed a booth on their property to do it.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CateredGamerGator:

I see a lot of pretentiousness out of people who rather protect a soulless company with no face and only thing in soulless methodology than giving a person a benefit of a doubt.

Everyone can see other people's BS, but not their own. And people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.