Capybara Jones 2023 年 2 月 24 日 上午 7:18
5
Should the clown emote be changed?
Hey everybody!
Recently, I have started to notice that the jester reaction is used in a disrespectful way. In this context it is often used to ridicule people for their views and to spam it onto community contributions to shame the creator. Needless to say, that is pretty toxic and probably not the intended use of the award. I like the design and the idea behind it comes from a good place. So, it should probably only be changed fulfill a more encouraging, positive function.
最后由 Capybara Jones 编辑于; 2023 年 2 月 24 日 上午 8:19
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正在显示第 121 - 135 条,共 143 条留言
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 8:39 
引用自 C10 Revamp
引用自 SlowMango


If removed, another on will just take the place of it. Others are already being used maliciously even though the Jester award has not been removed.
No they won't. Other awards "used maliciously" are not only used genuinely in various cases (if not most), but they don't directly call the user anything, unlike the jester.


You assume the jester is never used genuinely. There are plenty of posts where users are trying to be funny. I've seen them on other forums.

Is the Jester award not appropriate for those posts?
Tanoomba 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 8:40 
引用自 C10 Revamp
No they won't. Other awards "used maliciously" are not only used genuinely in various cases (if not most), but they don't directly call the user anything, unlike the jester.
The Jester doesn't directly call anyone anything.
And if another award (like, say, "Hilarious"), started being used en masse in a mocking or derogatory way, then that's the award that would become the de facto "insult" award. It's not the award itself that is malicious, it's how people choose to use and interpret it.
K13Cove 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 8:43 
引用自 SlowMango
You assume the jester is never used genuinely. There are plenty of posts where users are trying to be funny. I've seen them on other forums.

Is the Jester award not appropriate for those posts?
It is always used genuinely. But its "genuine" purpose is to insult, which was its design philosophy. The only award ever used for posts with humorous intent is the 'Hilarious' award, while the 'Jester' award is only used to mock and insult.
引用自 Tanoomba
The Jester doesn't directly call anyone anything.
And if another award (like, say, "Hilarious"), started being used en masse in a mocking or derogatory way, then that's the award that would become the de facto "insult" award. It's not the award itself that is malicious, it's how people choose to use and interpret it.
Yes it does. The Jester directly insults other users by calling them clowns. The 'Hilarious' award refers to the post, not the user behind the post (like the Jester). The 'Hilarious' award cannot be an insult award because it was designed to denote humorous posts, while the 'Jester' award was designed to insult people.
最后由 K13Cove 编辑于; 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 8:46
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 8:55 
引用自 C10 Revamp
引用自 SlowMango
You assume the jester is never used genuinely. There are plenty of posts where users are trying to be funny. I've seen them on other forums.

Is the Jester award not appropriate for those posts?
It is always used genuinely. But its "genuine" purpose is to insult, which was its design philosophy. The only award ever used for posts with humorous intent is the 'Hilarious' award, while the 'Jester' award is only used to mock and insult.

The genuine purpose isn't an insult. As it describes itself as; "An important part of any royal court."

Being a part of a royal court is already a high place let alone a part that's considered important.
K13Cove 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:00 
引用自 SlowMango
The genuine purpose isn't an insult. As it describes itself as; "An important part of any royal court."

Being a part of a royal court is already a high place let alone a part that's considered important.
Which is a sarcastic description that doesn't represent its actual intent, the image of the award, the name of the award, or its usage. Valve created it because they knew it would be extremely profitable, due to the amount of trolls who would shell out cash using that award on everything.

Naming it the "Clown" officially would be too obvious though, they went for naming it the medieval equivalent instead. Functionally identical (and visually identical to boot) — it serves the express purpose of directly calling other users fools and clowns.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:02 
引用自 C10 Revamp
引用自 SlowMango
The genuine purpose isn't an insult. As it describes itself as; "An important part of any royal court."

Being a part of a royal court is already a high place let alone a part that's considered important.
Which is a sarcastic description that doesn't represent its actual intent, the image of the award, the name of the award, or its usage. Valve created it because they knew it would be extremely profitable, due to the amount of trolls who would shell out cash using that award on everything.

Naming it the "Clown" officially would be too obvious though, they went for naming it the medieval equivalent instead. Functionally identical (and visually identical to boot) — it serves the express purpose of directly calling other users fools and clowns.


If we are to assume that the description is sarcastic for the Jester award, then we can assume the same for the other awards. This removes any genuine usage for most, if not all, the awards.
K13Cove 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:04 
引用自 SlowMango
If we are to assume that the description is sarcastic for the Jester award, then we can assume the same for the other awards. This removes any genuine usage for most, if not all, the awards.
Sarcasm can be gleaned through text, it doesn't have to be assumed in every case. Jesters aren't actually important to anything to begin with, but the description clearly takes on the context of saying that someone serves the "important" function of being a fool to laugh at.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:11 
引用自 C10 Revamp
引用自 SlowMango
If we are to assume that the description is sarcastic for the Jester award, then we can assume the same for the other awards. This removes any genuine usage for most, if not all, the awards.
Sarcasm can be gleaned through text, it doesn't have to be assumed in every case. Jesters aren't actually important to anything to begin with, but the description clearly takes on the context of saying that someone serves the "important" function of being a fool to laugh at.


Jesters were an important role in the Court. Not only did they have direct access to the king, they were also still considered part of the common folk. It isn't strange for a king to consult their jester about decisions or for the jester to consult the kind about their(the king) decisions since he(the jester) had a closer link to the commoners.
K13Cove 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:16 
引用自 SlowMango
Jesters were an important role in the Court. Not only did they have direct access to the king, they were also still considered part of the common folk. It isn't strange for a king to consult their jester about decisions or for the jester to consult the kind about their(the king) decisions since he(the jester) had a closer link to the commoners.
They were insignificant. It wasn't uncommon for kings to consult anyone in the court about what they had to say on matters out of curiosity, but their input was usually ignored either way. They were not decision makers or of high economic or social status outside their single purpose of performing the fool.
cSg|mc-Hotsauce 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:16 
引用自 SlowMango
引用自 C10 Revamp
Sarcasm can be gleaned through text, it doesn't have to be assumed in every case. Jesters aren't actually important to anything to begin with, but the description clearly takes on the context of saying that someone serves the "important" function of being a fool to laugh at.


Jesters were an important role in the Court. Not only did they have direct access to the king, they were also still considered part of the common folk. It isn't strange for a king to consult their jester about decisions or for the jester to consult the kind about their(the king) decisions since he(the jester) had a closer link to the commoners.

And many other things...

https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/court-fools-jesters/

:qr:
loppantorkel 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:26 
The Jester is used to insult close to 100%. The Hilarious award is used both maliciously and in good faith for what..? 50/50, more or less.. Would the Hilarious award take over if the Jester was changed? Likely to some degree, but how effectively?

If I'd use the proponents of a status quo's arguments - prove that nothing would change if the Jester was changed! It's easy to say it wouldn't work based on your biased projections, tougher to show any evidence that nothing but the image would change. The onus on showing this is on the Jester supporters. Take away the Jester and the Jester issue would be removed - no one can dispute this.

How much of the bias to keep the Jester stems from the easiness of farming steam points, for those who see some value in it; or to have an easy way to anonymously, at least attempt, to insult people?
最后由 loppantorkel 编辑于; 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:30
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:28 
引用自 cSg|mc-Hotsauce
引用自 SlowMango


Jesters were an important role in the Court. Not only did they have direct access to the king, they were also still considered part of the common folk. It isn't strange for a king to consult their jester about decisions or for the jester to consult the kind about their(the king) decisions since he(the jester) had a closer link to the commoners.

And many other things...

https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/court-fools-jesters/

:qr:


Oh yeah, what I mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg.
Tanoomba 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:43 
引用自 C10 Revamp
Yes it does. The Jester directly insults other users by calling them clowns.
No, it doesn't. it's a cute clown face and free points. It's not inherently an insult. It can be used to say "You are a clever person who has a humorous way with words". It can be used to say "I think this post was funny". It can be used to say "Here's a cute clown face and some free points".

引用自 C10 Revamp
The 'Hilarious' award cannot be an insult award because it was designed to denote humorous posts, while the 'Jester' award was designed to insult people.
It's absurd to suggest Valve intentionally provided us with an award designed to insult each other. And it's naive to think "Hilarious" can't be used insultingly. If you award someone making a serious point with "Hilarious", then you're being sarcastic. If someone expresses a sincere opinion of a game with no humor and you award it "Hilarious", then it's mocking laughter making fun of someone's opinion. It can absolutely be used as an insult.
K13Cove 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 9:47 
2
引用自 Tanoomba
No, it doesn't. it's a cute clown face and free points. It's not inherently an insult. It can be used to say "You are a clever person who has a humorous way with words". It can be used to say "I think this post was funny". It can be used to say "Here's a cute clown face and some free points".
Yes it does. It's a hideous clown face designed to insult other users. That was precisely why it was created, because that's the sort of usage that generates income.
引用自 Tanoomba
It's absurd to suggest Valve intentionally provided us with an award designed to insult each other. And it's naive to think "Hilarious" can't be used insultingly. If you award someone making a serious point with "Hilarious", then you're being sarcastic. If someone expresses a sincere opinion of a game with no humor and you award it "Hilarious", then it's mocking laughter making fun of someone's opinion. It can absolutely be used as an insult.
Dismissing a valid explanation with "It's absurd" while not providing any opposing explanation of your own is absurd, if anything. The 'Hilarious' award can't be used insultingly because it doesn't insult people; it only addresses the content of the post, not the user behind it. Besides that, unlike the Jester, the 'Hilarious' award has demonstrably been used for comments with the sole intent of being humorous.
Tanoomba 2023 年 2 月 27 日 上午 10:22 
引用自 C10 Revamp
Yes it does. It's a hideous clown face designed to insult other users.
"Hideous"? Now you're just being silly.

引用自 C10 Revamp
Dismissing a valid explanation with "It's absurd" while not providing any opposing explanation of your own is absurd, if anything.
The opposing explanation is that Valve just wants us to get along. The single biggest difficulty in running any discussion board is the neverending battle trying to keep things civil and respectful. Moderators have their work cut out for them every day, having to deal with thousands of reports. There is absolutely no way Steam would intentionally provide us with a way to insult each other. That goes directly counter to all their efforts to make the disucssion boards welcoming and friendly.

引用自 C10 Revamp
The 'Hilarious' award can't be used insultingly because it doesn't insult people
Neither does the cute clown face. You keep assigning inherent qualities to these awards but that misses the whole point: That they have no inherent qualities. They are used however we choose to use them. The Jester award became the "insult" award not because it designed for that purpose but because trolls decided to use it that way and it caught on. There is zero reason why they couldn't do the same with the Hilarious Award (which, again, can VERY easily be seen as mocking laughter).
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发帖日期: 2023 年 2 月 24 日 上午 7:18
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