Denuvo DRM removal, better game optimization and no more relying on DLSS

[DoMBaKiS]

So just saw Atomic Heart a highly anticipated game for some time now decided to add Denuvo 2 weeks before release and said nvidia DLLS, FSR will compensate for performance problems that Denuvo causes and sure that's great for people with higher end PCs that use higher end nvidia GPUs where they have DLLS 3, similar to FSR 2.0 where it works better on newer AMD GPUs.

What about people like me with 1660 ti that doesn't have support for DLSS at all are we just given the middle finger and told to ♥♥♥♥ off if we want to play a game or are we supposed to give our paychecks just to play a game we are interested in?

I say no I'm tired of all this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ we have to go through of all the lies we are asked to listen to and of all our hard earned cash we spend in hopes of promising titles being good titles, we should riot, boycot and speak our minds of what we think about all we have to go through.

Therefore my fellow gamers I ask do you support my cause for better game experience, better games, and no more lies or false promises. I ask or you to grab your torches and pitchforks and to stand for ourselves and for our games to both be great.

Comment on my post if you support my cause. I want to continue further with this I just don't know how much people would support what I think is good cause.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Take it up with the game dev's, they are free to design their software as they see fit. If you don't like it then vote with your wallet and not buy it.

I really doubt that'll do anything.
They more than likely wouldn't care if you asked them to remove it, and not buying their games won't have much effect when many others don't know or don't care and will still buy them.

Will have more of an impact then asking for it on the wrong forum though.

[DoMBaKiS]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

I really doubt that'll do anything.
They more than likely wouldn't care if you asked them to remove it, and not buying their games won't have much effect when many others don't know or don't care and will still buy them.

Will have more of an impact then asking for it on the wrong forum though.

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

I really doubt that'll do anything.
They more than likely wouldn't care if you asked them to remove it, and not buying their games won't have much effect when many others don't know or don't care and will still buy them.

Will have more of an impact then asking for it on the wrong forum though.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/668580/discussions/0/3761104049349374013/

[Crazy Tiger]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

I really doubt that'll do anything.
They more than likely wouldn't care if you asked them to remove it, and not buying their games won't have much effect when many others don't know or don't care and will still buy them.

Will have more of an impact then asking for it on the wrong forum though.

Yep. Valve won't change a thing about it, especially since they actively advise to use Steamwrapper DRM in combination with other DRM solutions.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm#other_drm

Using the Steam Wrapper with Other DRM
The Steam wrapper can and should be used in combination with other DRM solutions. To do so, apply the Steam wrapper in compatibility mode first before applying any other DRM. Apply it first so that it does not interfere with the DRM solution. Compatibility mode will disable DRM capabilities of the wrapper.

Submit the exe in compatibility mode by either selecting it in the drop down on the Steamworks page or using the appropriate flags in the automated drmtool.

Both other launchers and Denuvo are DRM solutions.

Best thing is always to contact the developers/publishers about it. Though it's always possible those aren't interested in changing things, one can always try.

[Hopeless Ne'er-Do-Well]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

I really doubt that'll do anything.
They more than likely wouldn't care if you asked them to remove it, and not buying their games won't have much effect when many others don't know or don't care and will still buy them.

Will have more of an impact then asking for it on the wrong forum though.

This is actually the correct forum:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/135507548120407092/

"If you have come here to propose a suggestion for the Steam client, whether it be a new feature or an improvement of an existing one, or the Steam ecosystem, regarding policies, the store or the community features, you have come to the right place."

Publicado originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Best thing is always to contact the developers/publishers about it. Though it's always possible those aren't interested in changing things, one can always try.

In my experience, contacting developers/publishers changes nothing.
Perhaps the same is true for topics such as these on Steam however.

[Crashed]

Publicado originalmente por SuperFly:

Publicado originalmente por Crashed:

Customer is at risk of what? Only thing I see a risk of is disinformation.

You'd have to understand the concept of data security and how/why giving untrustworthy software kernel-access to your PC is poised to be a potentially-crippling process.

What's disinformation is disregarding the known performance issues caused by these unnecessary "safety" programs -- and also pretending there's a pedigree to Denuvo that's worthy of any form of praise.
Folks who've been around on the internet for some decades know exactly where that brainchild was born -- and its reception won't change, regardless of who's throwing how much money at it.

Denuvo DRM runs in unprivileged usermode, no kernel mode drivers.

[Crashed]

Publicado originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Will have more of an impact then asking for it on the wrong forum though.

Yep. Valve won't change a thing about it, especially since they actively advise to use Steamwrapper DRM in combination with other DRM solutions.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm#other_drm

Using the Steam Wrapper with Other DRM
The Steam wrapper can and should be used in combination with other DRM solutions. To do so, apply the Steam wrapper in compatibility mode first before applying any other DRM. Apply it first so that it does not interfere with the DRM solution. Compatibility mode will disable DRM capabilities of the wrapper.

Submit the exe in compatibility mode by either selecting it in the drop down on the Steamworks page or using the appropriate flags in the automated drmtool.

Both other launchers and Denuvo are DRM solutions.

Best thing is always to contact the developers/publishers about it. Though it's always possible those aren't interested in changing things, one can always try.

Microsoft also recommends anti-tamper for their own store DRM platform; I'd have to look up the relevant MSDN document.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Will have more of an impact then asking for it on the wrong forum though.

This is actually the correct forum:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/135507548120407092/

"If you have come here to propose a suggestion for the Steam client, whether it be a new feature or an improvement of an existing one, or the Steam ecosystem, regarding policies, the store or the community features, you have come to the right place."

Publicado originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Best thing is always to contact the developers/publishers about it. Though it's always possible those aren't interested in changing things, one can always try.

In my experience, contacting developers/publishers changes nothing.
Perhaps the same is true for topics such as these on Steam however.

It isn't because what the OP is requesting is a change to OTHER COMPANIES software. Steam won't tell their customers how to design their software. Its up to them, so OP won't accomplish anything by posting here. Hence why if he wants to make them aware he has to post on their forums as they don't check these forums

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por Crashed:

Publicado originalmente por SuperFly:

You'd have to understand the concept of data security and how/why giving untrustworthy software kernel-access to your PC is poised to be a potentially-crippling process.

What's disinformation is disregarding the known performance issues caused by these unnecessary "safety" programs -- and also pretending there's a pedigree to Denuvo that's worthy of any form of praise.
Folks who've been around on the internet for some decades know exactly where that brainchild was born -- and its reception won't change, regardless of who's throwing how much money at it.

Denuvo DRM runs in unprivileged usermode, no kernel mode drivers.

Their anti-cheat has kernal level access which seems like they want to push that to their DRM if they can. Luckily the backlash with Doom Eternal probably swayed them from holding off for a bit.

[Crashed]

Publicado originalmente por SlowMango:

Publicado originalmente por Crashed:

Denuvo DRM runs in unprivileged usermode, no kernel mode drivers.

Their anti-cheat has kernal level access which seems like they want to push that to their DRM if they can. Luckily the backlash with Doom Eternal probably swayed them from holding off for a bit.

Totally different products, and they specifically advertise their DRM as having no kernel access.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por Crashed:

Publicado originalmente por SlowMango:

Their anti-cheat has kernal level access which seems like they want to push that to their DRM if they can. Luckily the backlash with Doom Eternal probably swayed them from holding off for a bit.

Totally different products, and they specifically advertise their DRM as having no kernel access.

I know they're different. Which is why is said it seems like.

[DoMBaKiS]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

This is actually the correct forum:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/135507548120407092/

"If you have come here to propose a suggestion for the Steam client, whether it be a new feature or an improvement of an existing one, or the Steam ecosystem, regarding policies, the store or the community features, you have come to the right place."



In my experience, contacting developers/publishers changes nothing.
Perhaps the same is true for topics such as these on Steam however.

It isn't because what the OP is requesting is a change to OTHER COMPANIES software. Steam won't tell their customers how to design their software. Its up to them, so OP won't accomplish anything by posting here. Hence why if he wants to make them aware he has to post on their forums as they don't check these forums

https://steamcommunity.com/app/668580/discussions/0/3761104049349374013/

[Hopeless Ne'er-Do-Well]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

This is actually the correct forum:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/135507548120407092/

"If you have come here to propose a suggestion for the Steam client, whether it be a new feature or an improvement of an existing one, or the Steam ecosystem, regarding policies, the store or the community features, you have come to the right place."



In my experience, contacting developers/publishers changes nothing.
Perhaps the same is true for topics such as these on Steam however.

It isn't because what the OP is requesting is a change to OTHER COMPANIES software. Steam won't tell their customers how to design their software. Its up to them, so OP won't accomplish anything by posting here. Hence why if he wants to make them aware he has to post on their forums as they don't check these forums

Valve actually does do that if I am correct.
If the software is against their rules or has some other issue, they will remove it.
Which is why suggesting they change their policy on DRM makes sense, especially combined with what I mentioned earlier about companies not changing things.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

It isn't because what the OP is requesting is a change to OTHER COMPANIES software. Steam won't tell their customers how to design their software. Its up to them, so OP won't accomplish anything by posting here. Hence why if he wants to make them aware he has to post on their forums as they don't check these forums

Valve actually does do that if I am correct.
If the software is against their rules or has some other issue, they will remove it.
Which is why suggesting they change their policy on DRM makes sense, especially combined with what I mentioned earlier about companies not changing things.

If the software breaks the law they remove it, thats about it. DRM doesn't remotely fall into that category, nor are they going to enforce limitations of how developers protect or design their games. Thats a surefire way to drive people to other sites that don't force them.

[Hopeless Ne'er-Do-Well]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

Valve actually does do that if I am correct.
If the software is against their rules or has some other issue, they will remove it.
Which is why suggesting they change their policy on DRM makes sense, especially combined with what I mentioned earlier about companies not changing things.

If the software breaks the law they remove it, thats about it. DRM doesn't remotely fall into that category, nor are they going to enforce limitations of how developers protect or design their games. Thats a surefire way to drive people to other sites that don't force them.

They've removed games that were shovelware, which were being used for trading cards, as well as other games for other reasons.
Not necessarily all for the law if I'm correct.

As for driving companies away, maybe.
However, I think they could put a limit on how long a game could have extra DRM, and it wouldn't drive them away.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por VirtuousReincarnation:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

If the software breaks the law they remove it, thats about it. DRM doesn't remotely fall into that category, nor are they going to enforce limitations of how developers protect or design their games. Thats a surefire way to drive people to other sites that don't force them.

They've removed games that were shovelware, which were being used for trading cards, as well as other games for other reasons.
Not necessarily all for the law if I'm correct.

As for driving companies away, maybe.
However, I think they could put a limit on how long a game could have extra DRM, and it wouldn't drive them away.

They games they removed where all done by one dev who was copy and pasting a game over 100 times. That was abusing their system and violating their ToS.

The reason they don't have a limit on 3rd party DRM is because Steam is a storefront, not a publisher of the games on the store. They are very big about giving devs the freedom to control their game. That's why it's rare for them to remove devs or games for rule violations.

Putting that type of limit definitely would drive devs away. From what little information there is about 3rd party DRM, we have gathered that they are time-based contracts. So not only would it be impossible for Valve to implement a feature without being in direct opposition of the 3rd party DRM developers, it would probably bring legal trouble as well.