Tickle Tipson 28 DIC 2022 a las 12:35 p. m.
Hardware/IP banning for people caught scamming or cheating
What the title says ^^

Edit: I'm talking about banning them from the Steam platform entirely, so they can't just create a new account and continue cheating
Última edición por Tickle Tipson; 28 DIC 2022 a las 12:37 p. m.
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Mostrando 16-27 de 27 comentarios
Gwarsbane 28 DIC 2022 a las 1:23 p. m. 
Copy and paste for every time a "I have a great idea to stop cheating" and the "DO SOMETHING" posts that always happen because people don't bother to use the search feature...

While below is mainly aimed at VAC, it can be said about any anti-cheat software.

Do you really think that they just sit there saying, "oh we have the perfect way to stop all hackers/cheaters once and for all, but we're just not going to do it cause we're lazy, ohh look at that, more money just rolled in, time to sit back doing nothing again"....

You have no idea how hard it is to stop hackers/cheater.

Blocking IPs are pointless, IPs can be changed in seconds, also if you block a single IP you could end up blocking lots of innocent people specially if the ISPs reuse IPs.

Blocking Hardware IDs is also as pointless, they can be changed and if you sell off your hardware, anyone who gets it will be banned.

Asking for some form of ID is pointless without anyway for Valve to actually Verify that ID is actually real. There is this thing called photo editing, its easily done by just about anyone. So sending pictures of the ID is pointless. There is no government databases that Valve can tap into from every single country they sell in the world because no government in their right mind would ever allow a game company access to private information.

Take the US all on its own, there are 50 different states, each with their own IDs, there is no single US ID so that would be 50 different databases Valve would need access too. Canada, same thing, each province and territory has their own Provincial ID, no actual Canadian ID. Now think about the hundreds of countries out there that are setup the same way.

There is no place that people can take their IDs to get verified because it would cost Valve a lot of money to pay those places to do that for them. You would also need a lot of places because no one is going to drive even 10+ miles every time they need to get their ID checked.

Most people do not have passports and to get one is very expensive, least it is in my country and its only good for a few years. If I'm not traveling outside of my country why do I need a passport?

Phone calls to talk to someone, pointless & expensive.

Sending someone to persons home, very expensive.

Valve has to know about the hack and has to get their hands on it.
Then they have to figure out how it does its thing.
Then they have to figure out how to detect someone using it.
Then they have to figure out how to make sure they don't get any false positives.
Then they make it go active for a few weeks before actually hitting the kill switch.

Even before hitting the waiting time, this could be a few weeks work or more.

Why do they wait a few weeks to hit the kill switch? To get as many cheaters as they can in the net so that once they turn it on, the roaches don't go screaming to people "don't turn on the hack, its been detected".

Valve is also working on an automated way to detect cheating with teaching an AI what to look for. BUT this takes a long time to do and even then its not going to be perfect. Valve needs it to be perfect, to not create false positives that ban people who didn't actually cheat.

Now, do you know how easy it is for a cheat maker to change the cheat to make it undetectable? Sometimes its as simple as changing a few lines of code and thats it. Basically a few minutes work, then compile the program, test it, and upload it somewhere.

So if you want to help Valve, stop making posts like this. Look for people spreading urls to websites with hacks and send those urls (for the hacks and hack sites) to steam support. Don't post them in public, just send it to steam support.

If the game is not VAC protected, then you have to contact the game developer/publisher via the games discussion area and ask them how to submit the stuff to them.
B-o-B 28 DIC 2022 a las 1:29 p. m. 
This was a thing when internet gaming was a baby.
Most cheaters back then returned after 10 mins from an server "admin IP ban". There wasn't much else back then, just before PunkBuster. Punks :) seems funnier now that it worked back then.

Scamming items wasn't a thing.
Valve have a very nice ban hammer for scamming.

Lessons were/are/always learnt.
Tito Shivan 28 DIC 2022 a las 1:30 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por KeeWee:
How are they easily bypassed? The system literally logs all of your computer components
And who has full control up to the hardware level of the machine running the game?

The cheater.
Satoru 28 DIC 2022 a las 2:47 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por KeeWee:
How are they easily bypassed? The system literally logs all of your computer components

Step 1) Make changes to the kernel
Step 2) Make your new modified kernel report back random HWIDs
Step 3) keep cheating

You could already do this a long time ago. In fact back in the day there were tools/scanners designed to bypass the kernel's WMI calls in order to determine if your system had a root kit. You would make a custom call, and compare it to what WMI told you. Since things reported via windows normal API calls would be compromised to hide the root kit if there was a discrepancy you knew you were screwed.. Task manager would not show anything running. It would even incorrectly report CPU or disk utilization to hide itself. You couldn't trust the system to tell you anything because the rootkit intercepted all calls and told you "everything is fine"

These were things viruses were doing 2 decades ago.

This is why nearly all anti-cheat programs abandoned hwid bans a decade ago.
Última edición por Satoru; 28 DIC 2022 a las 2:49 p. m.
Neg4tiveKD 28 DIC 2022 a las 6:55 p. m. 
Whether someone cheats is not Steam's problem. Steam is only a store front facilitating the purchase of digital software licences. The issue resides with the game developers - if they cannot prevent the cheating, why should Steam have to deal with that?
Judgmental Amaterasu 28 DIC 2022 a las 7:00 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por KeeWee:
Swapping out parts from your PC is not the easiest thing in the world, plus you wouldnt even know which part to swap out, maybe all of them?

Publicado originalmente por Zukabazuka:
Both can easily be changed and you are more likely to ban innocent people than total amount of cheaters.

What? PCs are extremely modular. It takes no time at all to swap out parts. Not that it is even necessary to do so since spoofers exist
[?]legit 28 DIC 2022 a las 9:24 p. m. 
I'd suggest to either improve the anti cheat software or stack up the manpower behind manual gameplay review teams.

Cheating is a big problem on PC, also because cheaters know that they are more or less untouchable. If they knew that someone could file a report which would be thoroughly checked, we would see less cheaters.
cSg|mc-Hotsauce 28 DIC 2022 a las 9:28 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por legit windows:
I'd suggest to either improve the anti cheat software or stack up the manpower behind manual gameplay review teams.

Cheating is a big problem on PC, also because cheaters know that they are more or less untouchable. If they knew that someone could file a report which would be thoroughly checked, we would see less cheaters.

VAC is constantly updated and CS:GO also has Overwatch.

:qr:
[?]legit 28 DIC 2022 a las 9:34 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:
Publicado originalmente por legit windows:
I'd suggest to either improve the anti cheat software or stack up the manpower behind manual gameplay review teams.

Cheating is a big problem on PC, also because cheaters know that they are more or less untouchable. If they knew that someone could file a report which would be thoroughly checked, we would see less cheaters.

VAC is constantly updated and CS:GO also has Overwatch.

:qr:
In theory the overwatch system, where professional reviewers manually identify cheaters, sounds promising. But in reality, both systems are ineffective and only ban an insignificant amount of the cheaters.
Gwarsbane 28 DIC 2022 a las 9:45 p. m. 
I just recently watched a video on youtube about how Aimbot Cheats Are Evolving and it was showing a hardware based aimbot that physically moved the mouse and pressed the button and didn't have any software or hardware interaction with the gaming pc other than physically moving the mouse.

It also talked about cheaters using secondary PCs and outing the video to that PC so that software on that PC could do the cheating without it being picked up by anti-cheat on the first PC.

I won't link the video, not that it shows the software or anything like that, its a just in case Valve mods don't like it, they seem to be rather picky as of late, but it can be found by just searching with the right 4 words.

It explains how the cheats have evolved and that many don't work the way some people think they do. That it will always be a cat and mouse game (I prefer a never ending game of whack-a-mole). Heck they even mention how the software can add little tremors and stuff into the mouse movement to make it look more human like.

As mentioned VAC is constantly being updated, and the cheaters are constantly changing the cheats... its never ending.
Última edición por Gwarsbane; 28 DIC 2022 a las 9:47 p. m.
[?]legit 28 DIC 2022 a las 9:50 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Gwarsbane:
I just recently watched a video on youtube about how Aimbot Cheats Are Evolving and it was showing a hardware based aimbot that physically moved the mouse and pressed the button and didn't have any software or hardware interaction with the gaming pc other than physically moving the mouse.

It also talked about cheaters using secondary PCs and outing the video to that PC so that software on that PC could do the cheating without it being picked up by anti-cheat on the first PC.

I won't link the video, not that it shows the software or anything like that, its a just in case Valve mods don't like it, they seem to be rather picky as of late, but it can be found by just searching with the right 4 words.

It explains how the cheats have evolved and that many don't work the way some people think they do. That it will always be a cat and mouse game (I prefer a never ending game of whack-a-mole).

As mentioned VAC is constantly being updated, and the cheaters are constantly changing the cheats... its never ending.
I think that most people still use and probably will always use the old fashioned, word.exe or cheat.exe hacks.

Those enhanced cheat methods you mentioned are complicated and expensive, and therefore not really an option for most cheaters
Última edición por [?]legit; 28 DIC 2022 a las 9:50 p. m.
❤ Sly Succubus ❤ 29 DIC 2022 a las 1:57 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Gwarsbane:
I just recently watched a video on youtube about how Aimbot Cheats Are Evolving and it was showing a hardware based aimbot that physically moved the mouse and pressed the button and didn't have any software or hardware interaction with the gaming pc other than physically moving the mouse.
They exist, and in mass numbers, those are Bots, not hackers, a rather large difference as a script almost as mundane to set a repeat loop combined with most games still using laser hitreg makes it basically a simple pathfinder bot with automatic register lock, something that can be typed up in an hour and set loose, hell the Catbot maker was literally located 2 years ago and before he could be stopped he literally released that base-code to many others across the web.

Publicado originalmente por Gwarsbane:
It explains how the cheats have evolved and that many don't work the way some people think they do. That it will always be a cat and mouse game (I prefer a never ending game of whack-a-mole). Heck they even mention how the software can add little tremors and stuff into the mouse movement to make it look more human like.
Human taunt sync is standard faire for bots, especially for ones that are not looking to be caught, those are known as "One missed shot aimbots' as they simply have a number between 1 to 9 of how many heads they will always hit, before they miss that number, so say its 5, they'll hit 4 before looping again, this is so normal that its more common on Warcraft for resource bots which normally follow the pattern of one harvester and like 12 defenders, but should the bot their following die by either an NPC or player, the rest of the bots go into "randomatic" mode before picking one of the other bots present to follow and going back into their pattern.

This is simple script stuff that honestly when you get that its literally pathfinding with XYZ cords combined with auto-lockon due to valve games still using laser bullets then modern bullet depth (excluding explosives) then anything thats a bullet in valve games will always hit the second the button is pressed.

You simply dont get rid of this kind of hacker, as these guys are already a few steps ahead in planning when it comes to doing it on games with bans, and when you get that most hackers are already prepared back ups (or hackups if you want) in place after their ban drops on the first, its clear that Valve really wont get rid of them unless it figures out a way to plan ahead of hackers...and it never will be able to, as simply you never who is a hacker, who is not and more.

Also note to the OP
Hardware today has what is known as the Original and Psudo names, when you hook a Razer mouse in, your PC will register it as Razer mouse...its real name is usually however OEM followed by 2 numbers, ironically that only is for USB connections that use OEM wordage, and the funny bit is that your PC does register them.

In its system registery, which you can literally open and if you have 2 mouses, you can literally delete the already known hardware files from the registery with the other mouse selecting them and basically make your PC think its never seen that mouse before.

What happens? It gets a new OEM number, very few people are unaware that just because your device display has hidden drivers also shown, does not mean they get that there's a compact folder in your system32 with every single copy of hardware, software and program thats ever been on your machine, I have to unplug my headset now and then (my brother works for a call center so he borrows it) when I do that, and replug it in, I get a new template folder in there, and the driver pops up, however it is then a sibing device, not a parent device (AKA the Original and Psudo driver)
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Publicado el: 28 DIC 2022 a las 12:35 p. m.
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