Neutral review

[Nova]

I really wish there was a neutral review choice. Just a grey ( - ) for example. Many times a game just isn't for me because of certain mechanics I just don't enjoy while still being a solid game. It doesn't mean I wouldn't recommend people buy the game but rather I just think a certain thing ruins the game for me and like minded people.

[Start_Running]

So basiclally Metacritic and Tomato skew apply arbitary weightings to specific reviews. That basically says why I trust neither. Valve's is basically equal . Your opinion is worth neither mor nor less than someone elses to the AI.

[white but not quite]

For critic reviews Metacritic uses the "Metascore", which is a weighted average of all critic reviews off the game's page, excluding the pending and unscored ones. And "User Score" is probably just an average of all user reviews (and you're not required to own the game).

For critic reviews Rotten Tomatoes uses the "Tomatometer", which is a percentage of positive critic reviews, unweighted. And their "Audience Score" is a percentage of user ratings that are 3.5 or higher (for some movies they verify if you bought the movie ticket).

[BlackSunEmpire]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Tanoomba の投稿を引用：

Sure you can. The Steam review aggregates tend to be pretty similar to the critics' aggregate on Metacritic (the critics, of course, taking their jobs seriously and actually reviewing games on their merits instead of using their review as revenge over perceived slights). That's not a coincidence.

Powerwash simulator - 97% recommended on Steam. 76%, 7.5 for Metacritic.
Stray - 97% vs 83 and 8.5.
Vampire survivors - 98% vs 86 and 8.4
Teardown - 96% vs 80 and 8.5
Cultic - 99% vs 79 and 7.6

I mean you could keep on believing what you will, but the assumption that the Steam review aggregates mysteriously tend to be similar to the critics' aggregates... If you squint your eyes perhaps..? What's not a coincidence..?

I wouldnt listen to the professional critics on metacritic, the user reviews on metacritic seem to be much more accurate then the critics reviews. Not only in games , but also in movies.

And about "review bombing" on metacritic , that works both ways.
There is just as much positive review bombing, where people give a mediocre game 10/10, as there is negative review bombing, where they give the same game 0/10. It kind of evens out in most cases. But people never talk about the positve review bombing and the constant 10/10 spamming, which is just as much of an issue.

In general its pointless anyways.
Even if steam had a more accurate review system, it wouldnt change anything.
Millions up on millions of casual players would still buy and preorder every unfinished game, no matter the quality and no matter the reviews.

This trend of more and more publisher releasing their games in an unfinished and unpolished beta state, because casuals buy them anyways, isnt going to stop, it will only get worse and with it the quality of the games.

[Start_Running]

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Powerwash simulator - 97% recommended on Steam. 76%, 7.5 for Metacritic.
Stray - 97% vs 83 and 8.5.
Vampire survivors - 98% vs 86 and 8.4
Teardown - 96% vs 80 and 8.5
Cultic - 99% vs 79 and 7.6

I mean you could keep on believing what you will, but the assumption that the Steam review aggregates mysteriously tend to be similar to the critics' aggregates... If you squint your eyes perhaps..? What's not a coincidence..?

I wouldnt listen to the professional critics on metacritic, the user reviews on metacritic seem to be much more accurate then the critics reviews. Not only in games , but also in movies.

And about "review bombing" on metacritic , that works both ways.
There is just as much positive review bombing, where people give a mediocre game 10/10, as there is negative review bombing, where they give the same game 0/10. It kind of evens out in most cases. But people never talk about the positve review bombing and the constant 10/10 spamming, which is just as much of an issue.

Because tyhe idea that someone thinks a game YOU think is mediocre is just too far-fetched right?

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

This trend of more and more publisher releasing their games in an unfinished and unpolished beta state, because casuals buy them anyways, isnt going to stop, it will only get worse and with it the quality of the games.

Trend? M'dude this has been a thing since for ever. And part of it is because of the tighter and tigheter release schedules created by ever increasing competition, and the other part is basically hind sight. A game is almost always going to be more polished after a few patches because they have actual; boots on the ground feedback to work with.

Also Define "Casual'

[BlackSunEmpire]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

I wouldnt listen to the professional critics on metacritic, the user reviews on metacritic seem to be much more accurate then the critics reviews. Not only in games , but also in movies.

And about "review bombing" on metacritic , that works both ways.
There is just as much positive review bombing, where people give a mediocre game 10/10, as there is negative review bombing, where they give the same game 0/10. It kind of evens out in most cases. But people never talk about the positve review bombing and the constant 10/10 spamming, which is just as much of an issue.

Because tyhe idea that someone thinks a game YOU think is mediocre is just too far-fetched right?

I could very easily turn this argument around on you and say "the idea that someone thinks a game YOU like is legitimately 0/10 is too far fetched for you ? "

And I would say yes, for both cases.
Only very rarely games really deserve a 10/10 or 0/10.
In 99,99 % of the cases both are not justified.
Maybe every 10.000th game is a masterpiece worth of 10/10.

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

This trend of more and more publisher releasing their games in an unfinished and unpolished beta state, because casuals buy them anyways, isnt going to stop, it will only get worse and with it the quality of the games.

Trend? M'dude this has been a thing since for ever.

But its getting worse over the last 10 years.
The quality is definitely going down.

Just look at EA alone: SimCity (2013), Star Wars Battlefront II , Anthem, BF 5, BF 2042

We also get every year more games with severe shader compilation stutter on pc, like Elden Ring, or The Callisto Protocol.

The working conditions for those large tripple A studios are just not sustainable.
This shareholder value mentality around minimal viable products to maximize the income of the publisher really hurts the quality of the games.

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Also Define "Casual'

A "casual" is someone who doesnt read or watches game reviews, doesnt inform themself over the quality or polish of a game and just buys games based on IGN trailer, because friends are playing them and because the public is talking about them.

The perfect consumer ;)

[Start_Running]

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Because tyhe idea that someone thinks a game YOU think is mediocre is just too far-fetched right?

I could very easily turn this argument around on you and say "the idea that someone thinks a game YOU like is legitimately 0/10 is too far fetched for you ? "

Remove the word legitimately.

And that's not very farfetched. I was into CRPGs back before they were cool so I'm used to people thinking the games I like are boring and lame.

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

And I would say yes, for both cases.
Only very rarely games really deserve a 10/10 or 0/10.
In 99,99 % of the cases both are not justified.
Maybe every 10.000th game is a masterpiece worth of 10/10.

Yeah ., and that's how you apply it. Other people apply that differentlyt. And even taking what you said at face value the issue is different people would put different games on their 10/10 list because you know, different people have different tastes.

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

But its getting worse over the last 10 years.
The quality is definitely going down.

No it;s actually been getting better since the internet became a thing. In the old days you were jjust stuck with that buggy game forever. Now it at least gets fixed or improved.

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

Just look at EA alone: SimCity (2013), Star Wars Battlefront II , Anthem, BF 5, BF 2042

Congrats you were able to luist some games that had bad releases and didn't really get fixed. On the other hand.. look ant no Man's Sky. They pulled off a heel turn.

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

We also get every year more games with severe shader compilation stutter on pc, like Elden Ring, or The Callisto Protocol.

Games that try to push the graphical boundaries at launch not running well. Wow. That never happened before.. oh wayit. Morrowind, Doom 3, Ultima 7, 8, 9, etc. Like I said. These things have been around since games got more advanced than pong.

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

The working conditions for those large tripple A studios are just not sustainable.
This shareholder value mentality around minimal viable products to maximize the income of the publisher really hurts the quality of the games.

Yeah but that's what work. Those that failed to embrace and master that mentality.. well.. they're either very small, or dead.

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Also Define "Casual'

A "casual" is someone who doesnt read or watches game reviews, doesnt inform themself over the quality or polish of a game and just buys games based on IGN trailer, because friends are playing them and because the public is talking about them.

You know what's funny. Every time I ask that question I always get a different answer that seems to be more about what the one saying it looks down upon.

Funny huh?

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

The perfect consumer ;)

Not like you of course.

[loppantorkel]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

And I would say yes, for both cases.
Only very rarely games really deserve a 10/10 or 0/10.
In 99,99 % of the cases both are not justified.
Maybe every 10.000th game is a masterpiece worth of 10/10.

Yeah ., and that's how you apply it. Other people apply that differentlyt. And even taking what you said at face value the issue is different people would put different games on their 10/10 list because you know, different people have different tastes.

Just curious... Do you see any unsolvable issues in this, using a more graded system, compared to the current binary?

[Thermal Lance]

I just love it when people imply not recommending something AUTOMATICALLY means the user thinks its a 0/10. This is almost as if people complaining with the absence of neutral review don't even read any review.

*Inb4 somebody strawman this will a troll review.*

[white but not quite]

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

This trend of more and more publisher releasing their games in an unfinished and unpolished beta state, because casuals buy them anyways, isnt going to stop, it will only get worse and with it the quality of the games.

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

Mhh, not really.
Im more of a centrist.
I find the far right and the far left equally stupid.
Its not even that I dont appreciate well build things.

I love my musical keyboard and my rtx 4090 and my painting and drawing utilites and using programms like Zbrush or Blender. I dont want to miss any of those things.

Its more that I just hate what has become out of this videogame industry over the last 20 years. And of course that most people have turned into braindead consume zombies and simps ;)

What about you ?
When did you know that you want to be a simp ?

I never even mentioned any fringes. I asked if you are a leftist (you know, a socialist?), since you've taken a staunch anti-capitalist stance in that CP2077 thread. Or it seemed that way to me at least.

So as a "centrist" (🤭), do you actually care about the issues at hand, and to which degree? Or do you just need something to be outraged about?

[loppantorkel]

Thermal Lance の投稿を引用：

I just love it when people imply not recommending something AUTOMATICALLY means the user thinks its a 0/10. This is almost as if people complaining with the absence of neutral review don't even read any review.

*Inb4 somebody strawman this will a troll review.*

Your whole post looks like a strawman tbh. Where was that implied?

[Thermal Lance]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Thermal Lance の投稿を引用：

I just love it when people imply not recommending something AUTOMATICALLY means the user thinks its a 0/10. This is almost as if people complaining with the absence of neutral review don't even read any review.

*Inb4 somebody strawman this will a troll review.*

Your whole post looks like a strawman tbh. Where was that implied?

Good point. I might have worded it better. But, it does sound like this is what was implied. Which is definately hilarious to me.

People keep confusing review score with a recommendation.

[Tanoomba]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Powerwash simulator - 97% recommended on Steam. 76%, 7.5 for Metacritic.
Stray - 97% vs 83 and 8.5.
Vampire survivors - 98% vs 86 and 8.4
Teardown - 96% vs 80 and 8.5
Cultic - 99% vs 79 and 7.6

My mistake. I failed to account for how few reviews by critics several games have.

Powerwash Simulator has 9 critics' reviews.
Stray has 41 reviews, with 5 of them not being positive.
Vampire Survivors has 18 reviews, with one that isn't positive.
Taerdown has 19 reviews, with 7 not positive.
Cultic has 11 reviews, with 2 not positive.

Stray has more reviews than all the others, and they're still divided into classifications in the single digits. Adding two of any opinion to any of these aggregates would notably change the result. You're right that the scores don't always coincide as closely as I had implied, but you'll notice that all of these games are clearly well-received by both Steam audiences and critics. The biggest disparities you will find will be between either of these groups and the Metacritic user scores (where, again, review bombs abound).

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

You're misunderstanding the answer. In order to find and exclude 'bad' reviews, we need to find them more effectively. We can't find them in a binary system, but it's easy to see the "bad" reviews in the irrational shape and hour glass-like distribution. In a graded system we see it and can rectify it with tools. In a binary system the issue is hidden from you. It's there, but you're ignorant of the issue.

Again, literally none of that has anything to do with the system being exploitable, IE people being able to take advantage of weaknesses in the system to manipulate data.

[Tanoomba]

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

I wouldnt listen to the professional critics on metacritic, the user reviews on metacritic seem to be much more accurate then the critics reviews. Not only in games , but also in movies.

But that makes no sense. Again, a statistically feasible distribution of opinions will form a slope or a bulb. User scores on Metacritic regularly form an hourglass because people are spamming extreme reviews to try to force the aggregate closer to their opinion. Realistically speaking, very few if any games would ever actually be worthy of a score of 0, and yet that's a very popular score from users. None of that is "accurate".

I imagine the only reason you consider it "more accurate" is because the lower overall aggregates better reflect your personal "doom and gloom" view of gaming popular among cynical and jaded gamers. It is pretty hypocritical of you, though, to have repeatedly claimed to be dismissive of "vibes" and only care about "what's in the game" when Metacritic user reviews have the exact opposite priorities.

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

And about "review bombing" on metacritic , that works both ways.
There is just as much positive review bombing, where people give a mediocre game 10/10, as there is negative review bombing, where they give the same game 0/10. It kind of evens out in most cases. But people never talk about the positve review bombing and the constant 10/10 spamming, which is just as much of an issue.

Yeah, no, this is nonsense. There is no such thing as positive review bombing. Review bombing is an inherently malicious act, a concerted effort to punish a game over perceived slights that usually have nothing to do with the game itself.
I mean, I will agree that people spamming 10s is a problem (I've already said so), but that's not the same thing as review bombing. the best example I can find is Gone Home for PC, a game whose positive critical reception severely triggered a bunch of gamers to the point where they review bombed it to smithereens. You will not find such an example of a "positive review bomb".

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

Even if steam had a more accurate review system, it wouldnt change anything.
Millions up on millions of casual players would still buy and preorder every unfinished game, no matter the quality and no matter the reviews.

I've got good news for you, then: You don't have to concern yourself with what other people buy and enjoy. You certainly don't ever have to buy a game that doesn't appeal to you. The very existence of games you don't like, along with people who enjoy them, has no effect on you whatsoever.

[BlackSunEmpire]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

I could argue with you now over multiple pages in circles, but whats the point of it ?
It wouldnt change anything.

This trend of people buying and preordering every unfinished game at full price will just continue and the quality of the games in terms of polish and technical stability will just decrease further every year.

The only real light at the end of the tunnel is maybe that digital production tools like MetaHuman, character rigging tools and worldbuilding tools will get at some point so advanced, that even small indie studios will be able to produce large 3D adventure games.

[BlackSunEmpire]

just a simpette who's hungry for の投稿を引用：

BlackSunEmpire の投稿を引用：

Mhh, not really.
Im more of a centrist.
I find the far right and the far left equally stupid.
Its not even that I dont appreciate well build things.

I love my musical keyboard and my rtx 4090 and my painting and drawing utilites and using programms like Zbrush or Blender. I dont want to miss any of those things.

Its more that I just hate what has become out of this videogame industry over the last 20 years. And of course that most people have turned into braindead consume zombies and simps ;)

What about you ?
When did you know that you want to be a simp ?

I never even mentioned any fringes. I asked if you are a leftist (you know, a socialist?), since you've taken a staunch anti-capitalist stance in that CP2077 thread. Or it seemed that way to me at least.

So as a "centrist" (🤭), do you actually care about the issues at hand, and to which degree? Or do you just need something to be outraged about?

What has my post out of the cyberpunk steam forum to do with this topic here ?

You asked me in the cp 2077 steam forum, if Im a socialist and I said no, I like consuming certain products. I just dont like what this industry and some people like you have turned into 😉