Gurrier 2016 年 8 月 29 日 下午 1:59
Integrated virtual private network System for multiplayer in older games.
There are hundreds of great old games on steam that only really support multiplayer through LAN. It would be great if there was a system in Steam similar to Hamachi which would allow you to create a VPN with anyone on your friends list.

Yah?
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目前顯示第 16-27 則留言,共 27
Start_Running 2016 年 9 月 2 日 上午 7:52 
引用自 Muut
Imo the value to us would be in Valve providing the technical facilities to play LAN games over Steam, and in making that fairly easy to do.

The value to Valve would be "Hey you can easily play [insert old classic game] multi-player on Steam now, if you join up and buy a copy from them".

Not everyone has the technical skills necessary to get a Hamachi install + server + client connections + router config working. The point of the feature would be to make it easy to do that.

And as others have piointed out that's exactly the reason Valve ain't doing that. networking random computers of random strangers together in a lan setting. Sure, what security risk could their be?

I'd still argue that there's nothing about this which is against publisher intentions, or which would require any kind of modification to the games - if LAN play is supported already, it doesn't matter whether it's a physical LAN or a virtual-LAN that you're connecting over.

You know the thing about games that only supported lan play. They are also built around certain latency thresholds.. as others have said. Now in a real lan, latency ios virtually non existant. But spoofing a lan over the internet. Yeah that's another story.

If you lack the technical skills to get Hamachi running, you probably lack the technical skills to secure and optimize your network.

Youi're also not likely to be interested in older games since even getting them to run optimally takes some tweaking.
Muut 2016 年 9 月 2 日 上午 8:19 
引用自 Start_Running
And as others have piointed out that's exactly the reason Valve ain't doing that. networking random computers of random strangers together in a lan setting. Sure, what security risk could their be?

There's no reason that a VPN service would need to forward data for every port, so it wouldn't be a case of baring all ports to complete strangers.

It could for example be tunneling the necessary game-only traffic over HTTPS.

引用自 Start_Running
You know the thing about games that only supported lan play. They are also built around certain latency thresholds.. as others have said. Now in a real lan, latency ios virtually non existant. But spoofing a lan over the internet. Yeah that's another story.

This hasn't prevented other companies from providing the same service, nor has it been a problem in my experience of running LAN games over a reasonably-good-latency internet connection.

引用自 Start_Running
If you lack the technical skills to get Hamachi running, you probably lack the technical skills to secure and optimize your network.

This would be the point of the feature - easy-to-use virtual-LAN gaming without the necessity for technical skill.

引用自 Start_Running
Youi're also not likely to be interested in older games since even getting them to run optimally takes some tweaking.

Many older games are being curated for longevity on newer platforms, see, eg. what GoG are doing with their titles, or various re-releases of classics on Steam recently.
Start_Running 2016 年 9 月 2 日 上午 8:32 
引用自 Muut
引用自 Start_Running
And as others have piointed out that's exactly the reason Valve ain't doing that. networking random computers of random strangers together in a lan setting. Sure, what security risk could their be?

There's no reason that a VPN service would need to forward data for every port, so it wouldn't be a case of baring all ports to complete strangers.

It could for example be tunneling the necessary game-only traffic over HTTPS.
Sigh.. and of course someone could push who knows what to your end over that tunnel.

引用自 Start_Running
You know the thing about games that only supported lan play. They are also built around certain latency thresholds.. as others have said. Now in a real lan, latency ios virtually non existant. But spoofing a lan over the internet. Yeah that's another story.

This hasn't prevented other companies from providing the same service, nor has it been a problem in my experience of running LAN games over a reasonably-good-latency internet connection.
Other companies that have no stake in that actual game it's being applied to. See the difference?. Also you are a very small usecase. We're talkuing about millions of steam users here who will as reflex blame any issues on crappy steam as opposed to their glitchy internet connection.

引用自 Start_Running
If you lack the technical skills to get Hamachi running, you probably lack the technical skills to secure and optimize your network.

This would be the point of the feature - easy-to-use virtual-LAN gaming without the necessity for technical skill.

Somethings should not be easy. If you can't fread and follow five steps. Then there is no reason to condense it to 3 steps.

引用自 Start_Running
Youi're also not likely to be interested in older games since even getting them to run optimally takes some tweaking.

Many older games are being curated for longevity on newer platforms, see, eg. what GoG are doing with their titles, or various re-releases of classics on Steam recently.

Not saying there isn't a demand. But those who knew what the heck the games were are likely to have the ability to follow instructions. Just saying. if the developers did not think it worth their time, if the publishers did not think it worth their time then it probably isn't worth Valve's time.
Muut 2016 年 9 月 2 日 上午 9:42 
引用自 Start_Running
引用自 Muut

There's no reason that a VPN service would need to forward data for every port, so it wouldn't be a case of baring all ports to complete strangers.

It could for example be tunneling the necessary game-only traffic over HTTPS.

Sigh.. and of course someone could push who knows what to your end over that tunnel

I think you've misunderstood - if the connection only tunnels the necessary ports for the game, there's no place for the 'who knows what' to go. Sure I guess somebody could attempt to DoS the game, if the Steam client side allowed something other than the game binary to control the connection, but if they did do that, just don't invite them next time ;)

This hasn't prevented other companies from providing the same service, nor has it been a problem in my experience of running LAN games over a reasonably-good-latency internet connection.

Other companies that have no stake in that actual game it's being applied to. See the difference?. Also you are a very small usecase. We're talkuing about millions of steam users here who will as reflex blame any issues on crappy steam as opposed to their glitchy internet connection.

Agreed that this would be a call for Valve to make - supporting the service would definitely be a commitment of some size even if the feature was provided as an 'as-is' free extra, and could be a bit of a can of worms if not managed well.

I guess to some extent it comes down to confidence in the robustness of the service. I'm no expert on Valve, but my guess is that they're probably well-positioned to pull this kind of thing off.

This would be the point of the feature - easy-to-use virtual-LAN gaming without the necessity for technical skill.

Somethings should not be easy. If you can't fread and follow five steps. Then there is no reason to condense it to 3 steps.

Have to disagree on this - tech industry success comes from making things easier and therefore more accessible to a wider audience, and thereby gaining their custom / loyalty.

And I think we both know that setting up Hamachi and getting everyone into a game on it usually involves a few more than 5 steps. ;)

Many older games are being curated for longevity on newer platforms, see, eg. what GoG are doing with their titles, or various re-releases of classics on Steam recently.

Not saying there isn't a demand. But those who knew what the heck the games were are likely to have the ability to follow instructions. Just saying. if the developers did not think it worth their time, if the publishers did not think it worth their time then it probably isn't worth Valve's time.

Publishers/developers do seem to think it's worth generating revenue from older titles, hence the re-releases etc. If they can put their game on Steam and get multi-player support without re-development as part of the deal, that would seem to be a win-win. Multi-player is a huge asset for any title in terms of player base and longevity.
Start_Running 2016 年 9 月 2 日 上午 10:29 
引用自 Muut
Publishers/developers do seem to think it's worth generating revenue from older titles, hence the re-releases etc. If they can put their game on Steam and get multi-player support without re-development as part of the deal, that would seem to be a win-win. Multi-player is a huge asset for any title in terms of player base and longevity.
Uh-huih. You do realize the only reason that publishers bother with these oldergames is that it costs them very little if anything to put it up on steam. Having to actually create somethinga nd provide support for multiplayer.. yeah that's adding cost to the equation. Hence why most games that had multi-player originally are now actually sold as single player where the publisher can't be bothered with the headache.

If you want to get it to work and such, well have at it, but don't expect people to get headaches on your behalf.
Muut 2016 年 9 月 2 日 上午 11:25 
引用自 Start_Running
引用自 Muut
Publishers/developers do seem to think it's worth generating revenue from older titles, hence the re-releases etc. If they can put their game on Steam and get multi-player support without re-development as part of the deal, that would seem to be a win-win. Multi-player is a huge asset for any title in terms of player base and longevity.
Uh-huih. You do realize the only reason that publishers bother with these oldergames is that it costs them very little if anything to put it up on steam. Having to actually create somethinga nd provide support for multiplayer.. yeah that's adding cost to the equation. Hence why most games that had multi-player originally are now actually sold as single player where the publisher can't be bothered with the headache.

If you want to get it to work and such, well have at it, but don't expect people to get headaches on your behalf.

Yep that's what I'm saying - for games that already have LAN code there'd be no additional development cost to use them over a virtual-LAN.

Games without LAN-code are going to be a lost cause in that respect, but fair enough.

No headaches intended ;)
Start_Running 2016 年 9 月 2 日 下午 12:03 
引用自 Muut
引用自 Start_Running
Uh-huih. You do realize the only reason that publishers bother with these oldergames is that it costs them very little if anything to put it up on steam. Having to actually create somethinga nd provide support for multiplayer.. yeah that's adding cost to the equation. Hence why most games that had multi-player originally are now actually sold as single player where the publisher can't be bothered with the headache.

If you want to get it to work and such, well have at it, but don't expect people to get headaches on your behalf.

Yep that's what I'm saying - for games that already have LAN code there'd be no additional development cost to use them over a virtual-LAN.

Games without LAN-code are going to be a lost cause in that respect, but fair enough.

No headaches intended ;)
Ecxcept you know, packaging with the virtual lan client.. or creating one. Both of which cost money. And then you have to keep someone around to provide techsupport for it.

You know, the funnything is games that were designed for modem play typically stand a better chance of this incase you haven't noticed.. As said. You want to download hamachi and get it to work. Great. You have friends willing to do the same. or can get a group together on the game's forum. double great. Go for iit. But it's not wiorth the time and money of steam to patch something like that in.
Muut 2016 年 9 月 2 日 下午 2:27 
引用自 Start_Running
引用自 Muut

Yep that's what I'm saying - for games that already have LAN code there'd be no additional development cost to use them over a virtual-LAN.

Games without LAN-code are going to be a lost cause in that respect, but fair enough.

No headaches intended ;)
Ecxcept you know, packaging with the virtual lan client.. or creating one. Both of which cost money. And then you have to keep someone around to provide techsupport for it.

You know, the funnything is games that were designed for modem play typically stand a better chance of this incase you haven't noticed.. As said. You want to download hamachi and get it to work. Great. You have friends willing to do the same. or can get a group together on the game's forum. double great. Go for iit. But it's not wiorth the time and money of steam to patch something like that in.

Indeed - we've already discussed that there'd be cost and support in the feature on Valve's side, but also that those could potentially be offset by the commercial advantages. Whether or not that, on balance, constitutes a 'headache' in implementation would be for Valve to decide.

This is, after all, a suggestions forum!
Start_Running 2016 年 9 月 2 日 下午 4:56 
引用自 Muut
引用自 Start_Running
Ecxcept you know, packaging with the virtual lan client.. or creating one. Both of which cost money. And then you have to keep someone around to provide techsupport for it.

You know, the funnything is games that were designed for modem play typically stand a better chance of this incase you haven't noticed.. As said. You want to download hamachi and get it to work. Great. You have friends willing to do the same. or can get a group together on the game's forum. double great. Go for iit. But it's not wiorth the time and money of steam to patch something like that in.

Indeed - we've already discussed that there'd be cost and support in the feature on Valve's side, but also that those could potentially be offset by the commercial advantages. Whether or not that, on balance, constitutes a 'headache' in implementation would be for Valve to decide.

This is, after all, a suggestions forum!

Commercial advantages? How. Sremember Valve's cut is only 33%.That's it abnd most of us wait until sales to buy ontop of that. So consider that and factor in that they'd need a small team to deal with keeping the feature uptodate, secure, compatible and troubkle shooting the issues for every game that has it... Nope. If it's not worth the trouble for the one making 66% then it's worth even less the trouble for the person Making 33%. Especially when the consumer has several free solutions available if tjhey're willing to let 3 braincels touch for a minute.
Muut 2016 年 9 月 2 日 下午 7:52 
引用自 Start_Running
Commercial advantages? How. Sremember Valve's cut is only 33%.That's it abnd most of us wait until sales to buy ontop of that. So consider that and factor in that they'd need a small team to deal with keeping the feature uptodate, secure, compatible and troubkle shooting the issues for every game that has it... Nope. If it's not worth the trouble for the one making 66% then it's worth even less the trouble for the person Making 33%. Especially when the consumer has several free solutions available if tjhey're willing to let 3 braincels touch for a minute.

As interesting a discussion as this has been, I think it's starting to get a little circular, so perhaps best at this point that we just agree to disagree. ;)

I still think it's a great suggestion, and could be a nice USP for Steam, so +1 to the OP's post!
Alfredox123 2017 年 1 月 28 日 下午 7:27 
i hope valve adds this to steam, i bought a game that uses gamespy for mp and coop play.... meanwhile ill be using evolve (but no one plays this game anyway....)
Blastyr 2017 年 1 月 28 日 下午 8:02 
My two cents: Valve shouldn't add this to Steam.

The proper way to facilitate this within the Steam ecosystem would be for a third party to release a VPN solution as an application on Steam.
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張貼日期: 2016 年 8 月 29 日 下午 1:59
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