The case for Neutral Reviews

[loppantorkel]

I haven't been bothered by this before, but there's a solid argument for an informational, neutral review, that isn't 'good' or 'bad'.

Status quo, with good/bad reviews, can be attempted, but I think people get more and more aware of the issue with a binary review system. 97% review game should be excellent or at least enjoyable, yes? What if it's not for you? Do you leave it a bad review just for the space to inform other players, do you leave another good review or just don't inform them?
I'd be inclined to leave a bad review in absence of a neutral option. There should be a platform to inform players without having to recommend the game, even if it's a decent-good game. Example: Citizen Sleeper, or Inscryption

Early Access games that have been enjoyed but aren't updated as fast as one would hope - a neutral review would allow the players to inform without recommending or down-voting the game. Example: Valheim

Leaving the current binary system as it is can of course be attempted, but we've seen an increase of the 'review bombing' during the years and attempts to rectify it. Why is it becoming more of an issue? Probably because it's one way to affect the score and an attempt to produce a change, and this won't go away, but it's certainly exacerbated by the binary system which forces players to either side to make their voice heard. Attempts to review bomb games won't go away, but the more level headed segment of gamers who might be disappointed may just want to inform others rather than causing more disturbance. Example: CP2077

So what about all the current review scores? Just leave them and the future ones as a Good vs Bad %, and have the neutral ones as a side feature for people interested in another perspective.

I know this isn't a new idea, but it deserves to be revisited.

[Gwarsbane]

Or better idea... people could learn to use the search feature and read all the other topics and continue to post in ONE thread instead of keep making the same threads over and over again. And what makes it even worse is that you know this is not a new idea you just go and make a new thread about it instead of continue one of the latest ones which I think there was yet another new one just within the last few days....

I've said many times, no there does not need to be a neutral review. You are asked, do you recommend or not. Its a simple question, if you can not recommend it, then its a no.

You can explain your yes or no and why its a yes but, or a no but in the actual review part.

[Nx Machina]

If Valve saw value in a mixed, neutral, 5 star, a numerical or percentage rating they would have implemented it BUT they have not and 1 thread or 5k will not change that unless Valve sees value in it.

[Pscht]

OP wrote a novel because he didn't see the "do you RECOMMEND this game yes/no". It is NOT "good/bad", thus no "neutral" is needed.

[Start_Running]

If you leave a negative review in absence of a neutral one , so be it. they are about the same. because in both cases you can't say it's worth recommending.

If a 97% review game should be great?
Uhm M'dude you do realize thats basically a reflection of the game's score among its target audience. A game that has a tight focus on its audience and the tastes of that audience will always do well. You not being a part of that audience are free to give a negative review but don't assume that Overwhelmingly positive means 'GREat game' unless you know you are partr of that games core audience demographic.

An excellent game to a hard core bullet hell afficionado is not going to be a fun game for a casual or someone who is just entering the genre. Say your recommendation, and say why. and thats it. Binary system works pretty well if you don't try to make it say more than it's meant to.

As for early access. again just say yes or no, your reason, and if things change you can change your review.
Neutral just at the end of the day is just another way to say 'No I do not recommend this game' but some what more weasely. Like that person who when you ask them if they can give you a drive they give you a song and dance aboutr how they'd love to but this, that, goat dead and cow fat. Just say yes/no, state your reason and leave it at that.\

And don't interpret reveiew scores as some badge of ecellence. In entertainmeent products theres always a chance that you just won't enjoy it because entertainment in subjective.

[loppantorkel]

A lot of false assumptions and odd analogies made in replies.

The main thing which be against Valve's interest in a Neutral option, is that the majority of the buyers probably are decent people. They'd hesitate to give a game a negative review (yes, people in general, publishers, devs and Valve view the thumbs down not only as 'non recommended product' but also as a negative review) just because they didn't enjoy it very much, even though they understand the game's positive points. This leaves many games with an abundance of positive reviews which drives sales, while opinions that might tone down the positiveness are largely quieted.

It's not censorship in any way, but like in politics - leaving only two options may suppress valid, middle opinions and push fringe views.

Simple is good and I think the current review system has served a very good purpose. However, things change over time. Does the current system work as well as before? Has the scores become more important? Do the review scores drive sales and are they now viewed, in general, as a seal of excellence? Are they being manipulated to a greater degree? Is it being used to push changes? Is it as reliable as before? Can it be trusted by the users? Does it serve the same purpose to the consumers as before?

In my opinion, things have changed over the years and a more nuanced review system would benefit the consumers. A Neutral Review option would allow for a fairer way to review and buy products in Steam.

[[N]ebsun]

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

an informational, neutral review, that isn't 'good' or 'bad'.

There are thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions of reviews to read.. if you don't feel strongly enough about it to give it a "recommended" or "not-recommended" to buy, then that review is 100% useless compared to the rest. I, and everyone else, have a limited time to read reviews so the most useful reviews are the most strongly positive or most strongly negative, if you are in the middle ground you have zero sway so basically no impact on buy / not buy - it would be a waste of time to read it, and all the content of such a review would be covered in every other one anyway.

Give me a recommendation to buy or not buy, then explain why - if you just give info but don't give a recommendation either way, why should I bother reading it ???

[loppantorkel]

Originally posted by Nebsun:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

an informational, neutral review, that isn't 'good' or 'bad'.

There are thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions of reviews to read.. if you don't feel strongly enough about it to give it a "recommended" or "not-recommended" to buy, then that review is 100% useless compared to the rest. I, and everyone else, have a limited time to read reviews so the most useful reviews are the most strongly positive or most strongly negative, if you are in the middle ground you have zero sway so basically no impact on buy / not buy.

Give me a recommendation to buy or not buy, then explain why - if you just give info but don't give a recommendation either way, why should I bother reading it ???

Like a binary review system, your post and opinion lacks any sort of nuance. How do you know "that review is 100% useless compared to the rest." You may be the sort of person who lacks the interest of a neutral review - doesn't make it so for everyone.

I've given good arguments as to why a neutral review option would be good.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

A lot of false assumptions and odd analogies made in replies.

As in not agreeing with your opinion therefore you come to that conclusion.

[loppantorkel]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

A lot of false assumptions and odd analogies made in replies.

As in not agreeing with your opinion therefore you come to that conclusion.

You mean yours explicitly? "Valve hasn't changed it so far therefor won't"? Great discussion material...

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

You mean yours explicitly? "Valve hasn't changed it so far therefor won't"? Great discussion material...

I was referring to yours hence why i quoted it.

To repeat:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

A lot of false assumptions and odd analogies made in replies.

As in not agreeing with your opinion therefore you come to that conclusion.


Discussion - the activity in which people talk about something and tell each other their ideas or opinions: and not an affirmation forum for suggestions hence other opinions not in line with your own.


Another thread on reviews and Valve have not been swayed because the system works for them.

And finally.

Originally posted by FOXDUDE69:

Unfortunatly, Nx Machina is right on this one.

And that was in response to.

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

@ Markus Bailey.

If Valve saw value in a mixed, neutral, 5 star, a numerical or percentage rating they would have implemented it BUT they have not and 1 thread or 5k will not change that unless Valve sees value in it.

[Pocahawtness]

I think it is a great idea and I don't know why Valve refuse to do this one. My guess is that they suppose that most neutral will generally opt for positive rather than negative which has to be a good thing.

[loppantorkel]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

You mean yours explicitly? "Valve hasn't changed it so far therefor won't"? Great discussion material...

I was referring to yours hence why i quoted it.

To repeat:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

A lot of false assumptions and odd analogies made in replies.

As in not agreeing with your opinion therefore you come to that conclusion.


Discussion - the activity in which people talk about something and tell each other their ideas or opinions: and not an affirmation forum for suggestions hence other opinions not in line with your own.


Another thread on reviews and Valve have not been swayed because the system works for them.

And finally.

Originally posted by FOXDUDE69:

Unfortunatly, Nx Machina is right on this one.

And that was in response to.

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

@ Markus Bailey.

If Valve saw value in a mixed, neutral, 5 star, a numerical or percentage rating they would have implemented it BUT they have not and 1 thread or 5k will not change that unless Valve sees value in it.

My earlier replies cover this collection of quotes excellently.

[loppantorkel]

Originally posted by 🤪 Pocahawtness:

I think it is a great idea and I don't know why Valve refuse to do this one. My guess is that they suppose that most neutral will generally opt for positive rather than negative which has to be a good thing.

You're probably correct in this. An assumption I've covered above.

There's the narrative that since the question is: Do you recommend the product? A neutral review would be covered by a 'Not Recommended' review, which in practice is false. In theory, yes, if you don't recommend the product - you can write a 'not recommended' review. Since all - publishers, devs, Valve, steam users - all (yes in general terms) view 'not recommended' as a negative review, we've got positive and negative reviews to view and write. A Neutral Review would be very suitable in this light.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

My earlier replies cover this collection of quotes excellently.

You made one reply (post #5) and i disagree with said opinion as i did with the OP.

Do you recommend this game or not is a question - neutral does not answer the question.

Which goes back to:

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

If Valve saw value in a mixed, neutral, 5 star, a numerical or percentage rating they would have implemented it BUT they have not and 1 thread or 5k will not change that unless Valve sees value in it.

[[N]ebsun]

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

How do you know "that review is 100% useless compared to the rest."

Because it doesn't help anyone decide whether to buy the game or not buy the game - if you don't make a recommendation either way, what was the point ?

Review: "Its a good game, but keeping it neutral"
Potential buyer: "should I buy it ?"
Review: "uhhh... idk lol"
Potential buyer: "???"